New computer

[LavCat]

Windows 7 x64 Professional
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6832116758

FYI, Professional is for Business, not for home use. Professional does not have a number of things that are used in gaming and multimedia, so either go with Home or Ultimate when dealing with a home system for Windows 7.

I understood that Windows 7 Home was simply a less expensive subset of Professional (which in turn was a subset of Ultimate). What feature of Home are you saying is not included in Professional?

[Taem]

My computers blue-screens have become very frequent, about once or twice hourly. It usually happens when I open a file in windows explorer. I'm not certain if this is indicative of a memory leak or ram failure, but in any case, I have decided to upgrade to win 7, and in the process, realized my current computer could use an upgrade itself. So here I am looking to purchase a new computer for myself this time (not my wife) capable of playing Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, and Darkspore. I don't have a lot to spend. I want the computer to be upgradable. I want the computer to be able to multitask also, not just games. I went to toms hardware, but was unimpressed with their choices, though reasonably priced, were highly unmodifiable for future upgrades, and getting just the components I "want" will cost be a lot more than purchasing a pre-build machine. After a bit of research on the major sellers websites, I believe this machine fits the bill perfectly, and is very affordable, but I'd like some opinions of those who are more computer savvy than I. Thoughts? I'm open to suggestions.

[--Pete]

Hi,

So here I am looking to purchase a new computer ... capable of playing Diablo 3, ...

You don't need a computer, you need a time machine.

As to the computer, no help from me -- I'm in an computer illiterate stage. Heck, I haven't even finished both the machines I started in '05.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

Thoughts? I'm open to suggestions.

So sourcing something like that from my local Microcenter...

AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Thuban 3.3GHz, 3.7GHz Turbo 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor -- $200

ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Motherboard -- $225

Gigabyte AMD Radeon HD 6950 2048MB GDDR5 PCIe 2.1 x16 Video Card -- $280

Corsair Memory XMS3 8GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL9 Desktop Memory Kit (Two 4GB Memory Modules) -- $95

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1.5TB 7,200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive ST31500341AS - OEM -- $100

Sony Optiarc AD-7261S-0B Black SATA 24X Dual/Double Layer DVD Burner with LightScribe Support - OEM -- $30

True Power New 750w ATX Power Supply -- $110

Cooler Master -- Gladiator 600 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case -- $60

Total $1100 -- No warranty!

But, if you can salvage anything from your current rig, then the price goes down.

[Concillian]

My computers blue-screens have become very frequent, about once or twice hourly. It usually happens when I open a file in windows explorer. I'm not certain if this is indicative of a memory leak or ram failure, but in any case, I have decided to upgrade to win 7, and in the process, realized my current computer could use an upgrade itself. So here I am looking to purchase a new computer for myself this time (not my wife) capable of playing Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, and Darkspore. I don't have a lot to spend. I want the computer to be upgradable. I want the computer to be able to multitask also, not just games. I went to toms hardware, but was unimpressed with their choices, though reasonably priced, were highly unmodifiable for future upgrades, and getting just the components I "want" will cost be a lot more than purchasing a pre-build machine. After a bit of research on the major sellers websites, I believe this machine fits the bill perfectly, and is very affordable, but I'd like some opinions of those who are more computer savvy than I. Thoughts? I'm open to suggestions.

ibuypower.com or cyberpower.com and you can put together just about anything you want for a pretty modest builder fee.

Or a pre-selected system at newegg like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6883227321

an i5-2400 will be marginally slower in applications that use 6 cores, but there are very few of those applications. It's no slouch. If you go to one of those websites, you can put together a similar machine with features you're most interested in (more memory if you want, or a better video card.)

The video card in those systems is the same. A 6770 is just a 5770 with a new label on it. 6770 are sold only to OEMs, basically so OEMs can say it's a 6 series card, even though it's unchanged from the 5 series (since it was a pretty small jump anyway.)

AMD is just plain not the way to go right now. Their next gen is due out mid-year. I'm praying they're something more competitive. Current Blizzard games HEAVILY favor Intel. And a single Intel core right now significantly outperforms a single AMD core at a given clock, so Intel Quads are often as fast or faster than AMD Hex cores in multithreaded applications.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=146
shows i5-2500 vs. 1090T. 1090T is favored in only 3 benchmarks out of 2 or 3 dozen spanning most things you'd use a computer for.
A 2400 is marginally slower (200 MHz slower), and generally the best all-around bang for the buck for people wanting a decent all-around system. If you're dead set on AMD, wait until Fall. Their new offerings should be pretty significant improvements.

[Jim]

ibuypower.com or cyberpower.com and you can put together just about anything you want for a pretty modest builder fee.

Or a pre-selected system at newegg like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6883227321

an i5-2400 will be marginally slower in applications that use 6 cores, but there are very few of those applications. It's no slouch. If you go to one of those websites, you can put together a similar machine with features you're most interested in (more memory if you want, or a better video card.)

The video card in those systems is the same. A 6770 is just a 5770 with a new label on it. 6770 are sold only to OEMs, basically so OEMs can say it's a 6 series card, even though it's unchanged from the 5 series (since it was a pretty small jump anyway.)

AMD is just plain not the way to go right now. Their next gen is due out mid-year. I'm praying they're something more competitive. Current Blizzard games HEAVILY favor Intel. And a single Intel core right now significantly outperforms a single AMD core at a given clock, so Intel Quads are often as fast or faster than AMD Hex cores in multithreaded applications.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=146
shows i5-2500 vs. 1090T. 1090T is favored in only 3 benchmarks out of 2 or 3 dozen spanning most things you'd use a computer for.
A 2400 is marginally slower (200 MHz slower), and generally the best all-around bang for the buck for people wanting a decent all-around system. If you're dead set on AMD, wait until Fall. Their new offerings should be pretty significant improvements.

Hi,

If you don't want to build it yourself then Concillian's way is the Best way to go.

Be careful some custom builds do not come with an Operating System, you will need to have them add one & the cost added to the total invoice.

Why not to buy Retail list:

5400rpm hard drive I didn't know they still used them except in Laptops. 7200rpm is the standard today.
Sounds like the HP has an Onboard sound system, not for a gamer who likes decent sound.
ENERGY STAR Qualified "No"
USB 2.0 [your next digital device will come with USB 3.0]

[Taem]

The video card in those systems is the same. A 6770 is just a 5770 with a new label on it. 6770 are sold only to OEMs, basically so OEMs can say it's a 6 series card, even though it's unchanged from the 5 series (since it was a pretty small jump anyway.)

I was under the impression that the 6000 series was faster than the 5000 series. I know it was built off the same model, but on sites such as tomshardware, the 6000 series does substantially better than the 5000 series and is about average in power as video cards go. Is this not true for the 6770 OEM version?

5400rpm hard drive I didn't know they still used them except in Laptops.

Very disappointing. Don't know how I missed that.

Sounds like the HP has an Onboard sound system, not for a gamer who likes decent sound.

I have an external USB sound card so, not a big deal.

ENERGY STAR Qualified "No"

Perhaps a naive question, but what does that matter? Of course, I suppose it saves power when in use, is this correct?

USB 2.0 [your next digital device will come with USB 3.0]

3.0 is already readily available in computers? Is it a tech that will be a must have? Or is it more like, meh... wait 5 years before worrying about it?

[kandrathe]

3.0 is already readily available in computers? Is it a tech that will be a must have? Or is it more like, meh... wait 5 years before worrying about it?

If you don't have it you might be waiting 5 years for your 2TB backup onto your external HD at USB 2.0 speeds (480 Mbit/s). The biggest gain for USB 3.0 is 5Gbit/s transfer speeds.

[Taem]

3.0 is already readily available in computers? Is it a tech that will be a must have? Or is it more like, meh... wait 5 years before worrying about it?

If you don't have it you might be waiting 5 years for your 2TB backup onto your external HD at USB 2.0 speeds (480 Mbit/s). The biggest gain for USB 3.0 is 5Gbit/s transfer speeds.

Humm, wouldn't that require new cabling? I have some spare USB cables lying about, but I doubt they could run speeds that fast.

[Concillian]

The video card in those systems is the same. A 6770 is just a 5770 with a new label on it. 6770 are sold only to OEMs, basically so OEMs can say it's a 6 series card, even though it's unchanged from the 5 series (since it was a pretty small jump anyway.)

I was under the impression that the 6000 series was faster than the 5000 series. I know it was built off the same model, but on sites such as tomshardware, the 6000 series does substantially better than the 5000 series and is about average in power as video cards go. Is this not true for the 6770 OEM version?

The 6770 is just a rebadge.
Specs on 6770 (OEM):
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/g...iew.aspx#2
Specs on 5770:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/g...iew.aspx#2

Both are 800 shaders / 40 texture units / 16 ROPs
Both list 1.36 Teraflop
Both list 76.8 GB / sec bandwidth

They're exactly the same.

Other cards in the 6xxx family are different. They changed naming scheme to add a "tier" so they aren't all faster than the previous 5xxx card with corresponding number, but they do tend to compete well with their given price and power consumption. 6750 and 6770 though are exact 5xxx parts called 6xxx so OEMs can have a 6 series card in that price range.

5770 is still a very competitive card in it's price range. It's not really a bad thing. No nVidia card can touch it's power consumption / price / performance point. The GTX460-768 is good on price / performance if you can find it on sale / rebate, but it has significantly higher power consumption. I have one and it suits my current needs, but I use a fairly low resolution.

As I mentioned in the initial response to Jarulf, the latest gen was meant for a smaller process, but got stuck on 40nm. The result has largely been adjusting product lines to compete with competitors at various price points. Price points where nVidia had a card that AMD didn't (mot notably GTX 460 - 1GB) , AMD created a new 6 series card (6850... slower than a 5850, but much cheaper). Prices AMD had a card that nVidia didn't, nVidia created a new card. The result is a lot of cards. There are like 10 different models for either brand between $100 and 300. Almost every $20 there's another card.

A 6850 is slower than a 5850 at most things, but there was no 5950, and now there is a 6950. The numbers don't always match up, but the 6 series is pretty competitive. As I said earlier, the 5770 was already winning in that segment, AMD didn't need to re-jigger it's lineup in that part of the market. They still don't, so they just slapped a 6770 label on a 5770. They would take huge flak from reviewers if they did that across the board, so they did it OEM only, where it makes sense since full system purchases are usually less informed consumers who will more readily discount a 5770 just because it's a 5xxx instead of a 6xxx. Discrete card purchases are more likely to know if it's a re-badge, and the press would roast AMD for it, as they gave nVidia a TON of crap for rebadging the 8800GT twice. (9800GT, GTS250)

USB 2.0 [your next digital device will come with USB 3.0]

3.0 is already readily available in computers? Is it a tech that will be a must have? Or is it more like, meh... wait 5 years before worrying about it?

I'm kind of agnostic about USB 3. There are devices available right now, but there is a significant cost associated. It's readily available on motherboards and USB 3 external hard drives (or standalone external enclosures) are also readily available, and significantly faster than USB 2.0. Cost adder on motherboards is barely less than buying an add-in card.

Currently, external hard drives are about the only thing that really makes use of the additional speed, and eSATA (or even jury rigging an internal SATA port to be used outside your system) does not have the same price adder and is even faster than USB 3. So I don't make a big deal of it on my own machines.

Since there are no fully integrated USB3 ports yet (no chipset natively supports USB 3.0, they are all tacked onto motherboards with a special USB 3.0 controller chip) they really haven't "taken off", but it's likely just a matter of time. Intel is offering some competing technology, which by launching on Mac first (already available on MacBook Pros,) looks to be the "new Firewire" and we will have Thunderbolt vs. USB 3.0 much as last gen it was Firewire vs. USB2.0 as the "port battle" du jour. Hard to say for sure who will "win", but I'd assume whoever isn't associated with Macs since that usually commands an irrational price premium.

[Jim]

5400rpm hard drive I didn't know they still used them except in Laptops.

Very disappointing. Don't know how I missed that.

The HD was obvious, it's the hardware Not listed that would concern me.

Sounds like the HP has an Onboard sound system, not for a gamer who likes decent sound.

I have an external USB sound card so, not a big deal.

That should work.

ENERGY STAR Qualified "No"

Perhaps a naive question, but what does that matter? Of course, I suppose it saves power when in use, is this correct?

Yes & also ENERGY STAR Qualified = This could be because the Power Supply unit is Junk!!!
To estimate your savings potential, see the ENERGY STAR Office Equipment Savings Calculator.

USB 2.0 [your next digital device will come with USB 3.0]

3.0 is already readily available in computers? Is it a tech that will be a must have? Or is it more like, meh... wait 5 years before worrying about it?

For $1200+ you deserve the latest technology, not last years. It might take one more year for this new technology to be present in most devices, but at least you'll have it, I'll have to buy it as an add-on PCI card for my 2 year old computer.

Retail MFG's buy Outdated & Overstocked Hardware, that is why they OMIT the the name or model number for each piece of hardware installed.

[Taem]

Okay, I think I've settled on a machine! Thanks for the link Concillian! I'll have to pay half with a CC and the rest from my bonus check for now, but I think that this fits the bill nicely. I even checked Toms Hardware and, while not at the very top of the list, most of the peripherals are within the upper ranges. I'm pretty excited about this one!

[Jarulf]

Hi,

Sorry for not having posted before. Been busy and without my own computer. Turns out it was not a hardware failure after all and just the HD goofing. Hopefully I can fix it or at least reinstall and thus postpone the new computer until after summer.

In any case, thanks for the input, information and such which still got me going and picking out what to buy had I bought it now. My old computer that is 4 and a half year old, actually manage to play new games still pretty decent (the ones I play). It was probably at the time a very good one and I think the graphics card at that time was among “the best” (A gigabyte GeForce 9700 GTX (give or take some letters). I can actually still play most new games at decent quality (typically at something like 1240x1024 as that is my monitor size still).

Anyway, the computer I had more or less picked out now would probably be a good gaming computer although not “top of the line” (not going nuts with double graphics cards for example). What I ended up with was something along the following.

After the information on processors, over clocking and such I decided to go for over clocking so picked:

Motherboard:
ASUS P8P67 Pro (alternatively the same but EVO or Sabertooth variant)

Processor:
Intel i5 2500K

Graphic card:
Gigabyte GeForce GTX560 Ti (apparently the Core Clock one is quite Over clocked and nice)

Here I am still pondering either going up the chain to later nvidia cards or the AMD alternative 9650 2 GB variant, unlockable to 9670 and the 2 GB seems good for the future. In a few years it might be useable and important although not today).

Memory:
2x4 GB 1333MHz 1,5V (alternatively go crazy and get 4x4 GB now just for the future  )

Storage:
Corsair SSD F120

Not sure but an SSD disc seems nice. 120 GB seems slightly to small but pricewise, larger one seems not an option. After summer I guess I will be able to get a larger one for a good price. I already have tons of normal HD space as well as a NAS with 4 x 2 TB  (RAID 5) So no normal HD needed.

Case
Fractal Design XL (just liked it when I saw the concept, apparently a silent one)

It exists as black or titanium (metal I assume) were I would buy.

Power Supply:
Seasonic 620 Bronze (or is it 650?) It is 80 PLUS certified and I have some margin.


Operating system:
Windows 7 Proffessional or above (appearantly needed for XP virtualization or something, for various reasons I would like it).



That is about it. I need some cooler for processor that I have not looked at and a new DVD burner (want one with SATA connection, have none spare right now).


So, in 3 month, I can probably upgrade some of the above but that is the idea.

[Jim]

Okay, I think I've settled on a machine! Thanks for the link Concillian! I'll have to pay half with a CC and the rest from my bonus check for now, but I think that this fits the bill nicely. I even checked Toms Hardware and, while not at the very top of the list, most of the peripherals are within the upper ranges. I'm pretty excited about this one!

Hi,

I think that Concillian was giving you an example of what you could buy if you go with a custom built rig, it was not a recommendation that you buy from Newegg. I use Newegg for 90% of my Hardware purchases when I build or upgrade, it's a great company to buy from, their return [RMA] policy is outstanding.

Now you need to consider "IF" you needed to return the unit to whom do you ship it to Newegg or the Manufacturer? Most retail outlets will after 30 days tell you to ship it to the MFG so you might as well buy it Directly from the MFG.

Since your now interested in a custom build I would suggest you Price one at the Manufacturers web site frist. I know it is overwhelming at first view with so many different models to choose from but it's a good way to understand what you are Buying/Building if not Newegg is the easy way to go.

I'm not sure which custom MFG is the better choice I will leave that up to my friends @ Tomshardware.
AMD Radeon HD 6790 Review: More Mid-Range Might


This is a list of FREE stuff from the MFG's web site IF you buy Direct!...sorry if I made it more difficult to choose, I drive myself crazy when I buy anything other than food.

http://www.ibuypower.com/ibpPages/WeeklySpecial.aspx

5% OFF Order now for Deferred Delivery and get 5% off systems over $999.
Must key in Coupon Code - defer - during checkout. Click here for details.
FREE AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Six-Core CPU Upgrade from Phenom X6 1090T CPU.
FREE Intel Core i7-960 Processor Upgrade with purchase of Intel Core i7-950 Processor.
FREE Corsair or Major Brand DDR3-1600 Upgrade on ALL Desktops
< with purchase of Corsair or Major Brand 4GB, 6GB, 8GB, 12GB DDR3-1333 Memory >
FREE Total War: Shogun 2 Game with purchase of any Intel Core i7 Processor
(Activation code will be emailed to customer after the system shipped)
FREE Total War: Shogun 2 Game with purchase of any AMD Processor and Radeon HD 6800 or higher video cards (Activation code will be emailed to customer after the system shipped)
FREE Star Trek Online with selected Intel CPU or SSD.
FREE Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 with purchase of AMD Phenom II x6 CPU + AMD
Radeon HD 5800 or higher Video Card + Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate
FREE 4GB USB Flash Drive & Darksider with purchase of AMD Phenom II X6 CPU.
FREE Liquid CPU Cooling on ALL Compatible Desktop Systems.
FREE USB 3.0 System with purchase of any desktop motherboard w/o USB 3.0 Interface.
$100 Mail-in Rebate with combined purchase of the following Corsair products (A+B+C+D):
A. Graphite 600T Case,
B. 8GB / 16GB Vengeance Memory,
C. CMPSU-750AX / CMPSU-850AX / CMPSU-1200AX Power Supply,
D. 120 GB Force Series F120 SSD
$30 Mail-in Rebate with purchase of AMD Phenom II x6 + AMD Radeon HD 5800 or higher Video Card + MicroSoft Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate
Click here for more MIR in Rebate Center

[Klaus]

AMD is just plain not the way to go right now. Their next gen is due out mid-year. I'm praying they're something more competitive.

I had to check to make sure it was public info before posting. The Llano APUs should show up in systems in about 2 months (under the platform name Sabine. I believe the southbridge involved supports USB3). We've started shipping production units to our customers.

[kandrathe]

AMD is just plain not the way to go right now. Their next gen is due out mid-year. I'm praying they're something more competitive.

I had to check to make sure it was public info before posting. The Llano APUs should show up in systems in about 2 months (under the platform name Sabine. I believe the southbridge involved supports USB3). We've started shipping production units to our customers.

Argh. This is why buying a new PC is agony. Knowing when to buy is as important as knowing what to buy.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/AMD-S...1302179141

[Kevin]

Oh just go Commodore 64! Apple and IBM stink!!!

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/06...technology

[Jarulf]

Argh. This is why buying a new PC is agony. Knowing when to buy is as important as knowing what to buy.

Well, not really. Whenever you buy, you could always have waited another weak or month and get that new or updated thing for it. So no point in waiting

In reality there is of course reasons for waiting if there is a larger update for something that more seldom happens that might make it worth waiting for but in general, I think one can just buy whenever one need a new computer and know that anyoe buying next month will get something better.

[LavCat]

Oh just go Commodore 64! Apple and IBM stink!!!

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/06...technology

I seriously wish them success with this venture but for now I'll stick with my Commodore 128. Better than dual cores the 128 has two CPU's. And the 128 has possibly the most attractive case of any computer I have ever used, as well.

A while ago I heard that that someone developed a network card for the 128. I would love to get the 128 on my network. For now the 128 sits on my desk, but the monitor is disconnected on the bed behind me. It is a bit bulky. For an OS I have GEOS. I have a mouse and external disc drive. I have assemblers and a C compiler. What's preventing me so far is Archaeology.

[Concillian]

AMD is just plain not the way to go right now. Their next gen is due out mid-year. I'm praying they're something more competitive.

I had to check to make sure it was public info before posting. The Llano APUs should show up in systems in about 2 months (under the platform name Sabine. I believe the southbridge involved supports USB3). We've started shipping production units to our customers.

For what Jarulf is discussing, Llano is still not something I'd consider, I was mainly referring to Bulldozer.

Llano will be WAY better than anything currently available for systems without a discrete GPU, that much is pretty guaranteed ($500-1000 notebooks + small form factor / all-in-one PCs). It should definitely be a big product for AMD, as the performance advantage is only part of the benefit AMD has over Intel on the integrated graphics side. The drivers and software are MUCH more mature for AMD. Intel has an extraordinarily lackluster history of driver support with it's integrated graphics products, and I'd buy AMD for that reason alone for all-in-one / notebooks where there is no expectation of having a discrete GPU.

However, given the CPU side of it is little more than a current Phenom II, just smaller (and with very welcome power gating improvements), it's pretty unlikely it will be able to compete in raw CPU power with Sandy Bridge. It's not the niche they're looking for with the product, so it's not designed to be a product that would be exciting for people who are talking about using a $200+ video card.

I was more referring to Bulldozer. This is the more interesting product for someone with a discrete card. The full die is dedicated to CPU and the architecture is completely different, so there is a bit of suspense about performance. It's bound to be better than Llano for a computer with a discrete GPU. How much better is what needs to be seen, as well as the price difference.

Llano has started shipping to OEMs, and components will be available to e-tail / retail "later". Bulldozer is not expected on shelves until at least Q3. Klaus probably knows all this and more that he can't tell us, but for the others interested, there is the rundown on CPUs.

Of course Intel isn't idle, their shrink of Sandy bridge is coming between Q4-2011 and Q2 2012. This is just a shrink, no major architecture changes, so should bring power savings and nominal speed improvements (10-20% or so, traditionally).