Vengeance Paladin

[Taem]

I haven't made one of these since back in 1.08, when there were no synergies. I see now that if I max the synergies Cold, Fire, and Light resist, I will be doing +270% elemental damage respectively, however if I max Vengeance, I'll only be doing +184% elemental damage. If I max the synergies and vengeance, I'll be doing +384% elemental damage, however will be limited in scope in what I'm capable of doing, not to mention, what will my aura be? In theory, the perfect Vengeance paladin would use Conviction, however I've been giving this some second thought. You see, I have a Ber and Ist and my friend said he'd give me his Ber and Mal to make a Infinity (level 12 Conviction) in a polearm for my merc. I find this prospect very exciting and am seriously considering it and maxing Fanaticism instead. Not only will this give me a huge speed boost, but will increase my damage +373% and save me quite a few skill points, enough to take Holy Shield and still eventually someday max all my synergies and vengeance. Unfortunately, I've just spent 2-days leveling my paladin and getting him to level 25 and placing all of my skill points for Conviction before this Infinity option came up, so I'll have to remake my paladin if I choose to go this route. The only thing is I feel he'd be more of a "bastard" build, not really relying on his own skills. Call me sappy, but I don't really like that, however the munchkinism in me really want to maximize :evilgrin: .

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Hammerskjold]

Thoughts? Suggestions?

What's your planned end game weapon? This might be another factor to consider for when a paladin goes avengin'.

[Taem]

What's your planned end game weapon? This might be another factor to consider for when a paladin goes avengin'.

Whatever falls on the floor? LOL, I don't have one currently for a paladin. I got him up to level 42 tonight and have him using a bloodletter, Herold of Zak, Sanders Gloves, Waterwalk Boots, Cathans Armor and Rings, IK Belt, Lore helmet, and a rare sorcie ammy with +15 all resists; on his weapon swap he's got a Ravens Claw. I decided to go with Conviction (I'm currently maxing it first before I do anything else - 24 unused skill points at this point); I tell you, Conviction is a great party aura. My friend is playing a sorceress and is just devastating everything in his path, and he is also providing an enchant for me, and I tell you when your enemies are convicted, a little enchant goes a l-o-n-g way. I have no idea how he'll do in hell, but who care - I'm having fun now :D. For the future, I can see myself wielding a Heavens Light, but whose to say?

[Hammerskjold]

Whatever falls on the floor? LOL, I don't have one currently for a paladin.
I got him up to level 42 tonight and have him using a bloodletter, Herold of Zak, Sanders Gloves, Waterwalk Boots, Cathans Armor and Rings, IK Belt, Lore helmet, and a rare sorcie ammy with +15 all resists; on his weapon swap he's got a Ravens Claw.

Ah ok.

I decided to go with Conviction (I'm currently maxing it first before I do anything else - 24 unused skill points at this point);

One of my paladin who's a zealot-martyr-convictor also has maxed Conviction, but just one point in Vengeance to keep the mana cost down. And it's mostly to deal with phys-immunes. It's sure nice though to be able to not worry too much about AR.

It's certainly an interesting option if you're able to scrounge up the components for a legit 'Infinity'. But maxed Conviction is not shabby either, and imo way more affordable. It does bring up interesting combos and possibilities as you mentioned though, using Fanaticism to make up the difference.

I know you mentioned end-game weapon plan isn't written in stone. But since you mentioned Heavens Light, have you looked at 'Lawbringer' as a possible end-game weapon? (I'm looking at the stat requirement for the base item.) It doesn't have some of the tasty mods of Heaven's Light, but it's not bad at all. It does lack IAS and ED, but the Decrepify CtC and the cold+fire damage is pretty tasty in it's own right. Shameless plug I know, it's one of my favorite weapons.

Or 'Crescent Moon' in an Ancient Sword. It's 'just' an exceptional class but that just means more points for Vitality) if you have or find an UM.

I have no idea how he'll do in hell, but who care - I'm having fun now :D.

Yep. No real use if there's no fun in it.

[Assur]

. I decided to go with Conviction (I'm currently maxing it first before I do anything else - 24 unused skill points at this point);

Conviction is capped at level 25, depending on your +skill gear (Captain's grand charms anyone) you could max out the skill with about 15 points. AKAIK Lower Resist stacks with Conviction, so a triad of Pala/Necro/Sorc (even a mono-elemental) is the absolute killmachine.

[Taem]

Conviction is capped at level 25, depending on your +skill gear (Captain's grand charms anyone) you could max out the skill with about 15 points. AKAIK Lower Resist stacks with Conviction, so a triad of Pala/Necro/Sorc (even a mono-elemental) is the absolute killmachine.

Thanks! This tid-bit of info. really really helped me with my build. Assuming I ever get my "dream" gear, I should be able to hit +10 for offensive auras relatively easily. That extra 5-skill points allowed me Holy Shield. So now I have 15-Conviction, 1-Holy Shield (where it will stay), 1-Vengeance (until I max synergies), 1-Salvation (where it will stay - great party skill BTW), and am slowly maxing my Resists to increase my Vengeance damage. On my dream list is the Guardian Angel armor for its +skill and +block, but the +15% maximum resists will not be necessary with maxed Resists skill, will it? Anyways, I was surprised to see that Vengeance does leech back some mana upon striking - I thought it was all elemental damage - however it is very minimal; I often have to switch to zeal to recoup lost mana.

Well, it's a great build when you've grown bored of everything else. I highly recommend it. And I think it should be good against the Ubers, but have yet to fight one, so I cannot really say.

[librarian]

Heiho,

On my dream list is the Guardian Angel armor for its +skill and +block, but the +15% maximum resists will not be necessary with maxed Resists skill, will it?

you'll gain +10% max resist from hard points in individual Resist skills at sLvl20, but maximum possible is 95% per difficulty, so your natural limit of 75% may gain another 10% from Guardian Angel.

Anyways, I was surprised to see that Vengeance does leech back some mana upon striking - I thought it was all elemental damage - however it is very minimal; I often have to switch to zeal to recoup lost mana.

check out this summary
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...showtopic=50089
you still do the same physical damage you'd do with Standard Attack. Veng's elemental damage is no conversion, but derived from weapon's damage including regular boni to mini/max damage (not on overall physical damage), and adds to Standard Attack damage.

The Ubers have pretty high resists and you can hardly leech from them, this is why everyone's talking about Life Tap wands in that context. I think an Avenger is pretty fragile on his own here. But nevermind, as long as the build is fun to play the Ubers are neglectable.

[Archon_Wing]

My avenger last season used an oath cryptic and that worked quite well. Before that, he was mulling around with a lightsabre and a nord's tenderizer. Since more weapon damage= more vengeance damage, it's basically find the most damaging weapon you can get.

Mana's gonna be an issue if you max vengeance like I did. I used an insight merc to tag this, but if you're gonna use infinity, you'll need to stack some mana charms or rings on. Mana leech doesn't quite keep up, but if you treat your mana pool like a caster this isn't too bad. Also note that an avenger has much more limited crowd control than a zealot, so I suggest a defiance merc and get yourself a decent level holy shield. Don't get surrounded. ;p

[Archon_Wing]

Double posted :/

[Taem]

My avenger last season used an oath cryptic and that worked quite well. Before that, he was mulling around with a lightsabre and a nord's tenderizer. Since more weapon damage= more vengeance damage, it's basically find the most damaging weapon you can get.

Mana's gonna be an issue if you max vengeance like I did. I used an insight merc to tag this, but if you're gonna use infinity, you'll need to stack some mana charms or rings on. Mana leech doesn't quite keep up, but if you treat your mana pool like a caster this isn't too bad. Also note that an avenger has much more limited crowd control than a zealot, so I suggest a defiance merc and get yourself a decent level holy shield. Don't get surrounded. ;p

Yeah, I noticed the crowd control issue right off the bat and got myself a Holy Freeze merc. Defiance was my second choice, however the monsters were just attacking too quickly for me to cope, even with moderate Hit Recovery, so I went with Freeze and have not been disappointed. When I want to get some rapid experience, I cast Enchant on myself and blast away in Arcane or Flayer with a Raven's Claw bow.

On that note, while Enchant may be a great skill in Diablo, I think it's ability to give level 1 characters way over 2k damage is simply broken. I almost feel like I'm cheating when I enchant my characters because of the significant advantage they receive by using it. Honestly, as much as I love the skill for my own personal use, I think it needs to be significantly nerfed! Seriously, there is no need to even bother collecting low level gear anymore; just enter a chant game of your choice (there are always 3+ games up), or enchant yourself if you have 2 computers and multiple cd-keys. A very broken skill IMO.

[Taem]

I f'in hate this game sometimes! I really do. I had 93% Fire, Cold, and Light resist, -24 Damage, and 564 life. A Vampire class which I guess had "fire enchanted" on it, died from my Vengeance + Conviction in 1-hit, and I die less than one second later from his explosion. The council members themselves barely scratched me... no seriously, I didn't even drink one potion while fighting them, but this super wimpy guys fire explosion damage kills me in 1-hit. Why won't Blizzard fix this bug? I've lost enough characters to it by now that I'm beginning to feel cheated! No wonder everyone used hacks in D1 to fix most of the bugs just to play the game... I'm starting to feel the same. If I had known ahead of time that monster had been fire enchanted in a Nightmare game, well I would have just avoided him completely. Fix this bug Blizzard! Jesus... enough already!

[Archon_Wing]

What level were you? 564 life is sorta low. And yea, Blizzard and d2...:(As for merc, I've found defiance mercs to stand up longer than holy freeze for some reason. It may be the brief time it takes holy freeze to activate and some monsters can't seem to be slowed that much. The thing that drew me over is that mercs hired in normal have slightly better stats. It's not much but I still like it.

[Taem]

What level were you? 564 life is sorta low. And yea, Blizzard and d2...:(As for merc, I've found defiance mercs to stand up longer than holy freeze for some reason. It may be the brief time it takes holy freeze to activate and some monsters can't seem to be slowed that much. The thing that drew me over is that mercs hired in normal have slightly better stats. It's not much but I still like it.

I was level 50. No matter, I've set D2 aside for awhile now anyways, and the free time I've gotten back is more than reward. To be honest, dying that way AGAIN got me really, really upset. If I die from stupidity in Hardcore, so be it. If I die from lag in Hardcore, it's upsetting but it happens. If I did because of a computer malfunction, I can yell and kick my computer, but in the end, there was a reason it happened. To die from a bug Blizzard should have fixed eons ago, along with skills not dissappearing on hostile so people can TPPK, I guess I'm growing intolerant of it. It's absoultly ridicilous at this point in time that these bugs have not been addressed and fixed. Even if Blizzard just kept one programmer tinkering away at D2 to fix these bugs and release quartly-patches or even yearly patches... but no. I don't think I'll be playing D2 again for awhile.

[Archon_Wing]

and the free time I've gotten back is more than reward

Pretty much summarizes d2 at this point. Like I've said before, so half-assed at everything. :/ I understand that it's an old game and obviously not a high proirity, but the fix has practically been handled to them. Oh and I just quit as well. Stupidly low drop rates, especially runes, are just discouraging. The amount of garbage that drops is overwhelming and considering that some rare elite uniques can't even compare with their exceptional counterparts makes me wonder why bother? Ok, I won't MF. I'll quest with other people? After all, that's the point of battle.net I guess. But wait, not only do most people not want to quest (which is typical) the chance drops to about zero since it's pretty much overrun by frekaing bots. Do humans actually play this damned game, well I suppose not; insanity tends to set in.

And let's not get started in pub'ing in hc... I've gone over that one quite a few times before.

[Taem]

So I started up again about three weeks ago or so and have been having so much fun doing so. I've realized since reaching Hell that in LOD patch 1.12, this game is less about your skill points and more about the items. I've come to this conclusion after having made several distinct and powerful builds with virtually none of them being able to complete hell in an 8ppl game, let alone solo with average gear, whereas builds with skill points all over the place and no dirrection do perfectly fine with runeworded items. I've even seen BO-shouting Barbarians as their ONLY skill kill monsters with the greatest of ease in 1.12 with the runeworded items. So much of this game now revolves purly around items, its kind of sad. The focus on the individual character classes and what they have to offer is lost with the individual pursuit of "the ultimate gear," or uber killing gear. The only real exception I can think up is the smiter for killing ubers, but with paladin auras on everything, as well as Teleport and other prominate skills, you can be pretty much whatever the hell you want to be, with the right gear.

Having said that, I am having a blast with my Avenger! He is using an Oath Cryptic Sword, Enigma armor, Herold of Zak shield, Highlords amulet, Waterwalk boots, String of Ears belt, Dwarf Star ring, Raven Frost ring, a Lore helmet (for now) and a Torch large charm. I have maxed his resist synergies, put 1 into Salvation, 3 into Vengeance for the extra attack rate, 1 into Holy Shield, and 12 into Conviction. I still need 2-3 more points to get Conviction to 25, but I can't decide what to do with the rest of my points. I can kill almost any monster in act 5 Hell in 2-3 Vengeance strikes, however I run out of mana like it's going out of style - I have to quaff a poiton every 6-8 strikes. Perhaps I could stand to get some mana steal, but I don't mind having blue potions in my belt. My only concern is if I max Vengeance, I'll probbably run out of mana on a "per swing" basis instead of every 6-8 strikes or so, and I'm doing ample damage now. I'm level 79 and figure I can easily make it to 90 before the leveling treadmill becomes too tedious for me. So do I continue investing in Vengeance, or something else? Decisions decisions.

[Occhidiangela]

Having said that, I am having a blast with my Avenger! He is using an Oath Cryptic Sword, Enigma armor, Herold of Zak shield, Highlords amulet, Waterwalk boots, String of Ears belt, Dwarf Star ring, Raven Frost ring, a Lore helmet (for now) and a Torch large charm. I have maxed his resist synergies, put 1 into Salvation, 3 into Vengeance for the extra attack rate, 1 into Holy Shield, and 12 into Conviction. I still need 2-3 more points to get Conviction to 25, but I can't decide what to do with the rest of my points. I can kill almost any monster in act 5 Hell in 2-3 Vengeance strikes, however I run out of mana like it's going out of style - I have to quaff a poiton every 6-8 strikes. Perhaps I could stand to get some mana steal, but I don't mind having blue potions in my belt. My only concern is if I max Vengeance, I'll probbably run out of mana on a "per swing" basis instead of every 6-8 strikes or so, and I'm doing ample damage now. I'm level 79 and figure I can easily make it to 90 before the leveling treadmill becomes too tedious for me. So do I continue investing in Vengeance, or something else? Decisions decisions.

There is a defensive aura known as Redemption. A few dead monsters, you switch to it for a bit, mana solved. It is how I kept my Hammerdin's in mana.

Occhi