Diablo 3 is fundamentally broken

[ViralSpiral]

Yeah, in the Meteor/Crit thread, I gave a long analysis on how pretty much every Primary except Electrocute was utter crap for the build and for any less AP-intensive build (this one being ~80AP and having a main attack that costs nearly half that), I'd sooner not use any primary once Ray of Frost with Cold-Blooded was available.

[MongoJerry]

Yeah, in the Meteor/Crit thread, I gave a long analysis on how pretty much every Primary except Electrocute was utter crap for the build and for any less AP-intensive build (this one being ~80AP and having a main attack that costs nearly half that), I'd sooner not use any primary once Ray of Frost with Cold-Blooded was available.

Cold-Blooded only reduces the cost to 12 AP, not to 0 as the game guide suggests, so that won't help you. I'll save my love for Magic Missle - Seeker for posts on the Wizard forums. And, for the Crit/Meteor build, Spectral Blades absolutely rocks for its damage, short range AOE ability, and high life-on-hit and crit proc rates.

[Elric of Grans]

A lot of Wizards do not seem to run Signature Spells in my experience. Then again, my experience is softcore Still, Viral is hardly isolated in his distaste for them, as it is not an uncommon approach. Personally, I still use them, but I also choose to play with Elective turned off; turning it on just seems like easy mode.

[Quark]

Beyond specialized builds that use Signature Spells, Shock Pulse -> Piercing Orb can be used in more traditional builds.

[MongoJerry]

A lot of Wizards do not seem to run Signature Spells in my experience. Then again, my experience is softcore Still, Viral is hardly isolated in his distaste for them, as it is not an uncommon approach. Personally, I still use them, but I also choose to play with Elective turned off; turning it on just seems like easy mode.

I know. It was smegged's use of the "waste of development time" hyperbole that needed to be checked. If you're level 60 and have a good set of critical hit and +AP on crit, you can probably afford to stop using signature spells. I know I was planning to stop using one myself with my Disintegrate wizard build -- until Concillian got me hooked on the Crit/Meteor build, which uses Spectral Blades very well. However, there are lots of uses for the signature spells, as I've found excellent use for all but Shock Pulse in many builds. In addition, Magic Missle - Seeker plus Venom Hydra will probably be my Diablo killer combination for a very long time.

[ViralSpiral]

Yeah, in the Meteor/Crit thread, I gave a long analysis on how pretty much every Primary except Electrocute was utter crap for the build and for any less AP-intensive build (this one being ~80AP and having a main attack that costs nearly half that), I'd sooner not use any primary once Ray of Frost with Cold-Blooded was available.

Cold-Blooded only reduces the cost to 12 AP, not to 0 as the game guide suggests, so that won't help you. I'll save my love for Magic Missle - Seeker for posts on the Wizard forums. And, for the Crit/Meteor build, Spectral Blades absolutely rocks for its damage, short range AOE ability, and high life-on-hit and crit proc rates.

Uhm, yes, but 12/second when your AP regen is > 12/second is free. This can be done easily at high level either via Wizard equipment or Astral Presence. Please don't try to nitpick me when it comes to math. I do it for a living.

[Athenau]

Uhm, yes, but 12/second when your AP regen is > 12/second is free. This can be done easily at high level either via Wizard equipment or Astral Presence. Please don't try to nitpick me when it comes to math. I do it for a living.

Only if none of your other skills consume AP, though. Using RoF means you're halting your regeneration. But I guess if Meteor pays for itself via on AP on crit then it doesn't matter.

[ViralSpiral]

Well I don't use it in the Meteor build, but I was using it with Hydra (15 AP, 15 second duration) and Blizzard (20 or 45 AP, 6/8 second or more duration, gear dependent) both of which recharge more AP than they cost before running out. If you're running 20 AP Blizzards, you can pretty much be firing those near non-stop if you've enhanced your AP regen at all or aren't actiely using RoF at the same time. Even if you have a 12 AP RoF and 8/sec regen from Energy Armour, if you're fighting a single target and only using RoF/Hydra, you can keep RoF going a looong time.

[Archon_Wing]

I can't imagine running without signature spells. They're the best spells for hitting crap from really far away. But I use Blizzard hydra (neither is spammable for more damage) so if I don't use one then I just run around doing nothing a lot. :p

[Occhidiangela]

I can't imagine running without signature spells. They're the best spells for hitting crap from really far away. But I use Blizzard hydra (neither is spammable for more damage) so if I don't use one then I just run around doing nothing a lot. :p

Sounds like my old summoner necro.

[Jaffa Tamarin]

I can't imagine running without signature spells. They're the best spells for hitting crap from really far away. But I use Blizzard hydra (neither is spammable for more damage) so if I don't use one then I just run around doing nothing a lot. :p

I did a thunderstorm-hydra sorceress in Diablo 2. I have done my share of running around doing nothing a lot!

[FireIceTalon]

So a year after this thread died, I figured I post my thoughts on D3 now, in particular regarding the classes and inferno.

The actual gameplay/combat of D3 needn't be discussed, since this was always one of its strong points - even upon release. And with a bit more incentive to party now with the added exp bonuses, established builds on the classes that interact with one another in co-op play, the flow of combat in the game was solid at release, and even better now.

Classes.

The main issue right now in this department is that despite the nerfs to Inferno and it being much easier to purchase upgrades, all the classes pretty much need life steal to some degree when playing on high mp levels. For Barbs, this isn't an issue at all, but for all the other classes it is to varying extents. Wizard probably feels it the most, since Blood Magic is their only skill that offers LS (and a measly 1.5% at that - on Inferno mp 10 this is NOTHING). Now, as a Wiz, I can do MP 10 Inferno pretty efficiently for the most part, but the tough packs my lack of life steal is killing me. I use Blood Magic but its just not enough in many cases. The problem with Wiz in this department is that you can only get LS one slot, your main weapon hand. But if you opt for this, it is not only very expensive, but then you will need a source that has arcane power granted on critical hits - also very expensive. I think Blizz should offer LS on more Wizard items, and buff Blood Magic to at least 3%. The other classes, besides barb, also suffer from this problem though to a lesser extent than Wiz.

DH needs buffs to their DPS imo. Their paper dps is very high, but their effective dps is probably the lowest in the game, and they usually struggle at high mp levels. You rarely see them in MP 8-10 games, because they simply get overwhelmed by the increased mob density. Of course, I dont think mob density should be reduced, but that DH should be buffed some. My DH can practically face tank mobs on MP 5, and can play relatively ok on MP 7....but any higher than that, and it becomes too much. And I have pretty good gear, this class just needs some more toughness.

Monster traits on Inferno.

Still very broken in some areas. Although they have balanced many of the traits since release, there are some that still need work. Right now, the most broken trait is Plagued. This was one of the underpowered traits for a long time and need to be buffed, but Blizz, as usual, went over the top with it, and now the affix is grossly overtuned. It has a multitude of problems - the first and most obvious is the duration - it is WAAAAY too long. I'm not sure how long the pools sit there, but I am guessing it is for a good minute or so, maybe longer. The duration should be no longer than 10 seconds, or about the same as Desecrator. Another problem is the fact monsters can cast it too often, AND it stacks unlimitedly. Perhaps a longer cooldown and max of 2 stacks per pool is in order? Arcane Sentry is also still overpowered, in terms of raw damage. Also, monsters can still cast it right on top of your char, which means insta death even if you have a great armor rating and high resists. This shouldn't be allowed. And it seems like almost every pack has one or both of these traits nowadays, I haven't kept track of how often they are spawning but I'd say they appear on at least half of the elites I encounter, and that is a conservative estimation.

Certain traits not being able to spawn together is also something that still hasn't been looked at. Should arcane really be able to spawn with Horde, Frozen, and Jailer? Fire Chains with Teleport? Or should monsters with native traits, like leapers who are naturally fast, be able to spawn with the "fast" trait? These are things that need to be looked at to balance the game to where it should be.

Please note this isnt a complaint post, just observations I've made in playing many hours on Inferno since this thread was made. The game indeed has come a long way since release, and the improvements to Legendaries, addition of paragon leveling, and monster power settings for Inferno have all made the game alot better. There is still much to be done though, in fixing some of the frustrating mechanics and balancing the game out. Although Legendaries were buffed, it seems like all the classes are locked into using more or less the same items, with slight variations in the slots. Almost all Barbs and Monks use an Echoing Fury for instance. And every class uses Ice Climbers in the boot slot for the most part (Nat's Bloody Footprints are a common alternative, but there isn't much else), a Witching Hour in the belt slot (exception might be Barbs), etc etc. And while I've always liked the skill system, it seems many chars are still locked into using a particular build on high MP levels. Blizz has buffed many skills but so far it has only served to create slight variants of already existing cookie-cutter builds, rather than allowing for new or alternative builds to become viable.

Nightmarish: Completely broken just for the fact it procs way too often.

Lastly, PvP is just horrid still, and I think this is going to be something they will have to fix if the game is to have any long-term playability for many people. PvP was a big reason why alot of people played D1 and D2 for so many years.

My rating of D3 at release: 1/5. It was HORRID.

My rating of D3 now: 3/5. Much better now, and has potential, but lots of work that needs to be done still.

And of course, I wish they would just abandon the AH, increase drop rates, so we can take more pride in our chars when we make a great one. But that is wishful thinking of course.

[Aahzmadius]

Good post. Of course, this being the Internet, I feel entitled to nitpick.

First off, congratulations on reaching Paragon 100! Very nice work.

I agree with your assessment regarding Life Steal. Getting a bunch of Life on Hit is possible, but difficult. And even then, it doesn't always save you because you have to be hitting something-not kiting. I also agree with the fact that DH needs some kind of "effective" DPS buff. Not sure how to accomplish that, but it can probably be done with some skill tweaks.

I think the biggest issue with Plagued is that you can't tell if/when you are standing in more than one pool. Maybe if they eliminated the ability for pools to stack, or gave some kind of indicator like they do with Desecrator, it would be a little more balanced. Nightmarish should not proc via ranged attacks, like Electrified or Mortar-it should be limited to direct physical attacks (or direct ranged magical).

Having said this, I'm somewhat worried that if these mechanics were not in the game, character death would be too rare. I would probably settle for a trade-off of fixing the insta-death mechanics and lowering the life leech possibilities.

I'm actually OK with the build variety at this point. Barbs have at least 2, wizards have a couple, monks at least 2, and multiple varieties for the witch doctor. (Zero for the DH.) That's pretty good, really, when you consider how quickly strategies get shared these days. I'm hoping with the new itemization a few more get added; that's obviously not going to occur until 2014.

Blizzard has pretty much admitted it doesn't like what the AH did to D3; they just don't have a good solution now that Pandora's Box has been opened. I suppose they'll have a chance to adjust this with the expansion. But executing it? I think it will be very difficult.

My opinion is the game is in a good place now, but since I've always disagreed with the title of this thread, best take that point of view with a large grain of salt.

[FireIceTalon]

Thanks man, it was pretty sweet feeling hitting that 100, hehe. That particular game where I got it was probably the most fun I've had on D3 ever. We had an awesome party - Bullyz is very good with his Nirvanva build Monk, and DeathBender is one of the best 0-dog WD's around (he can crit for like 1.5 million dmg if all 4 dogs explode!). The action was very fast, precise, and we just stomped things - even though the run was about 2 hours long it didn't feel like it cause we were just playing so fast. Overall, I'm pretty happy with my Wizard. I want to make a couple more upgrades to her so I can crack the legendary 300k DPS mark unbuffed (I'm at 289k now, 325k with buffs - that last 11k doesn't look like alot but it will be hard cause all the slots are so expensive for me to upgrade now), and get all resists in one more slot just to make her a lil' tougher, but other than that she is pretty complete.

I think tweaking Inferno so that Life Steal wasn't so important is one solution. A lot of people are complaining that the game is already too easy, but it's not about making the game easier, it's just about balancing it. Life On Hit is problematic also because it suffers from diminishing returns on high MP levels, and it really is based on your DPS. If you have really high DPS like I do, LOH is pretty much useless, and you have to use Life Steal. On Wizzie though of course, this is almost impossible. It's why I get annoyed when I hear people say that the "critical mass" build is over powered - it really isn't. Even with my DPS, relatively high vitality, and 750+ all resist (with prismatic on), it is still quite easy for me to die since I have virtually no LS outside of Blood Magic. Now, if I did have the same LS as a Barb, then it is possible a CM Wiz could become over powered, and your concern of char death becoming too rare might become a problem indeed. I don't mind dying to be honest, it is part of the game. What I don't like are the CHEAP deaths (i.e. being vortex into arcane or molten explosions, frozen/jailed with desecrator under your feet, and things like that). Plagued and Arcane TOGETHER is absolute murder for my wiz, though I'm guessing it is for every class. But that has more to do with the traits themselves of course, than it does Inferno. The cheap affixes are almost equally dangerous on MP 3-5 as they are on MP 10, it's just that the mobs take so much longer to kill on the latter. I used to hate Reflect dmg the most but honestly it is nothing now compared to those other two traits. Reflect is dangerous when paired with Shielding or Extra Health, traits which make a fight substantially longer, but usually my Wiz kills them so fast that I dont feel its effects as often. I feel for 0-dog WD's though, who can crit for 1 mill dmg (and to have up to 10% of that reflected back at you? Ouch.) Every now and then it gets me, and I think it is a more dangerous trait based on base monster type. But arcane and plagued are dangerous on ANY pack. And my first thought when I see them is "aaaaah sheeeeeeiiiit". Especially if they have Frozen also - another really nasty trait for CM Wiz.

I would like to see more build variety be viable at high MP levels for Inferno. I know that most classes have a couple each, but it just doesn't seem like alot. I would love to be able to have the option of using a skill like Hydra as my main source of dmg, but as of now you just can't on a high MP level.

Well, there was a time when I very strongly agreed with the thread title. Now, probably not so much, though there are certain aspects (like Plagued) that still are broken hehe. I don't see the AH ever going away, Blizz is making way too much dough from it It was a brilliant way to compensate for the lack of a monthly fee. But I can hardly take the same pride in my chars that I did in D1 Mostly I went along with it because most of my D1 friends moved on to D3, and I wanted to be able to play on high MP levels with them, though alot of them have quit D3 now for this very reason: they don't want to pay 2 win, and I can hardly blame them.

I guess in the meantime I'll continue to play and watch it all unfold. After playing all the classes extensively, I think Monk is my second favorite class behind Wizzy, and will be my focus. Been doing MP 5 with her and trying out different things. I really like the skills, dynamics and how this class works in general.

[Mavfin]

I don't see the AH ever going away, Blizz is making way too much dough from it

March 18, 2014, it's going away. Guess it isn't all about the cash, is it?

[Bolty]

March 18, 2014, it's going away. Guess it isn't all about the cash, is it?

Is it? I had absolutely zero interest in Reaper of Souls because in the end, Diablo III is just an AH game. Now I might at least pay attention to the possibility of buying it.

[Archon_Wing]

A thin slice of hope, but it's just come too late. I understand the game is getting better, but I just found entertainment elsewhere.

I may return someday. Not buying anything Blizzard products atm; if they can make a good show with Sc2 I'll look there first, and maybe then here.

[FireIceTalon]

I don't see the AH ever going away, Blizz is making way too much dough from it

March 18, 2014, it's going away. Guess it isn't all about the cash, is it?

I have to admit that I am stunned. But this is one of those occasions where I am glad to be proven wrong.

[Kurosu]

Seems like Blizzard has been on the right course ever since Wilson was no longer involved with it, but what I've seen from that expansion preview didn't really instill any trust in me.
The numbers on items were bigger, but I fear it's still more of the same and that they haven't addressed the fundamental problems in a proper manner yet, because that would require a complete overhaul of the item system which takes time and effort.

Personally the ARPG I'm looking at is Grim Dawn, but I might get the D3 expansion half a year down the line after release, after reading user experiences and if the new features and changes appeal to me.

[TheHentaiChrist]

I don't see the AH ever going away, Blizz is making way too much dough from it

March 18, 2014, it's going away. Guess it isn't all about the cash, is it?

My understanding is that this was in response to changes in the tax code and how they relate to online currencies and transactions, though I might be mistaken.

Diablo 3 is fundamentally broken but not in the way the OP described. The broken parts of it that were mentioned are just shockwaves in the way it is *fundamentally* broken.

There's an info graphic I saw that really opened my eyes, but I'm on a different computer at the moment... I'll come back and edit.

But, what it essentially comes down to is the effect of having a Primary Stat and having your Weapon's DPS being the primary factor in damage. The result is that there's no point in a barbarian having Int or Dex on anything, so there's no point in having anything but Rubies and Amythest.

So, all your items look basically the same.

They're switching that up a bit with new mods, and that's nice, but I don't think it will resolve the core issues with the mechanics.

i.4cdn.org/v/src/1392516579115.jpg

Really says it all a lot better than I can.