dex puppy

[swirly]

Well this was inspired by some posts over at diabloii.net about making werebears that use knives as weapons and pump dex so that they don't have an AR problem, hit fast, the AR adds more damage due to knives getting .75 damage for each dex point, and have even more defense. So I was thinking that the buriza is already a good weapon for a werewolf to use so why not use it with the same general idea as what they were talking about with the werebear and knives. Crossbows get 1 point of damage for each point in dex I believe so that should work well and the buriza hits the fastest breakpoint with nothing in it (well you can shave 1 point off the speed of the normal attack of fury, but not off the 4 fury attacks so close enough I think).

This also will go well with the fact that I like not to max the werewolf skill itself. 1 point in it with more than 6 from items should be more than enough to max out the skill ias for buriza (I've only done the math for the ik maul not the buriza so this is just an assumption). So that means the only reason to put points in werewolf would be for the AR, but since I will be pumping dex I shouldn't need the extra AR from the skill. This means I can max a different skill. I figure 20 in lycanthropy, 20 in fury, and 20 in oak sage as my main skills. Then I can max grizzly as my extra skill instead of werewolf. Two reasons I figure on using oak sage instead of HoW. First is that half the reason of using HoW is to up your AR, which I won't need. Second is that sage will help my bear stay alive longer to help me keep from getting overwhelmed (though that may not be a problem anyway).

So thats 80 skill points plus 6 prereqs, that means counting the 12 quest skills i can get this at level 75. So levels after that I can put the skill points into feral rage to give me more steal and run walk. If the char gets high enough this could even get maxed too (level 94) and then the rest could go into dire wolves to help my grizzly do more damage or something along those lines.

So lets see figuring level 75 I would have 5 stat points per level so 375 plus 15 from quests so 390 points. Buriza requires 110 strength, but I figure I can were the Mane and prob Wartravelers (since I like magic find). So thats 30 strength points. Which means I need to get my strength to 80. So thats 65 plus the 15 from base, which leaves me 325 stat points. None in energy of course so that just leaves vit and dex. This is the kind of tricky part. How high would it be best to take each. Dex starts at 20 and vit at 25. I could bring dex up to 200 with 180 stat points leaving 145 for vit. So I would end up with 200 dex and 170 vit, not counting the dex from buriza(35) and the ravenfrost(15-20) I would wear. The question I guess with this part is how much vit do I really need? Obviously the more I have the more oak sage will benefit me and the more durable the character will be, but also the more dex I have the more damage I do and so the more life I steal back too. Also if I wear a high def armor the dex might help me get hit less too, but I don't know how much dex it takes to really effect that. I might take vit up to 200 too. At level 80 I could have 200 in both dex and vit not counting items. Then from there I can just put all the remaining points from levels into dex. I need to see how well the build will do with just 100 vit and 150 vit though to make sure the 200 is needed or if the points would be better spent in dex.

So what do you all think of the build? I know it will work cause just a normal werewolf build with buriza works fine so this is just taking that and trying to make it even stronger. As everyone knows buriza is such a cheap weapon, but I think it might be fun to specialize in it with a druid.

edit: added some line breaks and capitalized AR (hope I got them all) to try and make kandrathe a little happier. : )

[kandrathe]

1st, 2 words...

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2nd, 1 word... Edit.

The question I guess with this part is how much vit do I really need?

I would counter, who are you fighting? Do you plan on getting hit alot?

You might find the Dragoon's werebear and werewolf guides very interesting. You are correct that the Burrito Cannon makes for an awesome werebear weapon, as well as most other classes.

[TheDragoon]

I think I got into a discussion about this at the Amazon Basin once. It is definitely a workable situation, though! :)

Here's my 2 cents of advice:

Since you seem to plan on not putting that many points into the Werewolf skill nor will you use Heart of the Wolverine, I'd suggest that you make sure to wear a Ravenfrost ring. With such low skill levels in the Werewolf skill, your main source of AR% will be the skills that you actually attack with (Fury/Feral Rage) and so you might have a similar problem that Werebears have: low AR. Now, granted, all of the dexterity will mostly fix this situation, but you'll also get the extra 15 dexterity from the Ravenfrost and you can never really have too much attack rating.

Next, you might want to spend more points in Feral Rage than usual. Often, people seem to place just a single point into this incredible skill and it works decently well for them, but often this is because they have the huge life bonus of a Wereform. With a lower life total, a higher Feral Rage might be useful (level 10 or so.. this will also give you more AR% when attacking with Feral Rage so it will help keep your hit percentage up).

For overall life total, I would try to shoot for a setup that gives me at least 2000 life, preferably somewhere around 2500 life. :lol: With that much life and the Freezing ability of the Buriza (assuming you don't get way ahead of the mlvl/clvl curve) will allow you to take on most obstacles with relative ease. Charms can be a huge boon here since their effects will be magnified by Oak Sage and Lycanthropy. The one problem here might be if you run into a bunch of physical immunes (and so can't leech back) or an LEB. For the LEB, hunger might be a decent solution (and only requires one point) and in all cases, you might want to think about investing some points in Carrion Vine to keep your life refilling. Then again, the points for the vine might be better spent elsewhere since each corpse won't give you as much life with the lower life total that you'll be playing with. I guess it's a bit of a preference thing here (personally, I opted not to use it).

Is using the Buriza on a Wereform cheap? Perhaps, but it's so much fun that it's hard to pass up! An 8/5/5/5/5 Fury allows you great flexibility during battle as well as a much better response time (which makes the game ~1 million times more fun ;) ). The build most definitely DOES work (I've tried it out myself!) and it is a lot of fun to play around with!

Finally, enjoy your Druid, he should be a blast!

[swirly]

First I agree about the ravenfrost. I actually think its hard for any melee druid to do without one, if for no other reason than the can not be frozen mod. I know there are other places you can get this, but typically I find the ravenfrost the best and it has other useful things lik the dex and AR mods too. So anyway I am going to wear that.

Just to clarify about what level the werewolf skill should end up being with me, I figure on having 8 skill points from items. So that should put me at a level 9 werewolf counting the 1 point I put in it. I think that combined with the dex on my char and from items should provide enough AR. Having not tried it yet though I could be wrong. I guess we will jus thave to wait and see what happens in. : )

Now as to feral rage. I quite agree about putting more points in it. Thats why I figured on maxing it after I did my other main skills. Starting to pump it at level 75 may be a little late, but I think I should be able to make do with a level 9 feral rage until that point.

I also agree with you on not using carrion vine. With the various druids I have made so far I just find that the vine doesn't really end up being needed. I'd rather just stick that point in feral rage and steal the life back myself.

As to the 2000 life part, I'm not sure how much vit it will take to get that and don't feel like figuring it out at the moment. : ) My plan for now is to get it to about 100 vit and then leave it until I start feeling like I need more. When I get my dex to 200 I'll prob stop spending points so and see how things work. That way I can determine the best way to go and have the points still available to spend.

Now one final note. You say "An 8/5/5/5/5 Fury", but doesn't a buriza give a 9/5/5/5/5 Fury unless you put something in it to speed it up? I'm thinking the 9/5/5/5/5 should be plenty fast and then I can put a perfect skull in it to supply the little bit of mana leach that will keep fury and feral going. The mana per kill on the Mane might be enough, but I figure it would just be easier to get a lil steal and not have to worry about it. The only other socketing way to get mana steal is a vex and I can't quite afford to get one of those. : )

edit: cut out the reply to two people in one message and made each their own reply

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Morning, Gents.

Feral Rage is indeed a wonderous skill, but still isn't applicable for all situations. Certainly it is the skill that deserves the most attention once you've reached your projected peak. I try to keep my Feral charged constantly... being addicted to both the huge leech and the amazing boost in speed. But what about running into the packs of the undead? I'm referring to the crunchy ones that don't provide leeching... not the squishy ones that do.

In that situation, a single point invested into a Carrion Vine, allowing your skill-adders to pad, can make the difference. Wiggles would be working away.. busting corpses and maintaining your red orb, all the while that you're busy knocking down walking piles of bones.

Of course, my experience with this is reflective of an Open wolf.. functioning under Players 8. Stealing back 5 or 6% of THAT much monster-life certainly makes a different number than what a realm wolf might see. It not uncommon for a single smashed skeleton to yield 100+ life via Carrion Vine.

Of course, this is all rather moot. One could simply drink a pot as well. ;)

I'd recommend a hunting expedition for Ancient Kaa the Souless before you judge your wuff as "able to handle anywhere".

*tips helm*

[swirly]

Yeah I agree that the lack of leaching from skeletons can be a pain. The vine is also useful with them because it can get rid of there corpses. Typically there are other things to leach from in areas with skeletons though: zombies, unravelors, the spear guys, the multi-armed guys, etc. So typically there is enough to leach off of that the fact that you can't leach from the skeletons themselves is just a minor annoyance. You just have to make sure to not kill the guys you can leach off of right away so that when you are done with the skeletons you can go leach back any life you lost. Thats just my own experience though.

As to being able to play everywhere. I know he will have problems with anything that is immune to physical. In low player games the buriza should do enough damage to kill them, but as the number of players increase I will have much more of a problem. I could put a baranar's star and tiamat's rebuke on weapon switch just for physical immunes. It might actually help me stay alive longer against them too because the dex should up my blocking rate. Though if I remember correctly tiamat's rebuke has a pretty low blocking rate. I'll just have to be more careful in places that have physical immunes.

[swirly]

I did in fact forget to meantion that this would be PvM and would hopefully be able to play most areas, though obviously would have problems with physical immunes. So that kind of answers the who I will be fighting part of it. As to reading TheDragoon's guides, I have read them several times and he is actually the one that helped me calculate how much SIAS you need for the IK Maul to reach its max speed (and corrected me putting a space in his name hehe). They are very informative though and I rely on them whenever I am making a shapeshifting druid.

[TheDragoon]

Might I add that people often scoff at Carrion Vine after using it because they don't really notice the effect that it has. Since it is not really something you control, people often overlook its use, thinking that all that life they keep gaining back is from Feral Rage when, in fact, a good portion of it is from the vine. :)

[TheDragoon]

Just to clarify about what level the werewolf skill should end up being with me, I figure on having 8 skill points from items. So that should put me at a level 9 werewolf counting the 1 point I put in it. I think that combined with the dex on my char and from items should provide enough AR. Having not tried it yet though I could be wrong. I guess we will jus thave to wait and see what happens in. : )

Again, another solution here is to try and keep pace with the mlvl/clvl curve, allowing you to keep yourself at 95% hit percentage.

Oh, adding in a little more here, you said you weren't sure if your SI would be maxed with Buriza. Well, a slvl 9 Werewolf adds 56% SIAS. Buriza is base -10, so you need 75 - 46 = 29% EIAS to max that out. The 80% WIAS on the Buriza does this easily. :lol:

Now one final note. You say "An 8/5/5/5/5 Fury", but doesn't a buriza give a 9/5/5/5/5 Fury unless you put something in it to speed it up? I'm thinking the 9/5/5/5/5 should be plenty fast and then I can put a perfect skull in it to supply the little bit of mana leach that will keep fury and feral going. The mana per kill on the Mane might be enough, but I figure it would just be easier to get a lil steal and not have to worry about it. The only other socketing way to get mana steal is a vex and I can't quite afford to get one of those. : )

True, but I tend to use Feral Rage a lot and a 9 frame attack kind of bothers me. :) Thus, I would shael that thing, but if you can stand the 9 frame Feral Rage and want to use the skull as your source of Mana Leech, then it sounds like a good idea. However, if you will be getting any amount of mana leech on your other gear, it would seem a waste to socket a skull since the life leech is rather pathetic compared to Feral Rage and you really only need one source of mana leech for a Wereform. :)

[swirly]

You know I didn't even consider the speed at which feral rage would attack. So that is a good point. It also means I can just give him the shaeled buriza I have on my werebear. He doesn't use it anymore anyway since I have him using a shaeled IK Maul. So that will work out for the best anyway. I'll have to keep my eyes out for a good ias jewel though. I had one I found that was 15 ias and 15 to all resists that I put in my werebears Mane. Another one like that would be very nice. The odds of me finding a second one are slim though. The shaeled buriza I already have should do fine though and I can probably just get by with the mana per kill from the mane.

I'm probably not going to outfit him as strongly as he really could be cause I want to give him a good amount of magicfind. I was thinking buriza, Mane, maras, ravenfrost, bk wedding band, chance guard, war travs, skulder's ire, and goldwrap. The main problem with that is my resistances will be pretty low. I'll probably socket the skulders with an um or a resistance jewel (if I can find one with a second modifier). So 23 from my maras, 30 from the Mane, and 15 from socketing the skulders makes 68 to all resists. 30 from the 3 quests makes 98. So he would just slightly be in the negative. I was debating putting a shael in the Mane, but I might have to settle for putting resistance in that too. Another 15 would bump me up to 113 which on hell would put me at 13 to all. I think a wolf can get by with that since he has a good amount of leach. I'd prefer a little higher, but I'm not sure I want to give up the skill from the wedding band for resistance on a ring. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to see how things play to figure that out.

The build does kind of suit me though. I hjave found in alot of games I tend to gravitate towards the characters that are kind of fragile, but hit really hard. The ones that if you get really good at then you are fine, but when first learning them its tough cause you die easy. Thats why I am seriously considering leaving his vit at 100 and putting the rest in dex. It will make him a little more that style. I just worry that between the lower life and resistance he might end up being too fragile, so its all kind of still being debated in my head. : )

[kandrathe]

Don't forget shimmering charms.

[swirly]

Well the thing with charms is that I typically don't like to go out of my way to get them. If I happen to run across some then I will pick them up and keep them, but shimmering ones don't tend to drop all that often.