Cost of Gems

[Yricyn]

Just doing the math here for a bit, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

30,000 x 3 = 1 perfect square
((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000 = 1 Radiant Square
((((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000) x 3) + 80,000 = 1 Star =

27 Flawless Squares Gems + 54 Tome of Secrets + 500,000g = 1 Star Gem

[Roland]

Just doing the math here for a bit, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

30,000 x 3 = 1 perfect square
((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000 = 1 Radiant Square
((((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000) x 3) + 80,000 = 1 Star =

27 Flawless Squares Gems + 54 Tome of Secrets + 500,000g = 1 Star Gem

3x Flawless + 3 Tomes + 30,000 Gold = 1 Perfect Square
3x Perfect + 6 Tomes + 50,000 Gold = 1 Radiant Square
3x Radiant + 9 Tomes + 80,000 Gold = 1 Star

27 Flawless Gems + 54 Tomes + 500,000 Gold = 1 Star Gem.

Edit:
Typos are fail. Don't know why I didn't see that before. That's what I get for copy & pasting from my Notepad notes.

[Mavfin]

Just doing the math here for a bit, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

30,000 x 3 = 1 perfect square
((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000 = 1 Radiant Square
((((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000) x 3) + 80,000 = 1 Star =

27 Flawless Squares Gems + 54 Tome of Secrets + 500,000g = 1 Star Gem

3x Flawless + 3 Tomes + 30,000 Gold = 1 Perfect Square
3x Perfect + 6 Tomes + 50,000 Gold = 1 Radiant Square
3x Radiant + 9 Tomes + 80,000 Gold = 1 Star

27 Flawless Gems + 54 Tomes + 600,000 Gold = 1 Star Gem.

1 Perfect = 30,000
1 Radiant=(30,000*3) + 50,000 = 90,000+50,000 = 140,000
1 Star = (140,000*3) + 80,000 = 420,000+80,000 = 500,000

Tomes and gems look right already in both posts.

[Kevin]

Just doing the math here for a bit, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

30,000 x 3 = 1 perfect square
((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000 = 1 Radiant Square
((((30,000 x 3) x 3) + 50,000) x 3) + 80,000 = 1 Star =

27 Flawless Squares Gems + 54 Tome of Secrets + 500,000g = 1 Star Gem

3x Flawless + 3 Tomes + 30,000 Gold = 1 Perfect Square
3x Perfect + 6 Tomes + 50,000 Gold = 1 Radiant Square
3x Radiant + 9 Tomes + 80,000 Gold = 1 Star

27 Flawless Gems + 54 Tomes + 600,000 Gold = 1 Star Gem.

Yricyn got the totals right. To break it down another way.

27 flawless + 27 tomes + 270,000 gold = 9 perfect square
9 perfect + 18 tomes + 150,000 gold = 3 radiant square
3 radiant + 9 tomes + 80,000 gold = 1 Star.

27 + 18 + 9 = 54
270,000 + 150,000 + 80,000 = 500,000

[Concillian]

I compiled approximate total cost if you purchase the base gems at 400g each and tomes at 600g each. I actually don't know what the going rate is on these, I was just ballparking it yesterday at work when I didn't have access to the AH.

This is what I got for the out of pocket cost if you just buy the mats + vendor prices for one of each gem, this sets a baseline value for comparison:

1 FL sq = ~33k (plus jeweler upgrade cost = 26k)
1 PF sq = ~153k (plus jeweler upgrade cost = 36k / 62k including previous tier)
1 star = ~ 543k (plus jeweler upgrade cost = 52k / 114k including previous 2 tiers)

Total cost for one star gem including jeweler upgrades is a little over 650k gold.
Total cost of a star gem on the AH was right around 600k, so it's probably worthwhile to make your own so that you get the jeweler upgrades for any future gem combines.

beyond that you need patterns, but here is the cost if you have the patterns:

1 FL star = ~ 1.74 million
1 PF star = ~ 5.42 million
1 RD star = ~ 16.7 million

This gives you an idea on trades. You don't want to buy high gems from the AH, as the 15% AH cut becomes HUGE, so they get a lot of markup. You want to instead find someone to trade with. the 15% cut on a radiant star would require marking up to 20 million to even make a 400k profit.

[Roland]

I compiled approximate total cost if you purchase the base gems at 400g each and tomes at 600g each. I actually don't know what the going rate is on these, I was just ballparking it yesterday at work when I didn't have access to the AH.

This is what I got for the out of pocket cost if you just buy the mats + vendor prices for one of each gem, this sets a baseline value for comparison:

1 FL sq = ~33k (plus jeweler upgrade cost = 26k)
1 PF sq = ~153k (plus jeweler upgrade cost = 36k / 62k including previous tier)
1 star = ~ 543k (plus jeweler upgrade cost = 52k / 114k including previous 2 tiers)

Total cost for one star gem including jeweler upgrades is a little over 650k gold.
Total cost of a star gem on the AH was right around 600k, so it's probably worthwhile to make your own so that you get the jeweler upgrades for any future gem combines.

beyond that you need patterns, but here is the cost if you have the patterns:

1 FL star = ~ 1.74 million
1 PF star = ~ 5.42 million
1 RD star = ~ 16.7 million

This gives you an idea on trades. You don't want to buy high gems from the AH, as the 15% AH cut becomes HUGE, so they get a lot of markup. You want to instead find someone to trade with. the 15% cut on a radiant star would require marking up to 20 million to even make a 400k profit.

Far as I have seen, every "high" gem is selling for a loss on the AH. The buyer pays more than they would if they were to make them, and the seller earns less than they spent making them. It's a completely losing game for both parties, so now I just avoid buying gems on the AH altogether.

[LochnarITB]

A sort of related question:

I don't use the AH. Early on, I sold a minor item for 420g (IIRC) to see how it works and gave up trying to find something useful to buy with that AH system. I had decided I didn't want to use the AH anyway since it goes against my feelings on what Diablo should be. Is it possible to accumulate such quantities of gold without using the gAH? Do the drops go up significantly in Hell III/IV and Inferno? I'm in HII (III?) and there is no way I can see my way to having enough gold to sink it into gems at those rates (if it is even possible to get ilvl 61 ToSs in Hell given the new drop rates).

[Archon_Wing]

It seems to be something to be concerned of when you get perfect gear. With the exception of life on hit, the gains from it are so miniscule. It would seem I'm putting super gems in gear that's worth less than the gem! :p

I only buy gems for the convenience-- don't really want to collect all those mats

[RogueMage]

The net result of Blizzard's grossly inflated gem economy is that the only type of gem that's worth socketing in an item is a flawless square (with the possible exception of a perfect square amethyst in a weapon for LoH). The rock-bottom commodity prices on the AH make anything lower than flawless square worthless trash. And if you have enough gold to afford a higher level gem, you can get a much better return on your investment by shopping AH for a gear upgrade.

[ViralSpiral]

Yeah, that's a plain stupid progression. 16.7 million for one gem isn't even funny. I wonder if they did the math on that at all. I hear 100-250K an hour is about the expected profits in Inferno (I'm assuming this accounts for repairs or so), so we're talking like 63 hours of play per gem? Assuming you have no other uses for your gold in the mean time. For perspective, 16.7 million is probably more than the full upgrade costs of the stash, jeweller, and blacksmith combined, aside from if you bought recipes off the AH. Per gem. There can be only one response to this.


lolwut

[Kevin]

Yeah, that's a plain stupid progression. 16.7 million for one gem isn't even funny. I wonder if they did the math on that at all. I hear 100-250K an hour is about the expected profits in Inferno (I'm assuming this accounts for repairs or so), so we're talking like 63 hours of play per gem? Assuming you have no other uses for your gold in the mean time. For perspective, 16.7 million is probably more than the full upgrade costs of the stash, jeweller, and blacksmith combined, aside from if you bought recipes off the AH. Per gem. There can be only one response to this.


lolwut

And yet they will still be way more common than a non duped zod rune.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, honestly I wouldn't hold the gems against them. They're intentionally end game extra material, though I think the effects need to be buffed a little, otherwise they just make the thing look pretty.

[Concillian]

I'm in HII (III?) and there is no way I can see my way to having enough gold to sink it into gems at those rates (if it is even possible to get ilvl 61 ToSs in Hell given the new drop rates).

Clearing Hell Act III has a lot of monsters.

Especially in the keep basement and the area before Seigebreaker.

Once you get some upgrades and it's not a first play-through, you can kill those parts of Act III pretty rapidly for some solid gold gain, especially with some gold find gear. I'd guess you could net up to 500k an hour depending on your gearing and killing efficiency. People were already doing this in nightmare at about that rate, but supposedly the gold drops in Nightmare difficulty are a little lower now, more like 200-250k range per hour.

The high gems were intended to be something you could eventually get with a lot of time and effort invested. That puts them at requiring 30-40 dedicated hours of concentrated effort per fully upgraded gem.

[Concillian]

The net result of Blizzard's grossly inflated gem economy is that the only type of gem that's worth socketing in an item is a flawless square (with the possible exception of a perfect square amethyst in a weapon for LoH).

That's patently untrue.

High level greens are a HUGE damage increase for crit builds. It's an enormous damage increase for someone with 30+% crit. Enough that your first level 60 weapon can be not so great (but have a socket). Invest in it's gem and see incremental return on your investment. At 30% crit, every +10% crit damage is about 2% total damage increase. Its' not a bad upgrade path as an initial investment... especially because that gem can get moved into your next weapon.

Similarly, for melee Life on Hit is a solid defensive stat that you can incremementally ugprade. Once you get to that top tier of +600 LoH, you have gained signiifcant defense over your basic flawless square at +65 life.

The cost of weapons with modifiers that high are INSANELY high, way over 16 million. You can end up with a solid life on hit weapon by buying a "decent" weapon without the life on hit with a socket and plopping 6 mil down for a +500 life on hit gem. Those gems in weapons are a huge deal.... game changingly good.

In hardcore, where you'll lose the gem eventually, it's a tougher decision, but in softcore, you never lose the gem... it's an investment you will never outgrow.
A 6 mil weapon might get replaced, but a 300k weapon and a 5.7 mil gem? you can throw the weapon away when you upgrade, you still have your gem to move to the next one.

I don't expect people to be decked in radiant stars on other sockets, but for weapons it's a solid investment, IMO.

[Lissa]

The net result of Blizzard's grossly inflated gem economy is that the only type of gem that's worth socketing in an item is a flawless square (with the possible exception of a perfect square amethyst in a weapon for LoH).

That's patently untrue.

High level greens are a HUGE damage increase for crit builds. It's an enormous damage increase for someone with 30+% crit. Enough that your first level 60 weapon can be not so great (but have a socket). Invest in it's gem and see incremental return on your investment. At 30% crit, every +10% crit damage is about 2% total damage increase. Its' not a bad upgrade path as an initial investment... especially because that gem can get moved into your next weapon.

Similarly, for melee Life on Hit is a solid defensive stat that you can incremementally ugprade. Once you get to that top tier of +600 LoH, you have gained signiifcant defense over your basic flawless square at +65 life.

The cost of weapons with modifiers that high are INSANELY high, way over 16 million. You can end up with a solid life on hit weapon by buying a "decent" weapon without the life on hit with a socket and plopping 6 mil down for a +500 life on hit gem. Those gems in weapons are a huge deal.... game changingly good.

In hardcore, where you'll lose the gem eventually, it's a tougher decision, but in softcore, you never lose the gem... it's an investment you will never outgrow.
A 6 mil weapon might get replaced, but a 300k weapon and a 5.7 mil gem? you can throw the weapon away when you upgrade, you still have your gem to move to the next one.

I don't expect people to be decked in radiant stars on other sockets, but for weapons it's a solid investment, IMO.

To show what Conc is talking about, I have a base 28k DPS when not using Sharpshooter and having a +70% crit damage gem in my 700 and something DPS crossbow. As soon as I hit Sharpshooter and let it build, I'm running about 53k DPS (I have a couple items that add in a little more +crit damage, about 20% on top of the 70% from the gem). As you can see, that's a huge jump in damage.

[Mavfin]

There can be only one response to this.


lolwut

And yet they will still be way more common than a non duped zod rune.

Shh, don't confuse him with logic. You'll ruin his consistently negative outlook when comparing D3 to D2, Kevin.

[Roland]

I only buy gems for the convenience-- don't really want to collect all those mats

Are you kidding me? I have over 500 Tomes of Secrets, and I have about half a dozen Radiant Square gems. Tomes fall like rain. The biggest problem I have is running out of Tomes of Jewelcrafting. Even the gems fall fairly often, to the point that gold becomes the only limiter for crafting gems.

[RogueMage]

Similarly, for melee Life on Hit is a solid defensive stat that you can incremementally ugprade. Once you get to that top tier of +600 LoH, you have gained signiifcant defense over your basic flawless square at +65 life.

The cost of weapons with modifiers that high are INSANELY high, way over 16 million.

Sorry, but I think the market has shifted significantly lower. Have you priced level-60 LoH weapons on AH lately? My Demon Hunter currently has over 700 total LoH and I didn't pay more than 50K for any of her items. At high levels, an LoH weapon mod can easily outpace the incremental progression on amethysts, making the socket no longer necessary. That lack of a socket downgrades the AH value of the weapon, making it a bargain compared to an obscenely overpriced gem.

[ViralSpiral]

Consistently negative? Spoken as someone who's never heard me talk about the game off the forum, where negativity is the order of the day. I just don't feel like getting hounded for being a "fanboy" constantly. Your achievements in ignorance once again astound me, Mav. Now go back to your troll cave, the adults are talking.

[Archon_Wing]

I only buy gems for the convenience-- don't really want to collect all those mats

Are you kidding me? I have over 500 Tomes of Secrets, and I have about half a dozen Radiant Square gems. Tomes fall like rain. The biggest problem I have is running out of Tomes of Jewelcrafting. Even the gems fall fairly often, to the point that gold becomes the only limiter for crafting gems.

Really? I have a stack of 30 Flawless square Amethysts and no designs to get the best ones. I could get more by cubing up the lesser ones but I can't be bothered to get Tomes of Jewelcrafting. Those are too expensive on the AH, and farming hell is a waste of time. I did combine a few to get Perfect Star things to put in gear.

For example, I bought the Star Amethyst to put into my weapon for 300 life on hit. It costs 500ish k to make. It costs ~600k to buy. I could run around grabbing 50 more flawless squares , but I just couldn't be bothered especially considering designs and leveling the jeweler more. I don't really planning to get any more star gems since the stat boosts from most of them is too marginal to justify gemming my current gear. These days I'm pissing away 100-200k to equip my enchantress and real upgrades to my gear will cost millions, so 100k extra markup for gems I'll rarely need to use saves me time. I'd rather get upgrades ready now to advance to better places and now that I can comfortably do Act 1/2 with MF and offensive mantras I think that getting the star gem right then was more important.