Those "uber 1337 haxxors" finally get the chop

[WarBlade]

I had this weird thought running through my head yesterday about whether or not any other games generate this much vitriol from its "fans".

I'd say that D2 attracting more vitriol from the D2 community than other titles would be a fair assessment myself.

I look at it like this: More features = more bugs. More bugs = more complaints, with a frequency roughly governed by the maturity of the fans.

While D2 is not alone in being a game with an extensive array of features, one only has to look at the broader catagories of other feature-laden games and see high instances of titles that fall under the heading of "Strategy" (Master of Orion 2 the example I currently have in mind). And MoO2 is a very buggy game. The difference between D2 and Master of Orion 2 is that D2 appeals to a younger audience I think. In light of that the ratio of compaints are likely to be high. The turn-based strategy players OTOH would seem to be a fan base more likely to be philosophical about a game's faults.

So yes. D2 will always be a heavily criticized product.

I admit it. I have some gripes about D2 also. But for the most part these are excusable when things are considered or otherwise minor issues. The pros far outweigh the cons in my book and I love the game as a result. :)

[LavCat]

Oh, I never looked at the log files before. Interesting.

Unfortunately the oldest log file is from 4/1, and the last assertion was on 3/20 (I had written a friend about it at the time so I have a record of the date). Somehow it had seemed more recent. If it happens again, I will save the file.

Does anyone else see assertion messages or is it only me?

One clue is I'm pretty sure I have had them on only one of my two D2 computers, not the other.

[CelticHound]

Though out of curiosity, which assertions do you get?

If you'll forgive me jumping in, in the hopes of free tech support...

***** UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: ACCESS_VIOLATION (c0000005)
(followed by all the dump info)

I get these every day or two. One of them is what took out my HC Paladin (which I was griping/whining about in my sig in my first post in this thread). The situation is that I'll be playing just fine, I'll click somewhere on the screen, I'll hear chord.wav (the default sound for error boxes), and the screen will freeze. I then have to use Alt-Tab to go to the Win2000 desktop and make the error message box active and press Enter to dismiss the box, because I can't give it focus using the mouse. After that, the Diablo II process will go away. What's really maddening is that while I'm trying to get to the message box to dismiss the process, I can see from the lights on my moden that packets are still being sent and received, so I'm not dropping.

I'll admit it would probably have been more sensible to just hit Alt-F4 when this happens, but since I haven't tried it, I don't know if it would work.

I've also gotten this one, which I sent to support@blizzard.com as a bug report, but nothing seemed to come of it:


---------------------------
Diablo II Error
---------------------------
Assertion Failure
Location : D2CMP\Src\SpriteCache.cpp, line #670
Expression : [sValidateSynchLoadDirectionBlock] There are differences
between the CEL Data and the Cel File:

DATA\GLOBAL\items\flpgld.dc6
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------


There have been others, but I've kinda given up keeping track.

-- CH

[Isolde]

The unhandled exception: access violation is a generic error which occurs when d2 tries to access memory that is out of bounds. Without the rest of the error log, there isn't anything more I can tell you about it. Though it's likely for the same reason as below:

The spritecache error is because you have a faulty data file (*.mpq) on your machine. Make sure you're not playing off of the CD (by doing a medium or full install). Also, try re-copying d2data.mpq from your CD to your hard drive. For some reason there seems to be a very high rate of failure in the CD stamping process which is compounded by how sensitive d2's graphic compression scheme is to small errors.

you can download a freeware file verification utility (it's only 64K) at zdnet:

http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3001-2248-10127196.html

unzip it into your diablo ii directory, open up the command line, cd to your diablo ii directory, and type

fsum -crc32 *.mpq

this generates checksums for all your data files. the important ones should be:

d2data.mpq e86c2eb5
d2char.mpq eaaec6e9
d2exp.mpq 31a1aa1b
d2music.mpq 63dddde0
d2sfx.mpq 1092953a

If yours don't match with mine, either your CD drive is faulty (which happens surprisingly often) or your CD is scratched or otherwise bad.

[Kyrene]

The situation is that I'll be playing just fine, I'll click somewhere on the screen, I'll hear chord.wav (the default sound for error boxes), and the screen will freeze.  I then have to use Alt-Tab to go to the Win2000 desktop and make the error message box active and press Enter to dismiss the box, because I can't give it focus using the mouse.  After that, the Diablo II process will go away.  What's really maddening is that while I'm trying to get to the message box to dismiss the process, I can see from the lights on my moden that packets are still being sent and received, so I'm not dropping.

I use XP Home, but I think it might work the same. I have found the quickest way to drop you out of D2 when having an asserion error is to just press 'Esc'. This immediately kills the D2 client and will reduce a lot of time fumbling for that darn assertion error box. Hope it helps for future errors.

[Grumpy]

And that fee cost just about the price of a case of beer. 

I rather suspect that you got a longer entertainment value out of the game than you did from the box of beer.

So you had higher expectations?  You want more?

So do my kids......from everything.

I am tired of seeing continual bashing go on.  I still enjoy this game.  I don't give a damn about how many cheaters there are or what they have done.  Count the blessings instead of the sins.

If'n you want more, go pay to play something that delivers more.  Or go buy a box of beer.  :rolleyes:

And now that I have that out of my system.........

Great day to ya!

I play PvP exclusively, without hacks or cheats or bugged equipment.

This arena was heavily effected by dupes and cheats.

I know too many people who cheated like crazy and still have accounts, and too many others who cheated NOT AT ALL, and have no account left.

I do not trust that this happened the way Blizzard is explaining it did.

Also, regardless of how nice Isolde is, do you think he is posting all this here without the knowledge and consent of Blizzard? I find it highly unlikely. I know my company has something call a PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPARTMENT.

[Jarulf]

You're right.  Certainly not on the client anyway.  (I admit, I always used  to laugh at products that would assert).  Ah, but there was a "wee" bit of rushing towards the end, and they were very useful to have on the server...  Besides which most of the assertions you see would have just resulted in unhandled exceptions anyway.

Though out of curiosity, which assertions do you get?

I think assertions can help some people that look at the "game" to know what happens. Especially if you have not done it much or have experience at it. It gets a bit annoying though when it gets inlined so that a function with 20 lines of code (assembler lines) turns out to be 10 times in size just because the game has to assert 1 million times that we have a a unit, that the unit is an item unit, and that it has item data for it. especially if you ever want to print it out, it gets bloated :)

Personally I mostly find it as a curiosity in that you get to see how Blizzard name their variables :D

[Roland]

He's a programmer.

If he was PR, he wouldn't be here. :P Blizzard has no PR department. Just like they have no Tech Support department. ;) Well, actually, they SUPPOSEDLY exist, but no one's ever heard from them or seen them, so while some cling to the vain hope that the myth is real, most of us just took it as an old fable. ;)

In all seriousness though, I don't trust that you have a boatload of friends who "didn't use ANY cheats" and yet got banned. AFAIK, a No-CD crack counts as a hack, and will get you banned. It's why I don't use them: I use Daemon-Tools with a burned image on my HD. I've had WAAAAAY too many problems with my drives (in fact, I think my DVD drive died, or near-died, the other day; was watching a movie, and it just froze, and the drive was spinning really slow and getting noisy; $20 for a new DVD ain't bad; $70 for a Collector's Edition DII or WC3 cd IS :P), so I don't trust them with my most popular games. I'm the type to buy two of something if I really like it (ala Blizzard games), but usually that's so I can have one to play, and one to collect. :D I'm not about to risk my games to crappy drives. It ain't worth it.

Plus, it's not a hack, so it doesn't get you banned. :P And no, I do NOT pirate games. If I want a game, I damn well will pay for it. It's the least I can do, after all. Stealing is stealing. Then again, I'm the type who will buy a whole CD for one song. ;) So I'm a little odd in that regard, anyway. :D

I'm not accusing your friends of cheating, or lying. I'm just saying that there may be legitimate reasons why they got banned. So far, out of ALL the people I know (between here, the DSFC, and RB, I haven't heard a single complaint from someone getting banned), and about a hundred times more that I DON'T know (mostly people here), not a single person has complaing of losing an account. We have, what, 500 users here at the Lounge, give or take? And not a one has lost an account? If the legit loss versus hacker loss ratio is as big as you make it out to be, we would have heard someone here complain about losing their account, firsthand (not their friends, but they themselves). Again, not trying to sound like a jerk, but really, even with my cynicism I find it easier to believe that your friends had SOME reason to get banned, whether you know it or not. But hey, who knows? I certainly don't. All I can do is say what I think.

Cut the guy some slack. It's not like he's out to get your friends or anything. :)

[Quark]

Maybe you should stop living up to your name so much ...

I personally don't care if you have doubts. Have them, criticize Blizzard, whatever. But you're forgetting one key phrase: Burden of Proof. In this scenario, it is not Blizzard's job to show that they have cleanly eradicated cheaters with 100% not being mistakes. The burden of proof is on those who were banned and say it was not their fault.

Until I see a legitimate claim from one of them, I see no reason to go harping on Blizzard and one guy who just happens to be nice enough to give us some inside information. Don't go ruining a good thing.

[Griselda]

Isolde, of course, isn't PR, but Blizz does have PR guys. They write the press releases and correspond with various media (including fansites), but I don't think you'll ever see them posting on the forums.

The PR guys are paid to be nice (and they are!), but they're not paid to understand the mechanics of the games. So, I don't know that they'd really have much to say on forums like this one anyway.

-Griselda

[CelticHound]

Very, very interesting...

I understood it was likely a null pointer or one pointing off into space - I'm a developer, too. The dump info was simply too long to post - I can email the error logs, if it comes to that.

It turns out that I have two different sets of D2 CDs - though they are both marked version 1.0. The first set I'd bought pretty soon after the game came out. It is labeled as being for the various Windows OSes. The second set I bought a few months later, after I was really hooked. Though it's also labeled 1.0, it's for both Windows and Mac.

The d2data.mpq's are very different between the two sets:

Win
2000-05-10 13:28 256,225,123 D2DATA.MPQ

Win/Mac
2000-06-23 13:13 267,642,202 D2DATA.MPQ

We are talking an eleven meg difference here.

Also, I was under the impression that d2char.mpq and d2sfx.mpq had my CD keys encoded into them, so there should be no way my checksums would match yours. (For me, though, the results are consistent, given the CD keys I used during the install.)

Given all that, I've checked five different installations and here are my results:

Isolde:
d2data.mpq e86c2eb5
d2exp.mpq 31a1aa1b
d2music.mpq 63dddde0

RH (crashes on this box):
d2data.mpq - (267,642,202 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x6c8ee68f)
d2exp.mpq - (250,156,780 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x2e4516e1)
d2music.mpq - (345,349,632 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x63dddde0)

VPF:
d2data.mpq - (256,225,123 bytes, CRC-32 = 0xe86c2eb5)
d2exp.mpq - (250,156,780 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x2e4516e1)
d2music.mpq - (345,349,632 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x63dddde0)

VD2:
d2data.mpq - (256,225,123 bytes, CRC-32 = 0xe86c2eb5)
d2exp.mpq - (250,156,780 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x2e4516e1)
d2music.mpq - (345,349,632 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x63dddde0)

WI:
d2data.mpq - (267,642,202 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x6c8ee68f)
d2exp.mpq - (250,156,780 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x2e4516e1)
d2music.mpq - (345,349,632 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x63dddde0)

WT:
d2data.mpq - (256,225,123 bytes, CRC-32 = 0xe86c2eb5)
d2exp.mpq - (250,156,780 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x2e4516e1)
d2music.mpq - (345,349,632 bytes, CRC-32 = 0x63dddde0)

So d2music.mpq is fine by all standards. d2data gives the same crc for the 256MB version, but the 267MB version is different, naturally. My d2exp is consistent all through, but different than yours. That could be explained though by my using the same CD for all the installs, since I bought both my copies of the expansion at the same time, so I wasn't worried that the CD key would be "tied" to the particular disc, the way I was for the D2C disks - which were obviously different versions. Is it possible you are running a non-release version of d2exp.mpq?

What next?

-- CH

[Isolde]

Doh! Yeah, my d2exp.mpq is different, I probably have a different version. I checked vs. my install and i get 0x2e4516e1 for d2exp.mpq as well.

So it crashes on RH but not WI? That would suggest that the mpq is different for the Win/Mac version and that yours is correctly installed, which means the problem is something else.

Is the file it asserts on always flpgld.dc6?

I'm afraid I don't have much of an idea at this point. It's easy enough for me to get it to not assert of course, but I can't really figure out what's going wrong from the information I have.

[ShadowHM]

I play PvP exclusively, without hacks or cheats or bugged equipment. 

I don't understand how that is possible.

I thought you didn't get exp from killing other players. I suppose you could rush each character to your optimal dueling level, but where do you get the gear for them?

I do understand that this may be the tedious prelude to the 'real game' of PvP, but I cannot see how you can say you play PvP exclusively.

(And, IMO, for what it is worth, the 'without hacks or cheats or bugged equipment' part should go without saying if you are posting here.)

[CelticHound]

Is the file it asserts on always flpgld.dc6?

No I get a variety of errors. Here's one I got tonight.

Assertion Failure
Location : Fog\Src\AsyncData.cpp, line #655
Expression : (ptAsyncData->dwFlags & ASYNC_DATA_FLAGS_DEBUG_TAG_MASK) == ASYNC_DATA_FLAGS_DEBUG_TAG

Playing a HC Zookeeper necro - losing an army of 50 minions while I'm in the NM Chaos Sanctuary is particularly annoying... Oh well, at least I didn't die.

I'm thinking it must be a hardware issue, since it's just on the one machine - which is the only one with a GeForce 2 card. Does anyone you know happen to use a Radeon? I'm thinking about getting the All-in-Wonder.

-- CH
(NM Diablo in hardcore, fear of another crash, and the ping on my cable connection up past 1000. It's one way of making sure I don't fall asleep while playing...)

[Isolde]

All of these errors have to do with file loading. I know there's still a bug in there that only shows up during odd timing conditions, and typically only on certain machines, but I haven't been able to track it down yet.

They really shouldn't have anything to do with your video card... you can try setting it to direct draw (either use the videoconfig tool or add -ddraw as a command line parameter) to make sure.

[Roland]

A little harmless fun-poking. That's all. ;) Jeeze, you people are too seriousness sometimes. ;)

[Grumpy]

I play PvP exclusively, without hacks or cheats or bugged equipment. 

I don't understand how that is possible.

I thought you didn't get exp from killing other players. I suppose you could rush each character to your optimal dueling level, but where do you get the gear for them?

I do understand that this may be the tedious prelude to the 'real game' of PvP, but I cannot see how you can say you play PvP exclusively.

(And, IMO, for what it is worth, the 'without hacks or cheats or bugged equipment' part should go without saying if you are posting here.)

I rush charachters to the optimal level then never do anything besides duel. No MF, no Iron Man no nothin'. Private cow runs, leveling very fast. Exp shrines don't wear out before the level is clear and we are off to the next game.

I have always dueled privately AND publicly. Public has not been possible for a while. I consider myself above average with a necro, but I can't handle everything that has popped up in public dueling games.

So yes, I guess I PvM against cows to get to my level then stop.

My gear, I have played a long time, almost exclusively with Necs. I have been builing them for 2 years. They are dressed nicely. I have also been given many things, includeing 2-3 friends who quit and left me their accounts...then I trade what they have for necro charms etc...

I have used MH before. So I'm a hella bad cheater I guess. My accounts were not deleted. I don't think you should assume that everyone who posts here is a saint regarding cheating etc...my guess is a few of them are just quiet....

Roland: Point taken. I'm not offened whatsoever. I can't know who actually did what either. You are correct. To me the data I'm looking regarding this whole event "smells funny"...something does not seem right....

You do not have to be in the PR department to act in the best interests of your company. I in no way intended to insult Isolde, who has been very nice and very informative. But, I will stick with my original comments, I gather his superiors know about this lengthy discussion.

Peace and Love. 4 inches of snow in April is cruel...

[Roland]

4 inches of snow in April is cruel...

4 inches ain't nothing. ;)

As for "this whole event 'smells funny'", that's why I brought up the bit about No-CD cracks. Alot of people, who legally own the game, use them so they don't damage their CDs, or don't have to swap them out everytime they want to play a game. It's not uncommon by any means, although piracy certainly runs rampant with such programs. However, little is it known (at least, as far as I know; I'm not a member of the B.Net community, so I couldn't tell you what they know and/or don't know) that a No-CD crack, which IIRC alters the .exe file for the game, is counted as a hack. ALOT of people got banned from Wacraft III / The Frozen Throne recently, in the last batch of bannings BEFORE this one, and all because they used a No-CD crack. Of course, most of them claimed they legally owned the games (some went so far as to boast that they didn't, and would just get another CD key; amusing to see such childish antics, although quite irritating at the same time, knowing that such people exist :P), but I'm not sure if Blizzard did much (if anything) to reverse the bannings if it was merely a No-CD crack. I remember someone at Blizzard, or an MVP, posting in regards to No-CD cracks making accounts banned, i.e. "I'll look into it", due to alot of "legit" players being banned for seemingly no reason. What ever came of that investigation, aside from concluding that said "legits" got banned due to the crack, I do not know. I'd take a fair guess that at least some of the accounts got restored (I think most, if not all, of those were temp bans anyway; the more serious offenders, who truly did cheat, got permanently banned, as I recall), but even that may not be true. I'd say the majority did not, if any at all in fact did.

Just food for thought. As I said, I wasn't trying to question the legitness of your friends, but rather point out that it could be something you and they have not considered, i.e. the use of a No-CD crack. Due to the way the crack works, it's counted as a hack, and as such runs a very high risk of getting you banned. Hence why I said I (and several others I know) use a burned image. Eats up alot of HD space, but IMHO it's worth it, at least for me. Especially since I have enough space for it. ;)

Oh, and BTW - If you think 4 inches is bad, you shoulda been here in Mass. a few years back. 70+ degree weather for almost a month, and then BAM! April 1st, Mother Nature dumps 4 FEET of snow on us. We students talked about that one for years. ;) Still do. :)

[Grumpy]

As I spend more time in NYC I become a weather whiner...like they all are here. I grew up in Chicago and MN. The only reason 4 inches was mentioned was because two weekends ago I ate breakfast at a nice French Cafe in shorts in 60 degree sunny weather....so walking last night in howling wind with snow whipping in my face was a tad annoying...

Come to think of it, I think I might have been in Boston for that storm, I lived there twice in the late 90's. Once in Ipswich and once in lovely Slummerville:)

CD-cracks...who knows. I don't. I don't use one. My CD just sits in my crappy 366 CP and spins as screens load...

As for the B-net debate. Why wait until the game is ruined then ban everyone...I just don't get the logic. Why wait so long for 1.10? Seems they just didn't care, this is a generic bandaid for a gushing wound IMHO. Whatever, its a lot easier to sit here and complain than to fix the problem, when in reality I have no idea what it takes to maintain the servers, stop hackers, write 1.10 or anything else.

[Grumpy]

Maybe you should stop living up to your name so much ...

I personally don't care if you have doubts.  Have them, criticize Blizzard, whatever.  But you're forgetting one key phrase: Burden of Proof.  In this scenario, it is not Blizzard's job to show that they have cleanly eradicated cheaters with 100% not being mistakes.  The burden of proof is on those who were banned and say it was not their fault.

Until I see a legitimate claim from one of them, I see no reason to go harping on Blizzard and one guy who just happens to be nice enough to give us some inside information.  Don't go ruining a good thing.

What a funny statement....

You "personally don't care if I have doubts"...well well...I Personally don't care if you care if I have doubts so....sew buttons on your underwear....lmao.

I don't have to prove anything sir. I have MY accounts, I had some great duels last night. I can however disagree with what happened and the way it happened.

What "good thing" did I ruin? I don't think I scared Isolde off, nor do I think I was particularly rude.

FYI, you sound just as Grumpy as me:)