December News/Discussion

[Mordekhuul]

One other thing I noticed in respect to DK tanking is there are no two handed weapons that are built for tanking. Not a single two handed weapon that is in the level 80 use range has defense, parry, or dodge, they're all setup for DPS while there are many one handed weapons specifically setup for Warrior and Paladin tanking. They need to alleviate this issue as well for DK tanking instead of having the DK depend completely on their armor for their tanking stats unlike Warriors and Paladins that look to their weapon and shield to give them a number of tanking stats along with their armor.

Man I hope not. Lets leave the two handed weapon selection as-is and deal with it differently.

Oh wait, look at this:

16) New runeforge rune -- Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (two-handed only) now grants 25 Defense and 2% Stamina.

That is 25 defense skill, not rating. Pretty nice boost to DK's looking to stay above 540 as they either gear up or swap in new upgrades that have less defense and more of other tanking stats.

[TheDragoon]

Man I hope not. Lets leave the two handed weapon selection as-is and deal with it differently.

Oh wait, look at this:
That is 25 defense skill, not rating. Pretty nice boost to DK's looking to stay above 540 as they either gear up or swap in new upgrades that have less defense and more of other tanking stats.

Yeah, I think that's a superior approach than to add in 2-handed weapons that would ONLY be useful to Death Knights. Putting in "tanking" 2-handers would be completely contrary to the ideals of item homogenation that have been promoted in WotLK. As it stands, there are certainly weapons out there that are more-tankish that are perfectly fine for the purpose (ie agility/stam/expertise sorts of weapons) but other 2-handers work just fine, as well. :)

[Lissa]

Yeah, I think that's a superior approach than to add in 2-handed weapons that would ONLY be useful to Death Knights. Putting in "tanking" 2-handers would be completely contrary to the ideals of item homogenation that have been promoted in WotLK. As it stands, there are certainly weapons out there that are more-tankish that are perfectly fine for the purpose (ie agility/stam/expertise sorts of weapons) but other 2-handers work just fine, as well. :)

There's very few Epic quality two handers with Expertise on them.

Two Handers with Expertise

There are also very few Epic quality two handers with Hit on them.

Two Handers with Hit

There just isn't much choice for two handed weapons that would be ideal for DK tanking.

Overall, the only real choice for DK tanking is going to be Inevitable Defeat

So there really is a very limited list of weapons for DK tanking and there should be more.

[bonemage]

edit: Redundant at this point.

[Mordekhuul]

There's very few Epic quality two handers with Expertise on them.

Two Handers with Expertise

There are also very few Epic quality two handers with Hit on them.

Two Handers with Hit

There just isn't much choice for two handed weapons that would be ideal for DK tanking.

Overall, the only real choice for DK tanking is going to be Inevitable Defeat

So there really is a very limited list of weapons for DK tanking and there should be more.

I see your point. I wouldn't see an issue adding more 2 handers to the game with stats like expertise and +hit on them. Those are fairly useful stats to other 2 handed weapon users as well, unlike dodge, defense, or parry rating and the like.

[Mirajj]

Dec. 12 News

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The changes are coming fast and furious these days. Here's a huge one. All old instances are now unlocked. Molten Core no longer needs any Quintessence. Any ritual now just needs one clicker (The UBRS and Uldaman one's come to mind), the "odd' keys (such as Scepters and Mallets) are no longer needed, and you don't need an Urn to get Nightbane's attention. Wow. Just...wow...

Now that Blizz has the PTR up, they've also got a list of currently official notes for it.

[Pantalaimon]

Well, I suppose this is the easiest way to address player boredom.

GOGO ACHIEVEMENT HUNTERS! Gotta catch 'em all!

[NiteFox]

Well, I suppose this is the easiest way to address player boredom.

GOGO ACHIEVEMENT HUNTERS! Gotta catch 'em all!

Y'know, that thought occurred to me as well.

I wasn't even achievement hunting when I first actually entered UBRS, I was attempting to finish Blackhand's Command (Excellent quest text, by the way) without actually being attuned to UBRS in the first place. I managed to run around LBRS, followed by a stop over in Dustwallow Marsh to not-kill a dragon, then back again...

Bam, Pyroguard Emberseer. No progression for you.

I don't know about you guys, but opening up more Classic content, even for solo play is a good idea.

[Mirajj]

Dec. 16 News

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If you've managed to find a Death Knight who is actually interested in tanking instead of DPS'ing, here's a good article on how to help gear for it.

Winter's Veil has returned once again, bringing with it a slew of new Achievements and festive winter fun!

Here's a really nice overview of the new pvp zone, Wintergrasp. I've been in there a few times, and it's quite a bit of fun. While I may gripe about the hassle the zone creates trying to fly around the eastern chunk of Northrend, the battle itself is fun.

Here's a pretty nice guide to help you gear up your holy pally for crit.

In WotLK, there are no attunements, for anything. Just hit 80? You can zone in and give Malygos a poke. But is this a good thing? Especially with Heroics? You used to need Revered (and then Honered) to get the Heroic Key. So by the time you were able to do Heroics you were usually ready (gear wise) for them. But now that there's no keys, you have folks jumping right away into Heroics, and that can make a good run a pretty brutal one. I imagine that taking the keys away is a function of not having a specific faction tied to a certain dungeon (thank god) but is there some other way to 'throttle' it a bit?

[Frag]

So by the time you were able to do Heroics you were usually ready (gear wise) for them. But now that there's no keys, you have folks jumping right away into Heroics, and that can make a good run a pretty brutal one.

Depends on what you consider the balance point for skill.

Personally the groups I've been running on Terenas have had issue with exactly one heroic encounter (Eregos) and had to employ 'interesting' tactics on one other (Slad'ran), otherwise we've plowed through every encounter trash or boss we've fought and that was mostly in old gear and without cc.

Cheers,
~FragB)

[Delc]

In WotLK, there are no attunements, for anything. Just hit 80? You can zone in and give Malygos a poke. But is this a good thing? Especially with Heroics? You used to need Revered (and then Honered) to get the Heroic Key. So by the time you were able to do Heroics you were usually ready (gear wise) for them. But now that there's no keys, you have folks jumping right away into Heroics, and that can make a good run a pretty brutal one. I imagine that taking the keys away is a function of not having a specific faction tied to a certain dungeon (thank god) but is there some other way to 'throttle' it a bit?

With how easy the heroics are, I'm not sure attunements would have made much sense. So far it feels like level 80 heroics in Naxx10 gear are easier than level 70 heroics in Sunwell gear. Some of the achievements add a challenge, but if all you are after is loot and badges most of them are a breeze.

[Lissa]

In WotLK, there are no attunements, for anything. Just hit 80? You can zone in and give Malygos a poke. But is this a good thing? Especially with Heroics? You used to need Revered (and then Honered) to get the Heroic Key. So by the time you were able to do Heroics you were usually ready (gear wise) for them. But now that there's no keys, you have folks jumping right away into Heroics, and that can make a good run a pretty brutal one. I imagine that taking the keys away is a function of not having a specific faction tied to a certain dungeon (thank god) but is there some other way to 'throttle' it a bit?

With the exception of a couple very specific fights, I don't see an issue with someone stepping in in BoJ gear and not being able to pull their weight easily enough. As it stands right now, the most difficult heroic boss fights are:

1) Slad'ran (without using the exploit)
2) Loken (unless you have a well geared Holy/Discipline Priest or Resto Shaman and the pRNG doesn't screw you)
3) Eregos (this isn't about gear, this is about quality play)

[Pantalaimon]

In WotLK, there are no attunements, for anything. Just hit 80? You can zone in and give Malygos a poke.

I hate to join the bandwagon, but I'll echo the sentiment by the previous posters: attunements wouldn't make sense for Wrath, with the difficulty as-is.

That being said, Malygos does have the requirement that someone in the raid has to have beaten Kel'Thuzad. So there's that. But I suppose you could theoretically just hit 80 and poke Malygos - it depends on who you know.

[Mordekhuul]

2) Loken (unless you have a well geared Holy/Discipline Priest or Resto Shaman and the pRNG doesn't screw you)

I hadn't really thought about taking advantage of the holy priest I usually ran with on this fight until I ran with a good resto shaman the other night, and he suggested not running out, at all, and we listened to him. Talk about turning the fight from something fun that makes everyone stay on their toes to a complete joke.

[Lissa]

I hadn't really thought about taking advantage of the holy priest I usually ran with on this fight until I ran with a good resto shaman the other night, and he suggested not running out, at all, and we listened to him. Talk about turning the fight from something fun that makes everyone stay on their toes to a complete joke.

Me, Tal, Bolty, TD, and Loch did this fight the other night and Bolty died due to the pRNG around 20% (he got hit with the debuff twice in a row), but Improved Dying, I mean SoR, kept up long enough so that we had Loken at 5% or just under when Bolty lost SoR and we finished off Loken (with me forgetting to put the SS on Bolty after making it before the fight... :unsure:)

[Lissa]

I hate to join the bandwagon, but I'll echo the sentiment by the previous posters: attunements wouldn't make sense for Wrath, with the difficulty as-is.

That being said, Malygos does have the requirement that someone in the raid has to have beaten Sapphiron. So there's that. But I suppose you could theoretically just hit 80 and poke Malygos - it depends on who you know.

Fixed.

[Mirajj]

With how easy the heroics are, I'm not sure attunements would have made much sense. So far it feels like level 80 heroics in Naxx10 gear are easier than level 70 heroics in Sunwell gear. Some of the achievements add a challenge, but if all you are after is loot and badges most of them are a breeze.

I guess that the main issue here is WHO you are running with. My mates and I jumped right into Heroics when we were able, but we're all on the "pretty good" side of the skill scale (if I may say so myself). But...I've done some PUG's, and it's not pretty, not at all. Sure, with my friends/guildies, the runs can be a joke. But with 2-4 other random folks? I begin to see why they call this "heroic". Therein lies the problem, as I see it. We are looking at the non attunement issue through the rose colored glasses of having the backing of a very good guild(s). Try doing some pug's, and I wonder if folks thoughts on the difficulty and lack of attunements would change.

[Frag]

Try doing some pug's, and I wonder if folks thoughts on the difficulty and lack of attunements would change.

Dinged 80 a week ago past Friday around 8 a.m. server time. Found a pug running heroics and preceded to tank 4.9 in a row, still using 2pc T6, sub-20k hp and unenchanted/ungemmed but crit capped for lvl 72's. Only thing that stopped us was Loken and it was simply because our healer could not keep people up nor dance. Didn't know any of the people along and only one was from any form of a reputable guild (we've had an astonishing amount pop up since 3.0).

I just don't see it, the bar is set too low for my taste for the most part with a couple encounters set too high (We did Slad'ran last night in his own room as opposed to pulling him to the entrance, and it took the full attention of three of our top dps'rs to keep up with the snake spawn while myself and Inga (Kira's pet) dealt with the boss... I can't see that being the design of the boss as it took nearly 6m, wheras the final boss took just under over 1...)

YMMV,
~FragB)

[swirly]

(We did Slad'ran last night in his own room as opposed to pulling him to the entrance, and it took the full attention of three of our top dps'rs to keep up with the snake spawn while myself and Inga (Kira's pet) dealt with the boss... I can't see that being the design of the boss as it took nearly 6m, wheras the final boss took just under over 1...)

A nitpick, but I think I was mostly wasted on the snakes. I'm sure I helped some, but I think that overall the fight would have went much quicker with me on the boss. There were just too many instances where I'd start to attack a snake and it would be dead before chain could go off on it. Sure I got some off and I thunderstormed some and such, but it mostly felt like hunter+druid was plenty for them.

[Mordekhuul]

A nitpick, but I think I was mostly wasted on the snakes. I'm sure I helped some, but I think that overall the fight would have went much quicker with me on the boss. There were just too many instances where I'd start to attack a snake and it would be dead before chain could go off on it. Sure I got some off and I thunderstormed some and such, but it mostly felt like hunter+druid was plenty for them.

The easiest time we had with that boss was tanking the boss in the middle of the room, having our healer be up on the stairs to draw the adds with heal aggro, putting two DPS on snake killing duty near the healer (one a ret paladin, for some nice AOE capability), and putting our rogue on the boss full time. One DPS on the boss and he goes down pretty fast.