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06-20-2010, 08:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2010, 08:57 PM by --Pete.)
Hi,
(06-20-2010, 08:37 PM)Alliera Wrote: I prefer to think they know what they're doing.
That is, in all situations and about any subject, usually a poor assumption to make. 
However, I don't see how soccer can remain a continuously flowing game and incorporate video review.
--Pete
EDIT: How are you measuring it as 'biggest'?
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Quote:What's with arresting those Dutch girls for wearing orange mini-skirts? Is that some kind of gangsta colors thing?
It wasn't because of the colour (nearly all Dutch fans are wearing orange). It was because their skirts were branded with a beer logo that wasn't the official sponsor of the competition. They were asked to leave, and didn't, at which point they were trespassing.
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(06-20-2010, 08:37 PM)Alliera Wrote: It removes absolute authority from the referee and places it on a video recorder. That doesn't feel like football to me. As if video recorders had a vested interest in the process?
The important thing, I would have thought, would be the facts of the game: what were the players doing, where was the ball, when did various things occur. The refs are there to judge that, and the video is a tool to make sure they call it right.
The referees aren't supposed to be kings. They're supposed to regulate the game according to the rules. If it makes for better rule-following, why not undermine their authority?
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Hi,
(06-20-2010, 10:19 PM)LennyLen Wrote: It wasn't because of the colour (nearly all Dutch fans are wearing orange). It was because their skirts were branded with a beer logo that wasn't the official sponsor of the competition. They were asked to leave, and didn't, at which point they were trespassing.
Wow! OK, back when I was young and people hadn't been scammed into being walking billboards, I could understand this. But now that half your clothing sports logos, slogans, and names of companies, I find that strangely distressing. If Nike were an official sponsor, does that mean I could be arrested for wearing Converse? I mean, the logo shows.
--Pete
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Quote:If Nike were an official sponsor, does that mean I could be arrested for wearing Converse? I mean, the logo shows.
It appears the women were actually arrested, and are being prosecuted, for violating the Contravention of Merchandise Marks Act. This is a set of laws set in place to combat ambush advertising (where a company benefits from an event for which they had no advertising rights). The Bavaria brewing company has admitted they supplied the dresses, which are apparently one of their trademarks.
Budweiser's contract with FIFA stated that no other beer company was allowed any advertising rights at the World Cup, so FIFA actually were obliged to act on any ambush marketing ploys by rival beer companies.
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(06-21-2010, 01:40 AM)LennyLen Wrote: Quote:If Nike were an official sponsor, does that mean I could be arrested for wearing Converse? I mean, the logo shows.
It appears the women were actually arrested, and are being prosecuted, for violating the Contravention of Merchandise Marks Act. This is a set of laws set in place to combat ambush advertising (where a company benefits from an event for which they had no advertising rights). The Bavaria brewing company has admitted they supplied the dresses, which are apparently one of their trademarks.
Budweiser's contract with FIFA stated that no other beer company was allowed any advertising rights at the World Cup, so FIFA actually were obliged to act on any ambush marketing ploys by rival beer companies. I didn't see any logo. It wasn't obvious to me that they were advertising a beer.
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Quote:I didn't see any logo. It wasn't obvious to me that they were advertising a beer.
That was my mistake from reading the wrong page about the incident. Several other articles have confirmed that there were not logos on the dresses themselves. However the dresses themselves are apparently the dresses that are worn by the Bavaria Beer PR girls when they're doing promotional work, and as I mentioned earlier, provided by the beer company.
I honestly can't think of any other reason why 33 South African girls were wearing dresses provided by a Dutch beer company in one group other than as a marketing ploy.
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Hi,
(06-21-2010, 04:53 AM)LennyLen Wrote: I honestly can't think of any other reason why 33 South African girls were wearing dresses provided by a Dutch beer company in one group other than as a marketing ploy.
I can. A joke, a lark, a prank -- call it what you will.
Without logos, it is sounding even worse. If I were to go there in black slacks and a white knit shirt, would I be arrested for advertising Guinness? In spite of the fact the pants prominently display the Dockers logo and the shirt has a Polo logo? Or would I be arrested for the logos?
I find everything about the world cup interesting except the soccer.
--Pete
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(06-21-2010, 04:53 AM)LennyLen Wrote: However the dresses themselves are apparently the dresses that are worn by the Bavaria Beer PR girls when they're doing promotional work, and as I mentioned earlier, provided by the beer company.
I'd love to be a beer PR girl. I wonder what the age cutoff is?
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Quote:I can. A joke, a lark, a prank -- call it what you will.
On the part of the girls, sure. Why do you think the beer company did it?
Quote:I'd love to be a beer PR girl. I wonder what the age cutoff is?
From my experience (and I've been working in bars for quite a while), about 20.
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(06-21-2010, 06:51 AM)LennyLen Wrote: Quote:I'd love to be a beer PR girl. I wonder what the age cutoff is?
From my experience (and I've been working in bars for quite a while), about 20.
Sigh, about 41 years too late.
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(06-21-2010, 06:51 AM)LennyLen Wrote: Quote:I'd love to be a beer PR girl. I wonder what the age cutoff is?
From my experience (and I've been working in bars for quite a while), about 20.
There are St. Pauli girls and the like working the local bars? Maybe I live in the wrong place. 
But great job, FIFA. A lot more people will know about this (and therefor the beer company) after the girls get arrested on ridiculous charges than would have noticed a few orange miniskirts on the international feed. Then again, with so many empty seats at some of these matches, maybe they would really stand out....
Did South Africa pass this law to get the World Cup, or is ambush marketing considered an epidemic over there?
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Quote:There are St. Pauli girls and the like working the local bars? Maybe I live in the wrong place.
Here, they're Tui girls, but yup they do indeed come out to the bars. Usually whenever they're have a promotion on for a spirit, they'll recruit some young girls and send them out wearing next to nothing to the clubs and bars as well. Even Red Bull does it.
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(06-20-2010, 08:44 PM)--Pete Wrote: EDIT: How are you measuring it as 'biggest'?
Entirely subjectively.  From what I know, it is the largest, i.e. the most participants and the largest audience.
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Hi,
(06-21-2010, 12:57 PM)Alliera Wrote: (06-20-2010, 08:44 PM)--Pete Wrote: EDIT: How are you measuring it as 'biggest'?
Entirely subjectively. From what I know, it is the largest, i.e. the most participants and the largest audience.
Well, as far as I can see, there are more professional baseball teams in the American and National Leagues combined then there are teams in the World Cup. NASCAR brings in a lot more people than the World Cup. Now, you could argue that the World Cup teams represent all the world's soccer teams. You could argue that car racing is not a sport. Whatever. But I still don't see 'biggest'.
--Pete
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(06-21-2010, 04:31 PM)--Pete Wrote: Hi,
(06-21-2010, 12:57 PM)Alliera Wrote: (06-20-2010, 08:44 PM)--Pete Wrote: EDIT: How are you measuring it as 'biggest'?
Entirely subjectively. From what I know, it is the largest, i.e. the most participants and the largest audience.
Well, as far as I can see, there are more professional baseball teams in the American and National Leagues combined then there are teams in the World Cup. NASCAR brings in a lot more people than the World Cup. Now, you could argue that the World Cup teams represent all the world's soccer teams. You could argue that car racing is not a sport. Whatever. But I still don't see 'biggest'.
--Pete
NASCAR brings in "a lot" more people? What? Over 700 million viewers watched the last World Cup final in 2006. How many people watch NASCAR? 100 million? I'd be surprised if it was that high. As far as I know, American Football is more popular in the US than NASCAR.
As for Baseball, from looking at Wikipedia, there are 14 teams in the American League, and 16 teams in the National League. There were over 200 teams in the qualification for the World Cup, and even if you ignore the ones who didn't make it, there were 32 teams in the finals.
Football is by far the most popular sport in the world.
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(06-21-2010, 04:31 PM)--Pete Wrote: Hi,
(06-21-2010, 12:57 PM)Alliera Wrote: (06-20-2010, 08:44 PM)--Pete Wrote: EDIT: How are you measuring it as 'biggest'?
Entirely subjectively. From what I know, it is the largest, i.e. the most participants and the largest audience.
Well, as far as I can see, there are more professional baseball teams in the American and National Leagues combined then there are teams in the World Cup. NASCAR brings in a lot more people than the World Cup. Now, you could argue that the World Cup teams represent all the world's soccer teams. You could argue that car racing is not a sport. Whatever. But I still don't see 'biggest'.
--Pete
For what it's worth, a couple of quick searches brings up Wiki answers and World's Biggest. Of course, I'm not guaranteeing the veracity, but it seems from those and other online sources anyway that soccer is the consensus.
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(06-20-2010, 12:44 PM)Gnollguy Wrote: Fans appreciate results where the ref is less of a factor more than they are bothered by breaks in flow or slightly longer games. At least that has almost always been the result in US sports, even with some of the clumsier implementations of replay in college sports. It's not perfect, but I think it's better.
That is a long discussion in football. One reason to keep things as they are now is that you have far more emotions among fans.....keeping football the most popoular sport on earth, and a sport with hooliganism under fans.
Second is a more conspiracy theory kind of thing. The more human work, the more possibility you have to influence outcome of matches.
And a final between Brazil and England is financially far more attractive for the FIFA then netherlands-denmark for example.
One thing is very clear is that commerce plays a (too) big role. The bacaria girls incident illustrated this. Nobody would have noticed these girls untill FIFA decided to remove them.....and there you have great advertisement for Bavaria.
Another thing is the choice of referee's. Most people think Fifa's chairman gives referee jobs to countries that vote for him in the next fifa president elections. So the greatest tournament every four years by far doesn't have the best refs. There are referee's from countries like Mali, New Zealand (2), the seychelles and the one from sweden that didn't see Henry's hand ball against Ireland. Countries that don't have very strong competitions and never worked with good pretend divers like the players in Southern Europe and south america.
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Hi,
(06-20-2010, 08:37 PM)Alliera Wrote: But the FIFA World Cup is the biggest sport tournament in the world, . . .
(06-21-2010, 06:43 PM)Treesh Wrote: For what it's worth, a couple of quick searches brings up Wiki answers and World's Biggest. Of course, I'm not guaranteeing the veracity, but it seems from those and other online sources anyway that soccer is the consensus.
Indeed. And had that been the claim, I would have accepted it. Partially because I think it is true and partially because it is hard to define and determine. But the claim was specifically about the World Cup, and of that I am not sure, which is why I asked by what metrics it is 'biggest'. One that I think might qualify is international TV audience. Another might be fan expenditures in travel, trinkets, etc. It might top the list in number of countries represented.
But in number of competitors? Not unless you count all the teams that couldn't make the 32. And in number of spectators? The numbers I see are in the high 10s of thousands for World Cup, and in the low 100s of thousands for NASCAR.
So, yeah, soccer probably is the biggest sport in many ways. But the claim about the World Cup isn't that clear.
--Pete
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(06-21-2010, 08:18 PM)--Pete Wrote: But in number of competitors? Not unless you count all the teams that couldn't make the 32. And in number of spectators? The numbers I see are in the high 10s of thousands for World Cup, and in the low 100s of thousands for NASCAR. You're measuring the number of spectators per event?
I would have thought that the size of the stadium would be the prohibitive factor there. Even the world's largest soccer stadiums (stadii?) barely seat 100,000 people.
-Jester
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