Assassin Questions

[Taem]

This will be the first Assassin I've ever seriously attempted and I am greatly looking forward to her completion, however am having much difficulty deciding where to invest my points. Almost every pure martial build I've read on the net is different with vastly opposing logic and gear choices, for example, some tell you to max Burst of Speed and focus on damage reduction gear while others tell you to max Fade and get IAS gear. Some suggest 1 point into Death Sentry to pop the boddies on the floor, while others say don't waste a single point into traps. And the finishing blow is confusing for me; so there is kick damage?

So here is a list of my questions:
1a) If I have three charges of Tiger Strike and use any of the kicking finishing moves, will I do total damage based on my claw, or my boot, or both???
1b) Do the finishing moves get use of Deadly Strike, Crushing Blow, etc.?
2a) I've noticed that Martial Arts skill and traps do not get added damage from +lighting% items, such as the Griffith helm. So does Dragon Tail get added fire damage?
2b) Is Dragon Tail affected by Pierce, so if I used a Razor Tail and switched to a Kuku bow for my finishing move, would the fire explosion pierce?
3) What does the extra kicks do in Dragon Talon? Is that like Zeal or Fury? The description is exceptionally vague. And is that damage listed for Dragon Talon for all the kicks togeather, or for each kick seperatly?
4) In your opinions, is it worth having two claws and puting points into Claw Mastery and Weapon Block?
5) Any skill point and gear suggestions you might have for me?

Thanks for all your valued input ahead of time guys. And FYI, I've already got my assassin up to level 34 and decided to put 20 into Tiger Strike, 20 into Dragon Tail, 20 Venom and Fade, and 1 into Shadow Master, Cloak of Shadows, and Mind Blast. If I had more points, I think I'd like to max Cloak of Shadows. This is just my test build though and I've really like to hear more input. Thanks again.

[Hammerskjold]

If I had more points, I think I'd like to max Cloak of Shadows. This is just my test build though and I've really like to hear more input. Thanks again.

Personally, I'd keep CoS at one hard point. IIRC, CoS duration is not affected by difficulty level, at least from what I just tested about 5 minutes ago before writing this. It was in SP, since I don't have an old enough Assasin this season.

Another thing you may already found out, you can't cast another CoS until the last one wears out. On paper having a high duration CoS looks good. In practice, with 2 test builds I had, I found the reverse. I found it more practical to have just 1 hard point in CoS, and being able to cast it again after 8-9 seconds, rather than having to wait and wait until I could cast a high level CoS again. YMMV.

[Taem]

I found a few answers to my questions if anyone is interested:

1a) If I have three charges of Tiger Strike and use any of the kicking finishing moves, will I do total damage based on my claw, or my boot, or both???

A) Some things I've found out through experimentation:
*CHARGES* On the Arreat Summit, it says if you make a normal attack and have charges, you will release your charges however I found that this does not apply to missile weapons as they will not trigger your charges.

*CHARGE + FINISHING MOVES* If your finishing move has multiple attacks, only the first attack will get use of your built up charges.

*KICKS* All kicks do kicking damage. Each boot does different kicking damage, but that damage is not listed on the item. To view the kicking damage, you need to check Arreat Summit.

>> Kick Damage
>> MinDamage=(str+dex-20)/4)*(100+skill_bonus)/100 + BootMinDam*(100+str*StrBonus/100+skill_bonus)/100
>> MaxDamage=(str+dex-20)/3)*(100+skill_bonus)/100 + BootMaxDam*(100+str*StrBonus/100+skill_bonus)/100

>> What doesn't work
>> Weapon damage
>> Pierce Target
>> Deadly Strike (includes Critical Strike from Claw Mastery)

*CONJECTURE* Based on what I've read and seen, your charges will do damage based on how you release the charge. For example, if you make a normal attack and have charges built up, you should do all your normal melee weapon damage with the added charge effect factored in. However if you use a kicking finishing move, your charges will be added into the kicking damage and you won't get the benefit of the modifiers on your melee weapon.

1b) Do the finishing moves get use of Deadly Strike, Crushing Blow, etc.?

A) Properties that do not work with kicks:
Deadly Strike
Critical Strike
Enhanced Damage from equipment
+% Damage to Demons/Undead
+ Min / Max damage

2a) Does Dragon Tail get added fire damage from items that add X% to fire damage?

A) UNKNOWN

2b) Is Dragon Tail affected by Pierce, so if I used a Razor Tail would the fire explosion pierce?

A) UNKNOWN

3) What does the extra kicks do in Dragon Talon, and is the listed damage Dragon Talon added for all the kicks together, or for each kick separately?

A) The listed number of kicks is the amount of kicking attacks you make to a single enemy; if your enemy dies before the listed number of kicks is finished, your attacks ends without finishing the remaining kicks. The damage from Dragon Talon is added to each successful kicking attack, however damage from charges is only added to the first kick.

[Taem]

After careful examination of all finishing moves, it seems to me that if you derive most of your damage from a non-claw weapon, then your better off without even using finishing moves at all. If you use claws, then Dragon Claw would definitely be the best because the description claims that the charges you have built up add to each claws attack, and you make two attacks which could be quite a bit of damage, but still a 1-point wonder, as the added damage from Dragon Claw at level 20 is laughable; also, you will have to additionally invest into Weapon Block, severely limiting your skill points early on. If Dragon Tail actually pierced and received added damage from fire% enhancement items, then combined with Crushing Blow it would be the best finishing move to use on mobs, however with a 4-yard radius and the UNKNOWN of it's ability to pierce, I'd say this still is utterly useless. That leaves only Dragon Talon as a useful boss killing skill assuming you have lots of Crushing Blow. Other than Crushing Blow, the damage from kicking is pathetic, even at 2000% and especially because you don't get +damage or +damage% added to your kick from items.

For my personal tastes, I'd go with no finishing move, or Dragon Talon with lots of crushing blow. Disappointing since you can't be an effective mob killer without traps:(.

[the Langolier]

If Dragon Tail actually pierced and received added damage from fire% enhancement items, then combined with Crushing Blow it would be the best finishing move to use on mobs, however with a 4-yard radius and the UNKNOWN of it's ability to pierce, I'd say this still is utterly useless.

Talking about pierce with this skill is nonsensical. It's an AoE fire explosion like fireball - it will hit everything within the radius, pierce has nothing to do with it. The fire damage is based on 50% of the physical damage you do to the target, which is then applied to the area of effect (including the target you release on). Crushing blow never works in an AoE.

Kicking damage is on the low end (and based on your boot type), but it's not that bad. End game it's usually about 1k per kick for each kick (four or five).

[Taem]

Talking about pierce with this skill is nonsensical. It's an AoE fire explosion like fireball - it will hit everything within the radius, pierce has nothing to do with it. The fire damage is based on 50% of the physical damage you do to the target, which is then applied to the area of effect (including the target you release on). Crushing blow never works in an AoE.

Kicking damage is on the low end (and based on your boot type), but it's not that bad. End game it's usually about 1k per kick for each kick (four or five).

You are aware that the Raven's Claw is a much coveted item in D2, right? It's because of its ability to give arrows an "exploding" quality that, when combined with Enchant, can be quite deadly to mobs. One of the hidden benefits of exploding arrows is when combined with Pierce, it will actually pierce an enemy doing further damage, and can even pierce the next enemy and the next, albeit at a lower pierce % for each target pierced. I've decimated mobs the size of most of my screen with only two arrows from a Kuku bow before. With all of my Enchantresses, I use a Kuku bow (50% pierce) with a Razortail belt (33% pierce) for taking out large mobs, and then switch over to a Hexblade for dishing out the dirty damage to single opponents. I'll let you know from much experience that pierce does work with Exploding Arrow and very well so too. Also, Act 1 Mercenaries can also use a Kuku bow and do exploding arrow with Pierce, as this has been a point of contention before. If this piercing ability worked with Pierce like Exploding Arrow did, then it might actually be a useful skill, however as I see it now, it's not worth the skill point investment.

[the Langolier]

Um... what? What does arrows have to do with anything? Dragon Tail is a kick finishing move, not a missle attack. Pierce on exploding arrows works (and is only effective with enchant) because the arrow itself continues through the target, hitting another target and triggering another explosion. With Dragon Tail, you are only kicking one enemy which triggers one fire explosion.

Perhaps you were thinking if you were using a Kuku bow and using Dragon Tail that you'd be shooting arrows?

[Taem]

Um... what? What does arrows have to do with anything? Dragon Tail is a kick finishing move, not a missle attack. Pierce on exploding arrows works (and is only effective with enchant) because the arrow itself continues through the target, hitting another target and triggering another explosion. With Dragon Tail, you are only kicking one enemy which triggers one fire explosion.

Perhaps you were thinking if you were using a Kuku bow and using Dragon Tail that you'd be shooting arrows?

Using your own example, the Pierce "should" only pierce one target (the first one shot at), and keep piercing the target behind that and so on on each successful pierce. In theory, Exploding Arrow should only be applied to the first attack also. But this is not what I've seen happen with Exploding Arrow at all - the explosion itself appears to pierce any target it explodes on, causing another exploding arrow on the target dirrectly behind that. When I say I take out a mob with one exploding arrow, I'm not talking about making a straight line of piercing exploding arrows, I'm talking about clearing the entire screen with one arrow! Try it with Hero Editor with and without Pierce and you'll see to what I am referring. I'm not discounting that I may be firing fast enough to not really tell if it's just one arrow piercing a mob or not, but that's now how it seems. And why should each pierce cause another exploding arrow? Is Pierce broken when used in conjunction with Exploding Arrow? Perhaps, but I was hoping Dragon Tail would be similar, but alas, it is not.

[Taem]

Over the course of this last month and a half, I've lost 6 assassins in a row back-to-back, all past level 60. I decided it was time to take a different approach to the pure Martial build and see what else was out there. I read more assassin guides on the net and found a build I really like - in theory anyways - that uses Dragon Tail and Death Sentry. The premise seems to be to max Death Sentry, put 18 points into Fire Trap so Death Sentry will shoot more, and the rest into Dragon Tail and Venom with the most amount of Crushing Blow possible. I haven't yet decided on Fade or Burst of Speed, but will most likely make my decision after I get all my gear on - most likely my FIRST mistake, as I always maxed Fade before the rest of my skills. So far, this sin is level 54 and leeching well :P. I've maxed Death Sentry and Fire Trap first and have been using a Kuku bow while enchanted to kill. I cast level 1 Burst of Speed, lay my trap amidst a mob, then set to work with some exploding arrows. I must admit I'm quite impressed with the carnage and think this is a very viable build so far, without even having sunk a point into Dragon Tail yet. Having a ton of fun and glad I decided to give the sin one more try as she is the only class I never felt like I mastered. Once I finish her to a satisfactory level, then I'm going to try Uber Trist, as I have never before attempted it.

[Taem]

Over the course of this last month and a half, I've lost 6 assassins in a row back-to-back, all past level 60. I decided it was time to take a different approach to the pure Martial build and see what else was out there. I read more assassin guides on the net and found a build I really like - in theory anyways - that uses Dragon Tail and Death Sentry. The premise seems to be to max Death Sentry, put 18 points into Fire Trap so Death Sentry will shoot more, and the rest into Dragon Tail and Venom with the most amount of Crushing Blow possible. I haven't yet decided on Fade or Burst of Speed, but will most likely make my decision after I get all my gear on - most likely my FIRST mistake, as I always maxed Fade before the rest of my skills. So far, this sin is level 54 and leeching well :P. I've maxed Death Sentry and Fire Trap first and have been using a Kuku bow while enchanted to kill. I cast level 1 Burst of Speed, lay my trap amidst a mob, then set to work with some exploding arrows. I must admit I'm quite impressed with the carnage and think this is a very viable build so far, without even having sunk a point into Dragon Tail yet. Having a ton of fun and glad I decided to give the sin one more try as she is the only class I never felt like I mastered. Once I finish her to a satisfactory level, then I'm going to try Uber Trist, as I have never before attempted it.

Works exceptionally well! Heres what I do:

1) Cast Cloak of Shadows on a mob
2) Throw up my Death Sentries (5-max)
3) Rush in and start Dragon Tailing enemies to death near where I set up the traps.

Conclusion: Bodies start dropping, then popping causeing more bodies to drop. The crushing blow is amazing at killing bosses also. It's not only a viable build, but an extreemly effective one all around in PvM. I will attempt the ubers with this build when I find enough keys.

I decided to go with BoS to get a 7-FPS dragon tail with 2-FPS kicks, and between and upgraded Gore Riders and lower end crushing-blow Last Wish in a phase blade (not the easiest thing to come by), I'm at 75% CB. Unfortunatly I died in Hell Ball Throne while engaging a group of enemies after a Oblivion Knight reanimated then casted Iron Maiden on me, however the good news is I rebuilt after having my body looted. I would reccommend this build to anyone.

[Thenryb]

[quote name='MEAT' date='Feb 19 2009, 08:25 PM' post='161890']
So, do you use any charge-up skills or just use dragon tail as primary attack?

[Taem]

So, do you use any charge-up skills or just use dragon tail as primary attack?

No, no charge up skills whatsoever. Just Dragon Tail as my primary attack. Works expertly. I don't even know what the charge-ups are for - they seem completely useless to me unless you want Phoenix Strike, but even then pretty useless.

[Taem]

So, I'm level 88 now and have already maxed all my essential skills for my build long ago. I was at an impasse, undecided which direction to take my assassin; should I max my Shadow Master? Oh I hate how she keeps casting Mind Blast. Maybe I should max Shadow Warrior? Nah, each point only increases life, but I use her as cannon fodder. So what should I do? After several contemplative weeks of turmoil, I decided on Blade Shield and Blade Fury. I sunk one point into each, feeling apprehensive at the least about wasting two much coveted skill points, however was more than pleasantly surprised to find out Blade Fury was an extremely effective killer! Now I have a way to take out Oblivion Knights without having to worry about an Iron Maiden ruining my day! The Blade Shield is a nice addition, although I have no idea if it's effective or not as I almost never get hit anyways. And I finally did the ubers, four times with a good friend; he was using a Smiter with 85% Crushing Blow and I was using Dragon Talon with 75% Crushing Blow. After receiving a complimentary Battle Orders, Battle Cry, and Shout from his Barbarian, we were ready for the ubers. Upon entering, I was terrified, having seen many hardcore friends show up in channel dressed in the dreaded black robes, however I tell you, I've never seen Uber Diablo's life drop so fast before as it did with myself and my friend attacking him! The whole battle with U.D. lasted less than one minute. Similar experience with Baal before we moved on to the final boss. Now with Mephisto, I took a decidedly different approach, as I've heard he has a knack for the 1-hit kill on characters with low resists combined with his Conviction aura. We contemplated his paladin using Salvation, but instead I decided to use Fade (instead of Burst of Speed) and we had no problems whatsoever taking him down in no time. A very fun experience and an extremely deadly team, the Paladin Smiter and the Assassin Dragon Tail. Would recommend to anyone serious about teaming up against the Ubers!