Be careful of what you wish for

[WarBlade]

And, please advise, how the Polynesian cultural model spread and influenced the rest of the world, I would appreciate any light you can shed on that.

Firstly there is no one Polynesian culture, but a wide range of cultures, some of which have some similarities. In a very loose way there are also some much more vague cultural connections that have been identified between some islanders and some American Indians.

Secondly, I never suggested that elements of Polynesian culture has spread and influenced the rest of the world.

Although since you brought it up, as time passes I see more and more pieces of Maori influence slipping quietly into the world . . . :unsure:

- Robbie Williams and recently Mike Tyson both sport Maori-style tatoos. Robbie's was done by a Maori. Mike's is a rough stylistic emulation applied over the left eye (which he referred to as from the Mayan people of New Zealand - the cretin)
- Mr Lifto (of that freakshow circus that appeared on an X Files episode) claims to have "a Maori tribal tatoo" on his face . . . or at least that's what he thinks it is.
- The words are turning up a lot these days too. Lego has a small group of characters who have names taken directly from Maori mythology. Diablo 2, like some other fantasy products before, makes common useage of the Maori word "Mana".

Oops. Now that I've brough that one up on a D2 forum . . .
Mana:
1. Authority, Control
2. Influence, Prestige Power
3. Psychic force
4. Effectual, Binding, Authoritive
5. Having influence or power
6. Vested with effective authority

etc. It has a rather strange and legthy dictionary entry I'm afraid. The most common context is when it's used to describe someone of high esteem. Someone can have mana based on personal strength or it can also be viewed as an heretory thing.

[WarBlade]

It is easy to register here as well, I just wondered if there is some fine or penalty for not following one's legal responsibility to enrol.

Probably. But the kind of person who'd pay for a fine over a minute of pen scribbling is the kind of person who you'd expect to rack up all manner of other infringements, so they'd probably be twiddling their thumbs in jail already.

And who'd want people like that casting a vote anyway? :lol:

[Occhidiangela]

I was not asking you, (I was baiting Atomic KitKat) but thanks for the exposition anyway. My reply had been to his post that started:

Just remembered something
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If memory serves, Polynesians are among the few who actually had female leaders on a consistent basis. Maybe THEY are the ones who should be applauded as models of the modern feminine status.
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Are you sure that the 'Mana' used in RPG fantasy games comes from the Polynesian word root, and not from an Indian/Indo European word root? For some reason, I had thought that Mana in the RPG's came from either a Hindu or Bhuddist term or phrase. I might be thinking about some other term, caffeine level low at the moment.

My Websters 9th Collegiate has only two entries, though, a rather convoluted 'Melanesian related to Hawaiian and Maori,' initial English usage ~1843.

1. Power of elemental forces of nature embodied in an object or person (Like an Elemental Druid!)

2. moral authority, or prestige (Akin to having "big or powerful medicine" for Plains Indian)

In re tatoos, IIRC my nautical heritage, the habit of tatooing themselves spread rapidly among sailors who had visited the South Pacific. The peoples of many of the various Island families indulged. What I don't recall is whether or not that is where it started. I really ought to know this, given my years at sea . . . one of my books at home spells out how the whalers were some of the original American sailors to sport tatoos.

And as for Mike Tyson's Mayan tatoo, well, that malapropism is about par for the course for the world's finest examples inane public expression. Maybe Mr. Lennox Lewis knocked a few more parts loose than we had previously suspected . . .

[WarBlade]

Are you sure that the 'Mana' used in RPG fantasy games comes from the Polynesian word root, and not from an Indian/Indo European word root?  For some reason, I had thought that Mana in the RPG's came from either a Hindu or Bhuddist term or phrase.  I might be thinking about some other term, caffeine level low at the moment. 

My Websters 9th Collegiate has only two entries, though, a rather convoluted 'Melanesian related to Hawaiian and Maori,' initial English usage ~1843.

1.  Power of elemental forces of nature embodied in an object or person (Like an Elemental Druid!)

2.  moral authority, or prestige (Akin to having "big or powerful medicine" for Plains Indian)

It hadn't occured to me until last year actually, despite having seen it as early as 1990, but after someone linked to the word on an Internet-based pronounciation guide, the parts of the puzzle slipped into place. The connection became pretty obvious.

In re tatoos, IIRC my nautical heritage, the habit of tatooing themselves spread rapidly among sailors who had visited the South Pacific.  The peoples of many of the various Island families indulged.  What I don't recall is whether or not that is where it started.  I really ought to know this, given my years at sea . . . one of my books at  home spells out how the whalers were some of the original American sailors to sport tatoos.

At one point roughly a thousand years ago some of the Polynesian people were traveling quite freely about the Pacific. Where specific elements of each culture started is anyone's guess, but the only other tatooing I'm aware of in the Pacific is Tongan which puts the art on the thigh and buttocks. Maori moko is a predominantly facial art.

I suppose various people of the Pacific were swapping cultural elements from time to time.

[Jonathon Spectre]

Too many ignorant, uninformed citizens who have no stake in the system are voting now.

I wonder who they're voting for?

JS
"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly: It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."
--Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister

[Occhidiangela]

I seem to remember from the Polynesian Cultural Center (Oahu) presentation, also practiced the facial tatoos. That seems consistent with what you suggest, that the inter-island trade and travel would offer a great opportunity to share ideas on body decoration.

On second thought, having consulted my handy Atlas, the Marquesas are in the northeastern sector of the old French Polynesia, at the extreme end of the "idea chain" from your North Island. They are a considerable jaunt from Tonga as well. Hmmmm, given that many accepted that the folks in Hawaii originally came from Bora Bora, I don't guess that such a spread of ideas is that far fetched. Maybe they came up with that on their own.

Those folk were bold mariners, at any rate.

"We don't need no stinking GPS!!"

*Grin*

For some reason, I just had a vision of a Tongan Biker flash across my brain.

[--Pete]

Hi,

The quote was my abbreviated translation of a passage from A History of Italy by some author whose name I don't remember (and this connection is too slow to search). Your version is very like mine, and equally good (or bad).

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

I now understand your original arguing point. I went and re read the whole discourse to try and figure out how we got into that.

THE model

versus

A model.

The latter would have been a better choice of article. :o

[WarBlade]

Yup :lol:

[Dani]

Even without the ERA, women's role in American society, opportunities for self determination, and personal sovereignty are THE model for the rest of the modern world, including our lovely NATO allies.

Heh. Compared to many European nations, US was, and still is backward when it comes to a equalitarian (that looks disturbingly similar to equestarian. :P ) society. Example for the rest of the free world. Hmm, sometimes I think you're a bit too patriotic for your own good. Pick a Scandinavian country as "the example", any will do.

[kandrathe]

Sverige! But, IMHO, Denmark seems more liberated. :P All my ancesters were from what is now known as Sweden, but a good chunk of the "dark ages" were dominated by the barbarian Ostrogoths, Visigoths, and later Huns. I believe that the foundation of modern European women's rights (and attitudes) lies in the coda of law set down in the "Codex Theodosianus". That was then exported to America by Europeans. Contrast that with the Babylonian "Code of Hammarabi". My refelction is that in a land dominated by violence where "might makes right", the weak become subjegated. Only when a land is peaceful, will law and reason return. Then, it seems for the most part, humanity from all cultures return to a mode of tolerance and support for human rights.

[Occhidiangela]

I am as patrioitic as I need to be, and my comments there are based on personal observation and experience. The word is 'egalitarian,' and I find it humorous that any socialist would consider its society advanced, in that the maternal/paternal nature of the state citizen relationship stifles as much as it nurtures.

Take your line of wash elsewhere.

[monkeycid]

Denmark more liberated? Possibly in regard to alcohol (hell, I could walk into a store and buy strong beer there), but have you ever seen their ever rising number of "national socialists"? (Read: racists)

Edit: If you want the model for women's rights, look at Finland.