Alas, Auberdine

[MongoJerry]

Hi, everyone! Yes, it's been a long time.

I just downloaded the free version of WoW and played a night elf up to the maximum allowed level of 20. I know all the stuff I'm going to say will be very old news to everyone here, but perhaps the point of view of someone who's been away for 4 years can grant some worthwhile perspective.

But first, before we jump into it, what server are most Lurkers on nowdays? I just picked the first PvP RP server the game gave me (Suramar), but I'm open to starting over at another server.

Here are some key things I saw with just the up to level 20 character:

Things I liked/loved:

1. I *loved* the new priest talent trees and skills. I was just drooling over all of the posibilities. I liked the shorter cast times on spells. I like how Heal is actually useful as a mana efficient spell. I can't wait to use Chastise on a rogue -- but then again, if I saw the rogue talent tree, I probably would start crying, so maybe not.

2. I like how skills automatically increase in power with character level rather than forcing characters to constantly relearn the same skill at a higher level from the trainer.

3. I like the simple spell power stat rather than separating power into damage versus healing. No more people complaining when I walk into a PvP instance wearing +damage/healing gear!

4. I was really amazed about how much Blizzard had changed Darnasus and especially Darkshore. I assume the other starting zones got similar major makeovers as well. I figured that they would have moved way past those starting zones and would have focused exclusively on the high level content. The quests where you get to use non-class skills -- like stomping trolls while riding an ancient or flying on a dragon were fantastic!

5. I liked the darkstalker riders that take newbie characters to distant areas, so they don't have to run so much between quests.

6. I like how the dungeon finder ports you directly into an instance. No more having to wait a half an hour for someone to fly over from the other side of the world to your instance.

7. I like the idea of accomplishments, although I don't yet know if there are any practical benefits with completing certain accomplishments. I've always prided myself on trying to complete every quest and see every zone/dungeon, so four years ago me would have loved this as this is more of an "explorer" personality feature.

8. On a side note, I love leveling a priest during "Love is in the air." The "Enchantress" perfume almost doubles my spell power, so I'm two shotting most normal mobs. It's like being twinked with the Act III extra fast quest mace in Diablo II while still playin Act I.

Indifferent things

1. I wasn't sure how I felt about the minimap showing all quest givers and especially the map showing exactly where you need to go to finish a quest. On the plus side, it obviously makes it a lot easier and faster to complete quests. On the other hand, it takes away the fun of exploring. I'm sure most other people like this feature, but on the RPG personality scale, I'm a high "explorer" type personality, and this kind of cheapens the experience.

Things I didn't like

1. At least in the two Night Elf starting zones, it seemed like the quest lines were more scripted than before. Before, you could walk into a town, pick up six or seven quests and do then in whatever order you chose -- depending on your time, inclination, and whether you were playing with someone else or not. In fact, quests even suggested branches leading to other starting zones. At least with the Night Elf starting zones, though, the quests were rigidly scripted. You'd get one or two quests leading to a specific area and only when you were done with that area would you get quests for a different area. This might be good for newbies, but I hope that this doesn't continue in later zones.

2. The changes in Darkshore were interesting, but I was sad about two changes. They kept the Anya quest in, but when you return the locket, you don't get to see the heartbreaking scene with her and her husband. Sure, the dialogue is there, but you don't get to see it. I always liked that quest and conclusion. Also, I was sad that the fishing quest was no longer there. I always liked leveling up my characters' fishing skill while completing a quest at the same time. *sniff*


Overall, though, I really enjoyed the experience. Blizzard made some good changes while I was away.

[MongoJerry]

Whoops! I forgot the biggest thing I didn't like:

3. I went from level 1 to 20 and completed every quest without ever once fighting an elite mob. No quests needed any partying up of any kind to complete. What's the point of an MMO, if you can solo everything?

[Bolty]

Welcome back to the game, Mongo. After being out so many years, it must indeed seem like a brand new game in many ways.

1. At least in the two Night Elf starting zones, it seemed like the quest lines were more scripted than before.

This is one of the top complaints about Cataclysm, yes. All the zones are now like this. On the one hand, the scripting allows for a very tight storyline progression, and each and every zone in the game now has such a story-based quest linearity - some zones are pretty epic in scope even if they're low-level. Zones you don't want to miss include Stonetalon Mountains (especially as Horde), Redridge Mountains (Alliance), and the Blasted Lands - just imo. On the other hand, you have basically no freedom to deviate from the scripted order, quest-wise. To unlock the later quests in the zone, you have to do everything in a set order.

What you'll also find is that you will quickly outlevel zones, leaving you with a choice: do I keep playing this zone to complete the storyline of quests, even if the quests have gone grey to me and grant hardly any exp, or do I ditch this zone and move on?

You'll find little nods to old quests here and there, even if the old quest was removed. Little joke snippets to those who were there before, so to speak. For example, an NPC will start saying a line from an old quest and stop himself midway. It's cute.

1. I went from level 1 to 20 and completed every quest without ever once fighting an elite mob. No quests needed any partying up of any kind to complete.

This is the new norm, now. You can solo everything up to level 85. They've even gone back to the old quests in Outland / Northrend and tuned them down for solo play. The reasoning is simple - having quests that require a group is pointless if you can never find a group to do them. It's not Vanilla WoW anymore; people just want to get to max level immediately because they've seen it all before. It's a consequence of the game's age.

By the way, it's not just the starting areas that have been redone. Every single zone has been revamped in full, with much more fleshed out and coherent storylines (but very linear). Zones that were previously Alliance are now Horde, zones that were previously Horde are now Alliance, and neutral ones have also shifted back and forth. The whole game will seem familiar - and yet brand new, which was their aim. You'll keep getting surprised all the way up to Outland (level 60). Outland and Northrend weren't redone, but I don't think you've seen Northrend anyway.

Oh, last of all,

But first, before we jump into it, what server are most Lurkers on nowdays?

Terenas for <Lurkers> Horde, Stormrage for <Lurkers> Alliance. Both aren't PvP servers, though - not sure how important that is for you.

[Sir_Die_alot]

If you're looking for RP on a pvp RP server you're a few years too late. You can still find it on a few but you will have to actively look. Sadly they don't even enforce naming restrictions anymore. They were good fun for awhile since people focused on the fun aspects of pvp not the best ways to grief another player. There was actually some doubt as to if there was going to be a fight if you saw the opposite faction. The tension was way more fun than "its red its dead." I also remember organized world raids on the one I was on, I think the biggest we filled 3 raids on both sides.

As you have noticed though a lot of the community is gone from warcraft. Server transfers mean people move on and off servers so freely there are new faces all the time, and the dungeon finder means getting to know new people isn't necessary in order to do pre-raid content. I think the worst is the luck of the draw buff and satchels encourages people to group with strangers. I think Blizzard was a little too effective in breaking up the cliques that often formed, then encourages them in raiding with 10 mans.

[shoju]

10 man raiding is a huge success for someone like me. I hated 25 man raiding in TBC, and was incredibly happy when <Lurkers> Terenas went 10m for WotLK. If the game would have stayed with 40 man, or even 25 man, I know for a fact I wouldn't be playing anymore.

[LavCat]

I always liked leveling up my characters' fishing skill while completing a quest at the same time. *sniff*

You should love the fishing dailies! Less so after a couple years.

If you return to Tichondrius I'd be glad to give you the GM back for lurking loungers.

[MongoJerry]

If you return to Tichondrius I'd be glad to give you the GM back for lurking loungers.

Thanks, Lav. There are too many bad ghosts and memories on Tichondrius. No, the people were fine -- just my own demons and not the in-game kind. I think I'll restart on the Alliance this time, and it's OK if it's not a PvP server, because I can always PvP in the Battlegrounds.

This is the new norm, now. You can solo everything up to level 85. They've even gone back to the old quests in Outland / Northrend and tuned them down for solo play. The reasoning is simple - having quests that require a group is pointless if you can never find a group to do them. It's not Vanilla WoW anymore; people just want to get to max level immediately because they've seen it all before. It's a consequence of the game's age.

Too bad. I never had trouble getting people to party up with me for elite quests even in sparsely populated areas, but that was because I was patient and knew how to grind out non-elite quests while waiting for groups to form. Those were the most fun quests to me -- to do quests that 99% of the WoW population didn't do. It was always especially gratifying whenever someone in the group said something like, "Wow! I didn't even know this existed!" Again, that's a function of my "explorer" personality.

As you have noticed though a lot of the community is gone from warcraft. Server transfers mean people move on and off servers so freely there are new faces all the time, and the dungeon finder means getting to know new people isn't necessary in order to do pre-raid content. I think the worst is the luck of the draw buff and satchels encourages people to group with strangers. I think Blizzard was a little too effective in breaking up the cliques that often formed, then encourages them in raiding with 10 mans.

Yeah, I'm kind of worried about this. Some of my favorite things to do was to run in a few PUGs, find people who I liked playing with, "friend" them and use them as a pool of potential partymates for later dungeon crawls. So, in addition to guildmates, I would have 15-20 people on my friend list that I could pull from at any time. But I'm guessing that you can't chat with people on another server or likely friend them, so this aspect of the game is gone.

Plus, I noticed that the dungeons seem really easy now. I ran through several random dungeons last night and even though several of the groups were "underpowered" according to the level of the dungeon, we were cutting through the instance like a hot knife through butter. I mean, I was in a group of high teens running through Wailing Caverns, which in the old days would have meant a slow crawl, and we didn't stop moving. Heck, I was the only healer, and I didn't have to stop to drink once!

I say again, what's the point of an MMO when you don't have to party up with people to overcome a challenge? Oh, well.

---

Quick question: It might be a few weeks before I pony up the money to buy Cataclysm. Other than the coolness factor, will I end up regretting it later on, if I don't make a Worgen priest versus, say, a Night Elf priest?

[MongoJerry]

Nevermind. I sprung for the full edition today. The Worgen starting zone is really cool. I'm up to level 7 right now. However, I think I'm going to play human to start with. The racial bonuses look pretty good. It's nice to know that if I regret the choice when I'm level 85, I can pay $25 to change races. That was a nice idea of Blizzard's.

[LavCat]

Nevermind. I sprung for the full edition today. The Worgen starting zone is really cool. I'm up to level 7 right now. However, I think I'm going to play human to start with. The racial bonuses look pretty good. It's nice to know that if I regret the choice when I'm level 85, I can pay $25 to change races. That was a nice idea of Blizzard's.

If you were looking for a twelve step program you may have come to the wrong place.

[Bolty]

I'm also starting to feel a little dirty here, like I'm that friend of a former alcoholic who's always offering him a drink. "One can't hurt!"

Ugh.

Mongo, if you're concerned about the difficulty, stop now. WoW has been severely dumbed down over the years and is significantly easier than it used to be. 5-man dungeons are designed around the expectation that they should take roughly 30 minutes to complete and not pose too great of a challenge. You're old school, so you remember the days of:

"Hey, let's run Blackrock Depths all the way through!"
"Awesome idea. Let's meet Saturday at 1:00 PM; clear your afternoon schedule. This'll be epic!"

If you're looking for that still, move on.

Gosh, just wait until he discovers LFR.

[Taelas]

The BattleTag system that is coming up will let you 'friend' people on other servers, much like how Real ID friends work now (except you won't be giving your real name and e-mail to total strangers).

[MongoJerry]

Well, Neriad is up to level 19. She finished Elwynn Forest and Westfall completely. Elwynn Forest obviously didn't change very much, but I liked the changes to Westfall. The joke of the couple having their wagon broken for five years was funny. More than that, though, I like that they "flattened' Westfall out. Westfall and Redridge used to bug me, because they both had huge level ranges on their quests. It was like you had to go back and forth between them if you wanted to get all the quests before they turned grey on you. The linear storytelling didn't bug me too much, because I guess I liked the story. I was thrilled to see that the hidden /chicken quest and the Captain Sanders treasure quest series were still in the game. I couldn't figure out why the undead section of the entrance to the Deadmines was still in the game, though. I couldn't find any quest for that area, and when I cleared it out, no quest starting item dropped. It would have made sense if the ghost at the lighthouse had a quest for that area.

Incidentally, while I thought Westfall was fine, new Darkshore >>> new Westfall.

Redridge is going to be interesting, because I'm already starting to get ahead of the level curve. Neriad just finished the three corners quests and is now in Lakeshore and she's already level 19. Of course, a couple levels were probably due to a bunch of Stormwind running around quests and some holiday quests, so that's not really a fault of the zones.

---

Mongo, if you're concerned about the difficulty, stop now. WoW has been severely dumbed down over the years and is significantly easier than it used to be. 5-man dungeons are designed around the expectation that they should take roughly 30 minutes to complete and not pose too great of a challenge. You're old school, so you remember the days of:

Are the 10-person raids tough at least? That's actually what I'm looking forward to eventually, although I'm having fun seeing all the changes as I level up.

[shoju]

10 player raiding is a great time. most of the time, it is similar in difficulty to 25 man. There have been some times where it is just obviously easier, or more difficult.

Terenas (horde) is all 10m raiding, and I love it. I love that it feels like me a group of my friends are beating things. 10m is big on personal accountability too.

[MongoJerry]

Oh, my God. The guild level bonuses must be amazing, because I keep getting spammed non-stop from people inviting me to play in their guild, even though they have no idea who I am. As far as they know, I could be a noob 10-year old playing for the first time.

[Sir_Die_alot]

Are the 10-person raids tough at least? That's actually what I'm looking forward to eventually, although I'm having fun seeing all the changes as I level up.

To help out the casuals who didn't even see Naxxramas at 60, and missed varius other content due to difficulty. There is now normal mode which is fairly easy and can be done with the previous tier's item level with some effort. And heroic modes which can be quite challenging even for geared players.

[MongoJerry]

I finished Redridge and most of Darkshire, and I enjoyed the new Redridge very much. I especially liked the quest where you had to stealth in, rescue the prisoners, and then blow up the buildings. It was fun to be a rogue for a moment. Darkshire didn't seem to change very much, but I was happy that Stitches was still in the game -- albeit much lower level and appearing directly in town rather than walking down the road. I didn't mind that change though.

I also had a very enjoyable time with a pug group last night. After a couple false starts with some not so great pugs, I got in one group where we got along so well that we ended up running four more random dungeons after the first. People who roll need on items they don't really need don't know what they're missing.

One thing I really like about the new WoW is that I don't mind collection/kill quests so much. The drop rates of the collection quests are good. No more "collect 10 of X" where the drop rate is 1 in 3, so you spend a half an hour working on one stupid collection quest. Also, I noticed that the kill quests are no longer so specific. Rather than "kill X number of Y and W number of Z," they usually just say "kill X number of the general type Y mobs." It makes it a lot easier and frankly less annoying when you can just walk into the appropriate area and kill whatever happens to be there rather than hunt all around for the specifc type of mob.

I am liking Shadow Word: Death. Also, the glyph that immobilizes mobs when affected by Psychic Scream rocks. Now, I can use Psychic Scream in an instance or outdoor PvE without having to worry about dragging every mob in the area to me. It won't be so hot for PvP, but I can switch it out later, when I'm ready.

Off to the Southern Barrens! I finished the Northwatch Hold part last night. I'm really looking forward to Thousand Needles when I'm ready.

[Bolty]

One thing I really like about the new WoW is that I don't mind collection/kill quests so much.

A few years back they implemented an "intelligent" tracker to collection quests. When you start killing mobs that drop what you need for a quest, the drop rate can be just as insanely low as it was back in vanilla for some of those brutal quests.

However, each mob you kill increases the odds that the next one will drop the quest item you're looking for. While the exact statistics are unknown, Blizzard confirmed this is how it works now. It helps to avoid the possible RNG of spending hours to get a single quest done.

I'm really looking forward to Thousand Needles when I'm ready.

Have you seen the place lately? Don't want to give away any plot spoilers, but look out.

[shoju]

Thousand Needles if far and away the single greatest Zone that they redid, with Badlands second, and Blasted Lands a Close Third.

I'm not sure about for alliance, but for Horde, Swamp of Sorrows of a Freaking AWESOME quest line incorporating old NPC's from the zone.

In Badlands, you get to punch Deathwing, and fly on a chopper, and have a tearful moment with a dragon.

[MongoJerry]

I finished the Southern Barrens and Dustwallow Marsh yesteday. The Southern Barrens was fun. This was the first time I missed playing on a PvP server, though, because I'll bet that on a PvP server, the SB is a *real* battlezone. I still had a lot of fun, however. I liked the joke about the Taurens always trying to blow up the dwarf's plane, and I also liked the search and rescue quest in Bael Modan.

I then moved on to Dustwallow Marsh, and I loved it. DWM used to be a favorite of mine, because ironically so few people went there -- and sometimes on a PvP server, you just want a break and to be left alone to quest. DWM had a lot more quests than many people realized, but the quest givers were so spread out that if you didn't know where to go, you wouldn't realize just how much was there.

And, yet, DWM was incomplete. It was like they got half-way through development of the zone and said, "We have to move on to other zones -- the release date is coming!" Well, it looks like they finally went back and finished the zone. Almost all of the old quests were there plus another, oh, 30+ additional quests. We finally found out who burned down the Shady Rest Inn. Yay! (However, I was hoping for a better answer than "a bunch of Taurens"). I got the "completing 60 quests" achievement in DWM before even stepping into Mudsprocket where another 8-10 quests were given.

Near the end of Neriad's adventures in DWM, the dailies reset on the server, so I had her run around completing all of the Love is in the Air dailies. In addition, her herbalism hadn't kept up with her character level, so I took her to some lower level zones to level up her herbalism. Plus, I had her do a few archaeology digs as long as she was in the area. She ended up getting 3/4ths of a level of experience without killing a single experience giving mob!

Thousand Needles if far and away the single greatest Zone that they redid, with Badlands second, and Blasted Lands a Close Third.

Yikes! Neriad is already level 43 and just starting Thousand Needles. I suspect that by the time she's done with TN (plus any dailies along the way), she'll be too high of a level for the Badlands. I'm just going to have to hit it later with an alt character. Oh, well. That's something to look forward to. I'm thinking Neriad will finish TN, run several random dungeons (her equipment could use a big upgrade), hit the Blasted Lands, and then jump through the Dark Portal.

[shoju]

I promise you, punching deathwing is very much worth the 5-10 minutes it takes for the self contained questline at any level. I did it on my 85, just because It was Punching Deathwing in the FACE!

I wont say anymore. But man.. that was so worth it.