New computer

[--Pete]

Hi,

That reminds me... I need to call and argue with my dental insurance company about their refusal to pay for two "inspections" in the same month...

I have a similar recurring problem. I have no dental coverage (but the $400/year or so for routine cleaning and checking is really cheaper than the coverage). Every time I go in for my post transplant long term follow up, a doctor specializing in oral medicine looks in my mouth. The insurance company tries to claim it was a dental examination and not covered. I point out that dentin does not support cancer, that the doctor is looking at soft tissue, and that the doctor is *not* a dentist in the first place. Two rounds later, they call it a TKO and pay off.

I was fortunate in finding a great dentist when I moved to Seattle. And equally fortunate that most of the damage already done was relatively minor. With the exception of the wisdom teeth and one tooth that was growing back toward my palate, I've got all original equipment. Three of the teeth are capped as a result of damage from when I was young and stupid (well, technically, ignorant). I plan to keep these in good condition for the second half of my life.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

I did a bit more research lately and thought more about what I could afford, and what I wanted...

• $250 -- 2 x SSD -- like ADATA S599 64GB Striped <-- as the OS volume
• $65 -- HD -- Samsung F3 1TB
• $210 -- Mobo -- Gigabyte GAX58A-UD3R
• $425 -- Video -- 2 x EVGA GTX470 (or 465 maybe)- SLI w/lifetime warranty
• $270 -- CPU -- Intel Core I7-950 3.06Ghz
• $90 -- Ram -- 4 x 2GB G.Skill Ripjaw DDR1333 1.5v
• $97 -- All in one CPU water cooling kit
• $100 -- Case -- ANTEC 900 Black Steel ATX Midtower
• $190 -- Power -- Silverstone Strider Plus 850W
• $115 -- Liteon HBS112 Blueray Burner

For a total of about -- ~ $1800

These are Newegg prices. I can source most of it locally at Microcenter for less, and probably a couple hundred less.

[--Pete]

Hi,

All in one CPU water cooling kit

Really? What's the advantage of water cooling just your CPU? I figured going with complete fluid cooling makes sense, you can take both the noise and the heat elsewhere (not that I've ever bothered). But with case fans, south bridge fans, video card fans, power supply fans, etc., a CPU only cooler doesn't seem like it would buy you much in either noise reduction nor thermal performance. So, what I'm I missing?

--Pete

[kandrathe]

So, what I'm I missing?

I've looked at it for awhile, and have wanted to delve into it. Even stuff like Peltier, heat pumps, and so on, but have always been concerned about condensation (it gets very humid here). But, I feel that liquid cooling gets much more complicated (and expensive) in getting the flow right from block to block, and efficiently cooling multiple chips. The self contained liquid CPU coolers are getting cheap enough now, and outperform the overly huge metal heat sinks they strap onto CPU's these days. The only solutions I've looked at seriously are tower cases with all the water works already built in (e.g. http://www.xoxide.com/watcoolcas.html ). But, they are too expensive for what you get, and I like steel cases, not the easily dented aluminum ones.

And as you know... Unless you are willing to take your chips down well below zero Celsius, you won't see much improvement in performance either. So, if you merely want to keep the temps well within operating thresholds, then liquid cooling would be sufficient. The GPU's mostly come these days with highly tested air cooling solutions built on, which I suspect adds greatly to their price. Perhaps someday they'll have a cheaper liquid cooling version of their products with a water block pre-mounted, ready for hoses. Cases would come standard with a reservoir, radiator and pump with 4 or 5 input/output lines. It's just not mainstream enough. A perfect design in my estimation would figure out how to dissipate all the heat sources, including CPU's, GPU's, power supply, north bridge, memory, hard drives, etc.

[--Pete]

Hi,

But, they are too expensive for what you get, and I like steel cases, not the easily dented aluminum ones.

I like the much lighter aluminum ones. Plus, being a case hacker (extra holes for cable routing, removal of hole grids to improve airflow through fans, etc.) I like the easier working properties of aluminum. A hand panel cutter is OK for aluminum but a cause of RSI with steel.

I agree that the case based liquid coolers have a poor bang for the buck. And cooler systems should have decent flow control (ideally, built in thermostat control). And they really don't do much beyond what air does until you actually get into refrigerant systems. The only real advantage is the noise reduction (IMHO). I've got systems that run cool, but make the F-15 on take-off appear quite by comparison. My usual solution is to stick the box in a cubby (with good ventilation) below desk level. That cuts the noise considerably.

If you ever get around to playing with that system,let us know how well the liquid cooling works on the CPU.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

If you ever get around to playing with that system,let us know how well the liquid cooling works on the CPU.

Yeah, I should know soon enough if the tax man cometh.

I've built 3 PC's for myself in my life, but I've helped friends build about a dozen in total. A dream profession I've had is to build PC's that blend seamlessly into room decor. Like into a coffee table, etc. My mom's computer room has a nautical theme, so I've contemplated building her PC to look like a model ship (in other words... inside a model ship).

From a design aesthetic, I think it's awkward to have a steel box, monitor, keyboard and mouse standing out in an otherwise well buttoned room.

[Jim]

Hi,

I checked out Case mods awhile back. I saw some strange & beautiful Mods. I would never attempt anything like the one below, all I wanted to do was add a fan to the side door.

Instead I built a new one with a Antec 900 case see below Right & page #3 post #47 & #51 this thread.

System Specs for the Water cooled Rig below Left:
» i7 2600k 5.0ghz » P67 UD7 Gigabyte » 4gb 2133 Dominator GT » (2) MSI ATI 6870 » (2) Crucial C300 64gb RAID 0 » (2) WD Raptor 300gb » Silent Pro Gold 800W » EK Water Block - CPU, RAM, VGA, NB, SB, & Mosfet » Tube and Drive Bay Tanks » (2) Dual

........My Rat Nest.......>

Go here for full details & pictures plus about 2000 more to view:
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/

[kandrathe]

I checked out Case mods awhile back. I saw some strange & beautiful Mods. I would never attempt anything like the one below, all I wanted to do was add a fan to the side door.

My only question about the custom one you show is that it seems the radiator is on the bottom, and thereby the fans must pull the hot air down (and against it's natural inclination).


Each one I build gets a little cleaner as I figure out things I'd do differently. Much of it is thinking about the aesthetics, and how you choose the parts ( e.g. avoiding the mishmash of a blue Mobo, red Ram, and Black GPU, with multicolored wiring.). Fundamental is having wiring long enough to move out of the way and tuck out of sight.

One inexpensive trick I've learned (from a friend), is to wrap the wire bundles with ribbon of your color choice, then enclosed them in varying sizes of clear tubing. If you must, slit the tubing length wise to get everything in there, then tack back together every 1" with super glue. Use zip ties as needed to move the tubing out of the way. It makes cleaning dust bunnies much easier, and provides better airflow in general.

Yours is pretty good.

[attachment=47]

I would consider moving the wire pointed to by the red arrow under the Mobo, or cutting it, and solder and shrink tube on another 12" so you can move it to the outside rather than over. But, that is too much work for one minor annoyance.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Each one I build gets a little cleaner as I figure out things I'd do differently.

Yep. Sorta "live and learn".

Fundamental is having wiring long enough to move out of the way and tuck out of sight.

Soldering iron, quick trip to Rat Shack for a few rolls of wire (and make sure the gauge is sufficient), and the length of the wires is no problem. Even ribbon cables -- just get the necessary connectors and use a bench vice to crimp them (the "official" crimping tools will set you back more for the full set than the cost of the computer).

One inexpensive trick I've learned (from a friend), is to wrap the wire bundles with ribbon of your color choice, then enclosed them in varying sizes of clear tubing.

If you are willing to have wires show, sure. I like to "dry" assemble the basics (Mobo, P/S, HDs, DVD, etc.) and use those overhead projector pens (liquid ink that later washes off) to mark where cables need to come up. For instance, HD cables coming from the motherboard can go through slots just under the edge of the motherboard, that way only a little of the cable is seen. Then I take everything electrical/electronic out (including the switches on the case), drill out rivets if I need to, and proceed to do the sheet metal work. That includes cutting holes for cables, opening up access for fans, and sometimes installing a baffle or two to improve or direct the airflow.

When the massacree is done, I either re-pop the rivets removed or replace them with screws if I think future access will be needed. I vacuum, dust, blow, and wipe everything (twice -- I'm paranoid about metal chips and electronics; and they ARE out to get me). The holes I deburr or put a plastic edge on (vibration + wire + sharp edge = you don't want to know the truth). Then I route all the wires (which includes installing the power supply -- I've yet to get one of those that have removable bundles).

The major parts are now reinstalled, cables attached and slack pulled out the back. Very clean appearance, and the dust bunnies have their own hutch out back where air flow and heating aren't a problem. Of course, sometimes it takes me 6 years to do all that.

--Pete

[Jim]

I checked out Case mods awhile back. I saw some strange & beautiful Mods. I would never attempt anything like the one below, all I wanted to do was add a fan to the side door.

My only question about the custom one you show is that it seems the radiator is on the bottom, and thereby the fans must pull the hot air down (and against it's natural inclination).

Each one I build gets a little cleaner as I figure out things I'd do differently. Much of it is thinking about the aesthetics, and how you choose the parts ( e.g. avoiding the mishmash of a blue Mobo, red Ram, and Black GPU, with multicolored wiring.). Fundamental is having wiring long enough to move out of the way and tuck out of sight.

One inexpensive trick I've learned (from a friend), is to wrap the wire bundles with ribbon of your color choice, then enclosed them in varying sizes of clear tubing. If you must, slit the tubing length wise to get everything in there, then tack back together every 1" with super glue. Use zip ties as needed to move the tubing out of the way. It makes cleaning dust bunnies much easier, and provides better airflow in general.

Yours with the Arrow is pretty good.

I would consider moving the wire pointed to by the red arrow under the Mobo, or cutting it, and solder and shrink tube on another 12" so you can move it to the outside rather than over. But, that is too much work for one minor annoyance.

Hi,

Here are before/after pictures, after is still a rats nest except it looks better. The cable with the arrow was too short to reach, I would need to buy an extension in order to hide it behind the MoBo. I'm not concerned about aesthetics, it's not a show machine.

I don't look inside the side door except when I clean the dust out which is a major problem here in Arizona, it's not dust per se it's pulverized sand it turns my whole house White.

Since I gave up trying to control it, I dust once a month now NOT every other day or once a week. This is why the comp is on the desk not on the floor next to the desk, less dust up there.

I almost didn't buy this case because the PSU is mounted at the bottom of the case. Seems MoBo's are designed for a Top mounted PSU. IF you go Water cooled be sure to take all this into consideration before your buy your case. Note the in/out water tube ports above the PSU.

BEFORE....> ..........AFTER....>

[Lissa]

I did a bit more research lately and thought more about what I could afford, and what I wanted...

• $250 -- 2 x SSD -- like ADATA S599 64GB Striped <-- as the OS volume
• $65 -- HD -- Samsung F3 1TB
• $210 -- Mobo -- Gigabyte GAX58A-UD3R
• $425 -- Video -- 2 x EVGA GTX470 (or 465 maybe)- SLI w/lifetime warranty
• $270 -- CPU -- Intel Core I7-950 3.06Ghz
• $90 -- Ram -- 4 x 2GB G.Skill Ripjaw DDR1333 1.5v
• $97 -- All in one CPU water cooling kit
• $100 -- Case -- ANTEC 900 Black Steel ATX Midtower
• $190 -- Power -- Silverstone Strider Plus 850W
• $115 -- Liteon HBS112 Blueray Burner

For a total of about -- ~ $1800

These are Newegg prices. I can source most of it locally at Microcenter for less, and probably a couple hundred less.

I would stay away from LGA1366 and LGA1156 as those are dead sockets and no new processors are being made for either. If you really want to go with the equivalent of LGA1366, you need to wait till atleast Quarter 3, probably Quarter 4 of this year for the release of LGA2011 (the new iteration of LGA1366).

Also, if you get a motherboard with SATA3 sockets, get the new Crucial M4/C400 64G SSDs for around $120. Much faster read and write than the other 64G SSDs available.

This is what I just ordered (have case and PSU already)

• 1 x Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
  1 x Arctic Silver ACN-60ML (2-PC-SET) Thermal material Remover & Surface Purifier - OEM
  1 x Noctua NH-C14 140mm x 2 SSO CPU Cooler
  1 x Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit 1-Pack - OEM
  2 x EVGA 01G-P3-1380-KR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) SSC+ 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
  2 x Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
  1 x Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K
  1 x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-8GBXH
  1 x ASUS P8P67 DELUXE (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

That's $1500 total after shipping.

[kandrathe]

• 1 x Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K
  
• 1 x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-8GBXH
  
• 1 x ASUS P8P67 DELUXE (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Hmmm, I see I have more research to do. I do like the i5-2500K better... This is why it's good to do a little dreaming out loud with friends.

[Jim]

• 1 x Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K
  
• 1 x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-8GBXH
  
• 1 x ASUS P8P67 DELUXE (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Hmmm, I see I have more research to do. I do like the i5-2500K better... This is why it's good to do a little dreaming out loud with friends.

Hi,

Depending on how deep your pockets are I would consider HT Technology for $90 bucks more for a 4 -5 year investment

IF you use your rig for gaming 90% software 10% I5 2500K L3 Cache: 6MB is $225 [no HT]
IF you use your rig for gaming 50% software 50% I7 2600K L3 Cache: 8MB is $315 Plus you get:

Intel Hyper-Threading Technology (HT Technology) Intel Hyper-Threading Technology delivers thread-level parallelism on each processor resulting in more efficient use of processor resources—higher processing throughput—and improved performance on the multi-threaded software of today and tomorrow.

EDIT: ooops, IF your going to Overclock for gaming don't get HT.