Soooo....Mass Effect 3

[Lissa]

lol



Today's Extra Punctuation:

But I doubt the fanbase of Mass Effect were dismayed because they wanted an appropriate ending to the story. Rather, they wanted some kind of appropriate closure for the many-storied and I would argue unnecessarily lengthy process up to this point. Perhaps some epilogue where we get to see what all the characters we met along the way got up to after the events of the series, which I imagine would be easier if they hadn't pretty much all been killed off. I've been given to understand that Bioware are talking about changing the ending under the massive pressure from the idiot fanbase, and I hope like hell they're just talking about doing something like that, an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Because it would set a horrible precedent if they're serious about actually changing the ending in line with some kind of democratically agreed upon alternative, rather than merely expanding or adding to it. I'm not as incensed about this concept as Moviebob has been on Twitter lately, but I can definitely say it's a bad idea. Because if it's established that the creators of a story can be pressured by constant browbeating by the audience, then the sanctity of the creator's original intention is made meaningless. The series will effectively have no ending, just a big gap with the words "Audience: Fill In Your Preferred Ending Here". This may be a time of politically correct inclusion of all points of view, but sooner or later the cockheads of the world are just going to have to accept that there are people who know better than them. You know. People who don't have cocks for heads. (emphasis added)

Well, there are now rumors (I haven't seen confirmation as yet), that people inside BioWare say that the ending is as it is because it was rushed out. There is commentary that Hudson and a couple others said that there was s'posed to be more commentary between Sheppard and the Star Child. So, it's possible (supposition on my part) that they did have an ending, didn't like it, tried to do a new ending, ran out of time, and shipped which blew up in their faces.

Also, looking at the DLC character, in my mind now, they were lying that they worked on this in the midterm and then added because they had time. Typically with the other DLC characters like Zaeed and Kasumi, there wasn't much interaction between those two characters and the other normal characters in ME 2 (showing that there were truly seperate from the story). The DLC character for ME 3 has a lot of interactive dialogue with the other squad members (one that is incredibly humorous with Tali - "emergency induction port!" the new multipass) and even other NPCs which Zaeed and Kasumi never had (the only Zaeed/NPC intereaction, outside of the loyalty mission, I can think of is if you took Zaeed to get Garrus in ME 2 and when talking with the Blue Suns, the head of Omega's Blue Suns had a short chat with Zaeed). Is the DLC character needed to complete the game, no, but you can definitely tell that it was probably removed from the main game, and if it was truly an after setup, they pulled in a lot of voice actors for that one DLC character.

[Quark]

Also, looking at the DLC character, in my mind now, they were lying that they worked on this in the midterm and then added because they had time. Typically with the other DLC characters like Zaeed and Kasumi, there wasn't much interaction between those two characters and the other normal characters in ME 2 (showing that there were truly seperate from the story). The DLC character for ME 3 has a lot of interactive dialogue with the other squad members (one that is incredibly humorous with Tali - "emergency induction port!" the new multipass) and even other NPCs which Zaeed and Kasumi never had (the only Zaeed/NPC intereaction, outside of the loyalty mission, I can think of is if you took Zaeed to get Garrus in ME 2 and when talking with the Blue Suns, the head of Omega's Blue Suns had a short chat with Zaeed). Is the DLC character needed to complete the game, no, but you can definitely tell that it was probably removed from the main game, and if it was truly an after setup, they pulled in a lot of voice actors for that one DLC character.

All games have time between going for certification and being released. This is dead weight time - you can't add anything to the disk, or else certification has to restart. You could work on a 0-day patch, or DLC if you wished.

Javik was originally written in, but they cut him due to time constraints in finishing his mission and interactions. This is why his fight data is on disk, but the interactions and mission are DLC and unlock him. I think he should have been like Zaeed - free for all new games, can pay to get him used.

With the collector's edition I got him anyway, but getting base edition it's debatable at best if he's worth the purchase. Basically depends on if you want to see someone who completely defies Liara's expectations.

[Lissa]

Also, looking at the DLC character, in my mind now, they were lying that they worked on this in the midterm and then added because they had time. Typically with the other DLC characters like Zaeed and Kasumi, there wasn't much interaction between those two characters and the other normal characters in ME 2 (showing that there were truly seperate from the story). The DLC character for ME 3 has a lot of interactive dialogue with the other squad members (one that is incredibly humorous with Tali - "emergency induction port!" the new multipass) and even other NPCs which Zaeed and Kasumi never had (the only Zaeed/NPC intereaction, outside of the loyalty mission, I can think of is if you took Zaeed to get Garrus in ME 2 and when talking with the Blue Suns, the head of Omega's Blue Suns had a short chat with Zaeed). Is the DLC character needed to complete the game, no, but you can definitely tell that it was probably removed from the main game, and if it was truly an after setup, they pulled in a lot of voice actors for that one DLC character.

All games have time between going for certification and being released. This is dead weight time - you can't add anything to the disk, or else certification has to restart. You could work on a 0-day patch, or DLC if you wished.

Javik was originally written in, but they cut him due to time constraints in finishing his mission and interactions. This is why his fight data is on disk, but the interactions and mission are DLC and unlock him. I think he should have been like Zaeed - free for all new games, can pay to get him used.

With the collector's edition I got him anyway, but getting base edition it's debatable at best if he's worth the purchase. Basically depends on if you want to see someone who completely defies Liara's expectations.

Yeah, I got the collector's edition as well. But it just shows he is definitely tied in with the other NPCs which you didn't see with either Zaeed or Kasumi.

And his interaction with Tali is soooo much better than the Liara interaction.

[Tuftears]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archi...-like.aspx

Bioware fans protesting the endings arranged to have 400 cupcakes with A, B, and C delivered to Bioware. Read above article to find out what came of this gesture.

[[wcip]Angel]

Well played

[[wcip]Angel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOqHUa2LfNY - Love the omni guitar

Another good article on the ending and fan entitlement.

This quote isn't representative of the view in ther article, but it's the argument I identify with the most.

Over the past decade in television, we’ve seen a creative medium come into its own and take some bold leaps forward, but there’s still some room to grow. I think after The Sopranos--or, more specifically, after Twin Peaks--I think a lot of TV storytellers became enamored with this notion that TV writing can be an art and I can be an artist, and I can have my own show and tell my own story and it’s my story, my world, my rules, and I’m going to tell you a story and you’re going to listen to it, and you’re going to follow it, and if I bring you to a certain end that is maybe not necessarily a happy ending or the ending that you want, it’s still my story. It has to be my story if it has any artistic integrity..

[Lissa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOqHUa2LfNY - Love the omni guitar

Another good article on the ending and fan entitlement.

This quote isn't representative of the view in ther article, but it's the argument I identify with the most.

Over the past decade in television, we’ve seen a creative medium come into its own and take some bold leaps forward, but there’s still some room to grow. I think after The Sopranos--or, more specifically, after Twin Peaks--I think a lot of TV storytellers became enamored with this notion that TV writing can be an art and I can be an artist, and I can have my own show and tell my own story and it’s my story, my world, my rules, and I’m going to tell you a story and you’re going to listen to it, and you’re going to follow it, and if I bring you to a certain end that is maybe not necessarily a happy ending or the ending that you want, it’s still my story. It has to be my story if it has any artistic integrity..

Problem then comes, if people don't like it, do you think a producer is going to let you write another story? Look no further than M Night Shamalaya. Look how far he fell because of Signs and follow on projects. Everyone agrees that the twist to the end of Sixth Sense was pretty awesome and tied in well with the rest of the movie, but after that, his twist endings have gotten him into more trouble than not. So the same comes with writers in other media, if you do something your consumers don't like for an ending, how do you think future producers are going to give you a job if they can expect the same kind of situation where they (the producer) ends up losing consumers because of "your" story. Why do you think people bitch at George Lucas about Star Wars? Because he has this attitude about it being his story. A writer has to realize that if they make a story that involves the consumers, ie fans, as much as some stories do, it's also their story too as has been stated by some Star Wars fans. The only thing Lucas has going for him is he is the producer of his movies, so he can tell the fans to toss off, but at the same time, he also ends up losing fans as well. No producer is going to let you continue to write a story your way if it ends up costing them, the producer, money because your attitude drives people away.

[Jester]

Problem then comes, if people don't like it, do you think a producer is going to let you write another story? Look no further than M Night Shamalaya. Look how far he fell because of Signs and follow on projects. Everyone agrees that the twist to the end of Sixth Sense was pretty awesome and tied in well with the rest of the movie, but after that, his twist endings have gotten him into more trouble than not.

Every M. Night Shymalan movie, with the exception of the Lady in the Water, has made plenty of money. Producers care about profit, not whether you think their endings are bullshit. (Hey, there's even a song about this very phenomenon.) He has also self-produced everything since Unbreakable. He has a big-budget movie coming out in 2013 with Will Smith in it.

So, why is it again that he's not going to get to write more stories? Or do we, in fact, need to "look further" than M. Night Shymalan?

-Jester

[Lissa]

Problem then comes, if people don't like it, do you think a producer is going to let you write another story? Look no further than M Night Shamalaya. Look how far he fell because of Signs and follow on projects. Everyone agrees that the twist to the end of Sixth Sense was pretty awesome and tied in well with the rest of the movie, but after that, his twist endings have gotten him into more trouble than not.

Every M. Night Shymalan movie, with the exception of the Lady in the Water, has made plenty of money. Producers care about profit, not whether you think their endings are bullshit. (Hey, there's even a song about this very phenomenon.) He has also self-produced everything since Unbreakable. He has a big-budget movie coming out in 2013 with Will Smith in it.

So, why is it again that he's not going to get to write more stories? Or do we, in fact, need to "look further" than M. Night Shymalan?

-Jester

I think the facts about how much his movies make after the first weekend, and overall, (exception here being Sixith Sense) shows how bad his writing/directing is. Follow the links and you'll see how bad he's been doing. Hint, he doesn't do very well. It's typically only due to world wide release that he makes any money (and he's actually bombed serveral times on his last few films).

So yes, if you end up losing money, you won't be writing further unless you can produce it yourself (and most people in the entertainment industry can't).

[Jester]

I think the facts about how much his movies make after the first weekend, and overall, (exception here being Sixith Sense) shows how bad his writing/directing is. Follow the links and you'll see how bad he's been doing. Hint, he doesn't do very well. It's typically only due to world wide release that he makes any money (and he's actually bombed serveral times on his last few films).

So yes, if you end up losing money, you won't be writing further unless you can produce it yourself (and most people in the entertainment industry can't).

I don't understand what "only due to world wide release" means to the argument. What does a producer care if he earns it in the US or not? If he was losing money, that would be different, but he isn't. Check the full numbers individually for each link - every last one of those movies except The Lady in the Water has made lots of money.

Regardless, he *is* making movies. Still. With A-listers and big budgets. So, whatever your priors, his hackneyed crap is still being made. Thus, his example does not serve your argument at all, let alone as a one-shot kill.

-Jester

[Jabberwolky]

are any of you guys playing multi, if so whats your handle. It would be cool to spark up some multi time with lurkers.

[Lissa]

are any of you guys playing multi, if so whats your handle. It would be cool to spark up some multi time with lurkers.

PJ listed his earlier in the thread, I'm playing as Tahapenes.

[Jabberwolky]

my id is BoboDM

[Lissa]

I think the facts about how much his movies make after the first weekend, and overall, (exception here being Sixith Sense) shows how bad his writing/directing is. Follow the links and you'll see how bad he's been doing. Hint, he doesn't do very well. It's typically only due to world wide release that he makes any money (and he's actually bombed serveral times on his last few films).

So yes, if you end up losing money, you won't be writing further unless you can produce it yourself (and most people in the entertainment industry can't).

I don't understand what "only due to world wide release" means to the argument. What does a producer care if he earns it in the US or not? If he was losing money, that would be different, but he isn't. Check the full numbers individually for each link - every last one of those movies except The Lady in the Water has made lots of money.

Regardless, he *is* making movies. Still. With A-listers and big budgets. So, whatever your priors, his hackneyed crap is still being made. Thus, his example does not serve your argument at all, let alone as a one-shot kill.

-Jester

Point being, and you missed it from the first post, unless you produce yourself (which he is), you're not going to get anyone willing to finance you if people don't care for your stories. Did you totally miss that his last three films bombed horribly? He lost money in all three of the last films in total gross. Take a look at the difference between what he made in total money from Sixth Sense vs. what it cost and then look at his last three films in the total money made and what each cost. He's been on a downward trend since Signs. If it weren't for the fact that he's producing himself, he'd not be making movies at all.

You said it yourself, and I said it in my first post, if the consumers don't like your stories, unless you produce yourself, you will not find a producer to take a risk on your stories because you won't make them money because the consumers don't like your stories. Most writers/directors cannot produce themselves, so you better have a track record of stories people like in order to get producers to let you tell your stories. So anyone like Hudson right now needs to take a note of the kind of backlash that is coming from an ending of entertainment media. Why else do you think BioWare is back pedaling right now on the ending of ME 3? The ending of ME 3 is costing them potential future dollars and they know they have to fix that so EA doesn't step in and take tighter control.

[Pesmerga]

Eh, go figure. I had no particular issue with the ending. Sure, I would have liked it explained who my squadmate from the last mission got on the ship, or some sort of Epilogue a few years from the ending. Or my Shepard to have survived. But hell, I enjoyed it. Enough to want to play through the series again.

[Jester]

Did you totally miss that his last three films bombed horribly? He lost money in all three of the last films in total gross.

How could I "totally miss" something that's not even true?

Devil: $10 million budget, $63 million gross.

The Happening: $60 million budget, $163 million gross.

The Last Airbender: $150 million budget, $320 million gross.

Take a look at the difference between what he made in total money from Sixth Sense vs. what it cost and then look at his last three films in the total money made and what each cost. He's been on a downward trend since Signs. If it weren't for the fact that he's producing himself, he'd not be making movies at all.

This doesn't even make any sense. The trend is irrelevant. Orson Welles was on a downward trend since Citizen Kane, but he still got to make Touch of Evil. The Sixth Sense was a huge breakout blockbuster hit. Not surprising that he hasn't topped it.

If you want to say that "you have to listen to your consumers, or you'll lose money," then I agree - but you need an example that actually works. Shymalan is not that example.

-Jester

[NiteFox]

Obligatory spoiler warnings.

Eh, go figure. I had no particular issue with the ending. Sure, I would have liked it explained who my squadmate from the last mission got on the ship,

I pretty sure that your squadmates don't actually accompany you with the assault on the conduit; I sure as hell didn't see Garrus and James among the soldiers during the suicide run, just Anderson and a bunch of mooks. Likely when all things went to hell it's unlikely that they'd remain to guard a rear line in a warzone so they returned to the Normandy at the soonest opportunity.

We actually have no idea how much time passed due to two events: Shepard passing through the conduit and waking up on the Citadel, and Shepard passing out after Hackett's last order before waking up next to the Catalyst. The space battle outside seemed to have died down significantly in both scenes where it should be obvious (Shepard and Anderson admiring the view after offing TIM and the Catalyst's long infodump), so it's likely that the whole battle had been written off. The alien fleets are unlikely to remain holding a line when they could just return to their own home systems and prepare for the Reaper counteroffensive with only the Systems Alliance ships remaining in the Local Cluster trying to salvage something out of the poor situation. As for why the Normandy was speeding away from the Local Cluster? Well, Joker has been shown to be fiercely loyal to Shepard and probably took a hell of a lot of convincing to abandon Sol and Shep; the Normandy was probably one of the final few ships in the Mass Relay network when it collapsed.

Considering this, the endings as they are seem a little happier. Quite a lot of folks made it home when the network imploded.

Or my Shepard to have survived.

Shepard can survive, at least in the Destruction ending but it's not easy; you either need a flat EMS rating of 5,000 (War Assets x Galactic Readiness%, and maxing out on War Assets only nudges you over 6,000 if you're lucky) or a rating of 4,000 and have successfully threatened/charmed TIMmy in the final encounter; pull either of these off and you're treated to a scene of Shepard breathing in a mass of debris. Shepard dies in the Synthesis and Control endings regardless though.

[Quark]

Before diving into spoilers ... got an N7 Valiant from the Commendation Pack awarded for this weekend's MP activities. Ho boy, this thing is *awesome* in multiplayer.

Also, EA just announced that an Epilogue (not changes - explanations) is coming for free. I wonder if anyone who has said (I don't recall any here, but it's certainly happened everywhere else) EA designed this to force you to pay for DLC will take back what they said.

(I feel sorry for anyone still reading who hasn't finished the game yet).

and maxing out on War Assets only nudges you over 6,000 if you're lucky)

Nit: I had about ~7300, I believe, and a GameFAQs post says 7515 is possible, but it depends on choices all the way back to the original Game, of course.

All paths are available with their general best results at 2800 EMS (so 5600 Assets w/ no multiplayer).

The small bit added at the end for one specific path IGN says requires 4000 EMS and saving Anderson (by saving I mean either convincing TIM *or* Renegade interrupt, so you get to talk with him after the fact), *or* 5000 EMS. Neither of these is possible without multiplayer (or any of the minigame crap that adds to Readiness). I kind of wish it didn't exist at all, though.

Edit: bad math

[Pantalaimon]

The small bit added at the end for one specific path IGN says requires 4000 EMS and saving Anderson (by saving I mean either convincing TIM *or* Renegade interrupt, so you get to talk with him after the fact), *or* 5000 EMS. Neither of these is possible without multiplayer (or any of the minigame crap that adds to Readiness). I kind of wish it didn't exist at all, though.

*Continuing Spoilers*

Agreed. I just finished last week and picked the destruction ending because it seemed most like what my renegade Shepard would do (had been avoiding any and all spoilers). I was decently happy in a BSG-ish way with the ending. It raised more questions than answers, but I got a gut sense of completion which was important to me.

And then they threw in that resurrection. Ugh. It bothered me more than the usual "how the heck did my squadmate get there... hmm, wait, I didn't see her on the suicide run. What a wuss, is there an option to shoot her for desertion?!". The Catalyst specifically mentioned that Shepard is part synthetic and would be destroyed along with the Geth, EDI, etc. (speaking of: I felt worse for Joker than Mordin!).

[[wcip]Angel]

Spoiler for Geth/Quarian-storyline:

On my first play-through, I was able to secure the alliance between the two. On the second one, I intentionally wanted to see what happened when I sided with the Geth. Didn't give me a happy feeling at all. Now on my third, I sided with the Quarians (as I apparently hadn't fulfilled the prerequisites from ME2 on this save), which was equally heartbreaking. ME3 is a bit bland at times, but there are some moments in the game that are just pure hell (in a good way). Same with the end of Chuchanka and what happens atop that tower. These characters and the way their end was portrayed really got under my skin.

"Does this one have a soul?"