Building Own PC

[Roland]

I have never once had to juggle drivers. The same can not be said for ATI drivers, and what's more, I STILL hear complaints from game programmers about ATI cards / drivers. When the programmers are putting out a patch JUST to fix ATI cards, there's something wrong.

What you noticed on the gaming forums regarding juggling of Detonator drivers was when the Detonator 40 Beta drivers came out. They were, to put it mildly, awful. The next STABLE release solved ALOT of the issues (mayhap all of them), and improved performance, to boot. THAT was the problem: for the first time, their Beta drivers were just really #$%&ty. Sometimes, like with all Betas, they're not top-notch, but get ironed out b ythe next stable release. This batch was just horrid, and nVIDIA was aware of it as soon as they were released. And, they worked to VERY quickly get out the next stable batch. I don't think it took them more than a week or two to fix everything.

ATI drivers may be getting better. I can't speak really. All I know is I have never had a problem with an nVIDIA card (been using them for 5+ years), and I've always had problems with ATI cards (used for 6+ months). And, every game I've seen to date that had problems with a specific card was always either 3dfx (back in the old days), or ATI. Still true to this day.

[Roland]

ATI: You'd have to ask around, but anything 8500+ is a good bet.

nVIDIA: I run a GeForce4 Ti 4200 64MB (128 is NOT worth it), at 4x AGP (they have an 8x AGP out now in 64MB form, too). Suits me QUITE well. If you want more power, go for it, but I'd expect this card to last me a good couple years. And, it's quiet, despite being a pretty big card. ;)

Overclocking is a tricky business. Chances are, your friend was a moron about it. Two things to remember when overclocking: 1) BABY STEPS. 1 - 5 MHz at a time. And, as SOON as you see any problems, tone it back down to the last, stable setting you had. 2) Added cooling. A few mini-heatsinks on the microprocessors, a better fan, and a better heatsink on the main CPU will all help the card. Not only will it keep it in better shape normally (more cooling always helps, even if it's not needed), but it will ensure that you can safely overclock it without damaging the card, and without shortening its life span.

Don't be afraid of overclocking. Be afraid of being a moron about it. ;) I don't fear knives. I fear what my hand might do with it if I get careless.

[Dani]

Don't get an MX card whatever you do.

[Dani]

When the programmers are putting out a patch JUST to fix ATI cards, there's something wrong.

What you noticed on the gaming forums regarding juggling of Detonator drivers was when the Detonator 40 Beta drivers came out.  All I know is I have never had a problem with an nVIDIA card (been using them for 5+ years),

Hmm, different experiences.

First of all, pretty much any game that has troubleshooting included in it's readme has known problems for Radeon 7xxx cards, but these do not apply to 8500 and above (new chip and all). Furthermore, those same readmes usually have known issues for certain detonators and/or certain manufacturer GF cards.

As for detonator juggling, the impression comes from whenever a GF user is asking for support on various gaming forums and usenet newsgroups, the first advice from various people is to get either new dets, or old, and the version numbers tend to vary a lot...from 30.xx to 4x.xx

ATI drivers may be getting better. I can't speak really.

Since early summer last year, I haven't heard of any significant problems with the Catalyst drivers. Haven't had a single hitch myself either.

and I've always had problems with ATI cards (used for 6+ months). And, every game I've seen to date that had problems with a specific card was always either 3dfx (back in the old days), or ATI. Still true to this day.

Hmm, interesting. You know, I used to have a Voodoo 3, and now have a Radeon 8500, and well I've considered myself lucky because most games that came out when Voodoo3 was still a relevant card, seem to have been optimized for it, ofcource the last couple years the card hasn't been relevant so there were issues. As for the Radeon, had it for a year, updated drivers from time to time, but not watching when new ones come out...and haven't had a single problem that would've been caused by the card or it's drivers.

That said, I've hardly had any problems at all caused by my rig, since it was built (by myself) from reliable parts to be "hitch-free".

afterthought: AFAIK Diamond Monster etc. voodoo cards had several issues that other Voodoo cards did not have...so the problem with Voodoo then, and GeForce now, might well be the builds different manufactuers used.

[Roland]

Problems with Voodoo these days are just because they're outdated. It's not a common occurrence by any means, but on some older (and occasionally newer) software, you'll see it crop up once in awhile.

As for the Detonator juggling, I'd bet my money the guys asking for advice, or the guys giving it, are idiots. Or both. ;) Then again, I've never had a problem with my drivers. Ever. nVIDIA cards are one of the few components that HAVEN'T gone belly up on me in all my PC years. :D

As for ATI... First (and last) ATI card I ever owned was what came with this PC: a Rage 128 Pro series card. Namely, the XPert 2000 Pro. Powered by ATI, not built by. Thing's alright, but my nVIDIA TNT2 Vanta LT, a 16 MB card, does a equal (or better) job as that 32 MB ATI. So, I have always been, and probably always will be, an nVIDIA follower. Never had good luck with ATI, and never had bad luck with nVIDIA. :D I'm fiercely loyal, and fiercely stubborn, so when I find something good, I stick it to the end.

[Dani]

Problems with Voodoo these days are just because they're outdated.

Very true. I mean't the past when two thirds of the games had troubleshooting warnings for:
Diamond Monster 3D vol *xyz*
Mattrox Millenium *xyz*

As for the Detonator juggling, I'd bet my money the guys asking for advice, or the guys giving it, are idiots. Or both. ;)

This is very possible. Sometimes game makers tell people to get 30.xx det's for some game...but then we all know game designers can be the cream of the idiotpile sometimes. ;)

As for ATI... First (and last) ATI card I ever owned was what came with this PC: a Rage 128 Pro series card. Namely, the XPert 2000 Pro. Powered by ATI, not built by. Thing's alright, but my nVIDIA TNT2 Vanta LT, a 16 MB card, does a equal (or better) job as that 32 MB ATI. So, I have always been, and probably always will be, an nVIDIA follower. Never had good luck with ATI, and never had bad luck with nVIDIA. :D I'm fiercely loyal, and fiercely stubborn, so when I find something good, I stick it to the end.

hehe. I have an aversion for NVidia. Used 3dfx before, and ATi now. I'd just like to say, that it's no wonder you had bad experience with ATi, they became good only about a year ago, when they finaly made a chip that's top of the line, and realized they really have to do lots of tuning to keep the customers happy. (And it helps tons that they now have a much larger customer base...ie. free testers...it's the same with hardware as it is with software.) :)

My personal lack of problems with my vid cards might as well be that I only use Intel processors and Asus mobos...most hardware problems seem to have AMD and especially Via linked to them.

[Roland]

Intel & Asus. Ain't nothin' finer. :D

I've always used Intel. Probably always will. Unfortunately, this baby's got some cheap mobo. I'll get a good Asus someday. Hell, I'll probably buy alot of them in my days. :D Just love 'em.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Last time I was putting together a computer, I couldn't find an Asus motherboard without at least on board audio. The trend to put everything on the mo-board has, IMHO, gone too far. Audio and video for sure don't belong there. Neither does a network interface. And, while I know they can all be turned off, I don't want to pay the price for something I don't want. Other than that, I've been moderately happy with the Asus boards I've bought.

--Pete

[--Pete]

Hi,

I don't know how well PC mice and keyboards work with Macs. However, the monitor should work with either.

What I've been doing for a while is using one monitor, mouse and keyboard with multiple computers. The newest computer is always the game machine and has nearly nothing else on it. It is a "high maintenance" machine since games, demos, and other junk is constantly being installed, upgraded and removed. My second generation back machine is my "work" machine. It has things like office, compilers, etc. Most of that stuff is very stable and that machine requires almost no maintenance (except replacing fans ;) ).

Now, the advantage is that, with three quick key presses, I can switch between the game machine and the work machine. That means that, for instance, I can have Jarulf's (or the Summit) open on one machine while playing on the other.

So, I suggest you look into network components and into KVM switches as well as the new box. Think of an integrated system instead of two stand alone computers. However, I cannot help you with details, since my gear is all a few years old. I can say that my KVM switch (4 computers) is from Belkin and I've never had a bit of trouble with it. And all my network stuff (cable modem, three hubs and all NICs) is from Linksys and it has worked flawlessly. But it's all old, and I am not up to speed on the latest and greatest.

--Pete

[Dani]

Last time I was putting together a computer, I couldn't find an Asus motherboard without at least on board audio.  The trend to put everything on the mo-board has, IMHO, gone too far.

I'm not from the US so the selection here isn't quite as broad (4 or 5 brands, maybe 20 models total in the four local retailers that sell parts and not just brandname ready desktops), but a year ago when I was looking for new mobos, I was unable to find a single one that didn't at least have the AC97 audio chip in them. And that's what I got. I agree wholeheartedly that cramming audio, video, netcard, coffeemachine and whatnot on the mobo is horrible. Not only are they usually inferior to even cheap standalone cards, but they cause problems with other hardware occasionally. Especially one Via board I had 4 years ago, it had onboard audio, and the Bios they had in didn't have "disable onboard audio" option. (and flashing bios while easy always makes me a bit nervous)

[chromios_infinitum]

Hey guys!
Thanks for all the help. I had a friend decide to upgrade his system and so he sold me a few of his parts (new as of November, he really likes to have stuff be top of the line all the time and takes really good care of everything). I am very impressed with this system after using it for only one evening. After everythings said and done I out a little more that 1200 and im broke!

Asus P4T533-C mobo
2x256 Corsair 1066 Rambus
Visiontek Xtasy NVIDIA Geforce4 Ti4600 128mb
Antec 310W PS
Generic Case (semi-old Gateway i guess...but its light and sturdy and has usb x2 firewire x1 in the front)
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop (wireless keyboard and wireless optical mouse)
120Gig maxtor hd
8 gig western digital hd
generic cdrom x52
windows xp professional
19" viewsonic LCD
15" MAG CRT
and a generic floppy...

all in all i think i made out pretty good:D and the mobo has an onboard surround sound (5.1/7.1) output so i dont have to buy a soundcard...
now all i need is a tv tuner and dvd reader and cd writer and ill be REALLY happy...guess i gotta get a job this summer ;)

-Jordan

[Guest]

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