Newb-omancer

[Sabra]

After years of playing D1, I have started playing DII and have begun a Necromancer who is now clvl 11 and heading off for Andariel. At this point, I'm enjoying this character almost as much as the first D1 Rogue I ever played, so that's saying something.

All of the Necromancer skills sound so interesting, but I've read that you can seriously screw up a DII character through bad skills choices in early development. So, acting on Charis' suggestion, I've come here for input.

My goal is to equip my character with a bow that has life and mana steal (currently a short bow with two socketed chipped skulls). Then I'd like to let his minions fight for him while he directs the action. So placing skill points in all aspects (?) of the Summoning Tree seems like a given. The curses all sound quite interesting too, but I realize that some may have low returns. Poison and Bone has me completely befuddled. Can you make a few suggestions on the most worthwhile skills in all three trees?

Additionally, may I have some recommendations on experience point distribution for a Necromancer?

And finally two straight up questions.

1) As the monsters mlvl increases, will the HPS of my skels and Gollies increase as well?
2) Should I ditch the Rogue Merc I was given after the Blood Raven quest? I have no objection to keeping & equipping her, but I suspect that her ability to level up might be hampered by the minions I'm summoning. I'd like to keep her, but not if she can't advance with me. I don't want to spend a lot of time just walking about with her and letting her level.

Thanks so much.

[Logic_X]

Here's some links you may find useful:

v1.09.2 of my Necro FAQ...1.09.3 coming soon. (1.09.2.2 is on my website....i can provide a link if really needed...but 1.09.2 will help you cover the basices.)

Dii.net's Poison&Bone Stats

Dii.net's Summoning Stats

Dii.net's Curses Stats

Dii.net's General FAQ

Dauragon's Necro FAQ

Chippydip's Skill Calculator

Diablo2.de's weapon speed calc

Tommi's D2 page

Arreat Summit

I can PM you the link to the (currently unfinished - hence version 1.09.2.2) newer version of my guide - currently updating a bunch of stuff on it....and have yet to write my Summoning handbook or finish any of the other handbooks for it.....so it's only a bit beyond 1.09.2.

[BlackLightning]

Hi Sabra,

Interesting description of your necromancer.
If you want to build a necromancer, search around the Armory for some other guides. However, necromancers are usually poison and bone + summoning. Most well-balanced necros put points into all 3 skill trees, but do what you want to do.

As for the answers to your questions:
1) No, as the monster levels increase, the HP of skeletons and Golems won't increase, unless you've put points into their masteries.
2) Merc choice is up to you, put most people prefer either the desert guards in Act 2, or the Tank barbs in Act 5. Again, completely up to you.

Hope I helped! ;)

Yeah, that's it...

[Baylan]

Hi Sabra! Welcome to the lounge, sorta :-).

For the skills that are on the curses tree, there are several ways to go about choosing them. I highly recommend putting at least one point into every skill, with the exception of *maybe* LR, although that will make you much more party friend with sorceresses and other elemental type characters.

Dim Vision is an uber skill that is way underused, especially against ranged attackers. A decent level Dim Vision put on a crowd after Terror (to interupt their AI) will make them sit there and do nothing until the curse either wears off, or something steps into melee range. When something steps into melee range, it will only attack anything in melee range. For indepth use of this curse, and how powerful it is I suggest looking at Sirian's Skeletorr story - its quite a fascinating read about the use of curses and basic ideas. Unfortunately these days something along those lines won't be as viable as it was in D2C.

Amplify Damage is also very useful, it will double the damage of all your minions (in hell it would be the equivilent of trippling it!). It works as follows: it will subtract 100 from the cursed targets physical resistance. So in hell, everything has at least 50% physical resistance it would cut that to -50% so everything you do would be the equivilent of 3 times the damage it would normally do! In normal it will essentially double your damage, but it is cutting the same amount from 0% physical resistance on monsters. Some people use an Act 2 Thorns merc along with this in order to do more damage than otherwise

Iron Maiden is the 'uber skill' that almost everyone on b.net uses. Sure, its powerful, has a nice long duration, but boy is it *BORING*. You just kind of sit there, and watch as everything dies to whatever it happens to be hitting it. Its usually used in conjunction with Revive, to make a beefy meatshield that does a good portion of damage whenever it gets hit.

Attract/Confuse - These two skills really are *extremely* fun and really cool. Confuse is a toned down version of attract but it works on more monsters and is a bit more dangerous, but just as much fun. Basically confuse makes monsters attack the closest non-confused target around, including you or your minions which is why its more dangerous but I've found it to be fairly effective. Attract on the other hand gives the monsters a single target, which when used in combination with amp, or IM, can lead to some very cool crowd controlling possabilities! I'm not sure if exp is receieved for kills made with these skills yet but they are a lot of fun to use. I enjoy making Doom Knights, or Venom Lords in the CS all attack eachother :-).

Either way, those are the real super-skills in the curse tree. I'll probably come back later today and give out some more info on necros, but these are IMO the most fun and the most interesting skills in the curse tree, not counting decreptify which I don't have much experience with or I'd keep going :). There are very few skills in the curse tree which become completely useless later on in the game - and focusing in on one or two seems to limit the strength of the others. Either way, good luck with your necromancer and have fun!

[the Langolier]

Before placing too many of your skills, keep this in mind:

1 - Never max a golem (mastery is fine), the damage they do won't cut it in the long run, plus their attack speed is pityful.

2 - Skeletons are weak, even with 5 into skeleton mastery they die quickly in act 4 / normal. Mages aren't much better. They ARE, however, good for using up bodies so they can't be ressurected by shamans, etc.

3 - A single revive can be more powerful than any summon for 3 minutes, and 5 of them are great.

4 - Curses can be the biggest help. Helpful curses include decrepify, iron maiden for enemies like the smith, and occasionally life tap (espcecially if you plan to be melee alongside your minions). Read Elric's guide on how to use the great AI curses, the link is in his profile.

5 - Corpse explosion with amplify damage will do (60% physical, 30% fire) to (100% physical 50% fire) damage based on corpse life. Ouch. Decrepify is also effective for raising the damage of CE by a smaller factor.

[Sabra]

My thanks to all of you. This was incredibly helpful. The straight up answers from Black Lightning, the links from Logic X, the detailed info from Baylan and the tips from the Langolier will stand me in good stead I'm sure. I'm looking forward to learning more.

Yesterday I played a two person game in the Cathedral with Orogion who was playing his BowaZon. Tough but really thrilling and it went way better than I'd expected it would. So, after Orogion's departure (pre-Andariel) I went back for a solo run to see what it would REALLY be like, and learned A LOT about how vulnerable & under-powered the skels and clay golly really are. Whew! I just had to keep running back to the WPs. ;) Started in the Catacombs. No go! Up to the Inner Cloister. Bad too! Up to Jail. Yikes! The hits just keep on coming.

Finally I decided that I'm probably going to need to do things differently. How differently, I don't know yet. But I see a replay through A1 in my immediate future. My life/mana steal short bow will have to go out the door and be exchanged for a Hunter's or some such. :( Ah well. chipped skulls don't show up that often, but....I do have a Hunter's bow with three sockets in my stash, so we'll see. Merc is now dead, of course. Aren't they always! <_<

[Baylan]

Hi Sabra (again!).

If I were you, I'd keep an eye out for a Long Bow, which does quite a bit more damage than a Hunter's and can be bought readily from Gheed at any time, although it has sockets on occasion its a little bit rarer than the normal version. I wish you luck with your Bowamancer, and hope that you'll visit us here more often! We can be, and are a wealth of information if you make use of us.

[WarBlade]

. . . And no-one's delved into the virtues of Amplify Damage yet? Ouch.

Reading back over the thread, a few comments spring to mind.

1.) Rogues can work well for a summoner Necro. Sure the preferred option is the Spearman who's aura's can power up your hoard, but the Rogue can offer different strengths. For one thing she's easy to keep alive and you'll usually be right by your character's side performing handy bodyguard duties. By contrast the spearman is often in the thick of things, forcing you to split your attention even further and cast Life Tap at times when you'd rather not.

The resulting hoard (kinda RTS feeling) that I found functional was
Character: Performs the role of commander and can provide a wide array of attacks.
Rogue: Artilliery gun.
Skeleton Magi: Small arms ranged attackers. Vulnerable, but necessary for PI's.
Revives: Frontline/Outer defence screen.
Golem: Mobile shield bearer for the Revives. :lol:

The spearman is good too though, if you don't mind the added micromanagement game play.


2.) Try throwing weapons early on. I remember what it was like in the early days of trying to kill Blood Raven and how some my supposedly powerful ranged attackers suddenly became pot drinking, fast moving, terrified mice in that encounter. Not so the Necro. One Curse and three Javelins later she keeled over in a fight that lasted about 2 or 3 seconds.

Switch to bows later when you can find a weapon that consistantly deals more damage than Javelins.


3.) Amplify Damage is your friend. A couple of points here, maybe three, goes a long way for many situations.

[Albion Child]

Hmmm... I haven't played many nekros, especially lately since I can't, but I have friends who have, and I've seen many players also, so here is what I can offer.


Blood Golem/Iron maiden work very nicely together when pitted against melee monsters.

Bone spirit is the easiest way to kill bosss, but it takes forever.

Corpse explosion is very powerful and makes cowing an absolute breeze, but is 100% useless against most act bosses (meph is a possible exception)


Here is what I recomend for a good "all around" necro.

Pick a Poison and bone damage spell and max it (Bone Spirit/Bone Spear/or Poison Nova) Each has advantages and disadvantages and this is basically personal preference.

Put a few points into corpse explosion until satisfied with damage radius.

Put at least one point into Iron Maiden, Amplify Damage, Lower Resists, and possibly Decrepify.

Blood golem with a couple in mastery is your best bet if you are using Iron Maiden, but be careful as you golem can actually make you die.

And revives are also helpful, even if you aren't relying on them to kill anything, they make excelent expendable tanks.

Also, your Merc should be able to level with you, and Act 1 mercs are an excelent choice for Necros, especially if you have a lot of summons, as they can still deal damage (won't get blocked like barbs or Greiz mercs) act 3 mercs might be good in this way too.

[ShadowHM]

Hi Sabra

I too am a newb-omancer. I just recently made my first ever necromancer and insisted that he had to be a bow user.

I am certain that there have to be many skill point structures that would work for this, but here is what I did. My boy is a slow killer when solo, but he can manage alone. He shines in group play, due to the fact that he is heavy on curses and has a golem that tanks well.

I put single points in all curses, with extras in Amp Damage (4), Dim Vision (10), Lower Resist (10), Attract (10). I maxed Golem Mastery. I put about 10 points into Summon Resist. I put points slowly into Fire Golem, taking care not to go too fast with it, because he is so darned expensive in mana to cast, and I didn't want to have the casting cost exceed my mana pool.

The nice thing about a Fire Golem is that the Holy Fire aspect of them makes them monster magnets, thus sparing your weak little self the attentions of the monsters, and allowing you to plink at them in relative safety.

I put enough points in str to be able to hold a chukonu. I pumped dex as much as I could, and the extras went to vitality. No points spent in energy at all (hence the caution about placing points too soon in Fire Golem).

He still had a very low AR. You will want to seek out any and all dex/AR bonus items you can find. I got very lucky and found a circlet that had both the Visionary and Platinum affixes for him to wear, and still found that his AR was low.

He has a Cold Arrow Rogue mercenary, who supplies the cold damage when needed for PI's, and is also very durable, due to her hip-hugger tendencies.

Between a lightning damage weapon-switch bow, the Fire Golem's fire damage and the cold arrow on the Rogue, combined with Lower Resist, PI's in Hell can be killed. The rest go down to a combination of Amp Damage, Attract and/or Dim Vision.

When in party play, Decrepify has it's moments as well, when your group has melee fighters and boss packs spawn with Fanaticism. Life Tap is a godsend when playing the Chaos Sanctuary or other places where melee characters get cursed.

[Sabra]

Hi, Shadow:

I'm so glad you responded to me, as I have heard about you and your Necromancer over at Rolands. Thank you so much for your advice. This really means a lot to me. I'm really glad you addressed Life Tap, since I have been reading about it a bit, and still can't seems to imagine how it will work. For now, I'll just say if it's good enough for you...Many thanks. Hope to run into you soon and maybe tag along to see how you do.

[Oomph-aak]

Melee Necro is fun!
Using Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone as a template, I started this necro to see how far I could get (this is SP players 8). I am now nearly finished with act 3 NM.

The Melnibonean at level 58
STR~ 150 ...will be going to 232 for the highest plate possible. Elric's strength was augmented by potions in the books, but I will use charms and item bonuses for the same effect.
DEX~110 ... which is the requirement for elite swords. Dex is actually 129 due to item bonuses now. Elric was not a slouch in the agility dept.
VIT~76...Elric was somewhat sickly in the books because of the inbreeding of the royal family, but STORMBRINGER solved that problem.
ENG~45... with my bahamut's ring I have just enough mana to summon ARIOCH (max Fire Golem + max Golem Mastery).

I have a rogue sidekick named Moonglum though sometimes she calls herself Rackhir the Red or Basanti, which is what her mother Akara called her.

Generally I trade up to more damaging swords as I progress thru the game, always socketing at least one skull, so that STORMBRINGER will always possess it's life stealing attribute. Sometimes in the heat of battle, when things look grim, I call out to my patron Arioch and he comes to my aid. Sometimes he also augments my cursed blade Stormbringer in its life stealing ability (life tap lvl 5). "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!!" Also the sound of my blade howling thru the air causes many foes to flee in Terror or to cringe in Decrepit horror as my blade cuts them down, while feeding their life essence to me.

Moonglum has an excellent bow known as Skystrike, which she claimed from the dead body of a demon as we travelled over the deserts of Aranoch. It has a most wondrous property of calling meteors from the heavens. She is always near by my side, shooting her arrows of flame and ice, and doing a greater part of the killing when Arioch is unable or unwilling to heed my pleas for succor...

So Far... and so far to go...
I plan to keep pushing until I can go no farther with this build. In sp I may or may not find Stormbringer's sister sword Doombringer, but I am hoping for it, yes I am. Also hope to find a good rare ancient plate to wear somewhwere down the road. Perhaps Arioch will bless me with a particularly rich monster at some point, since I will not bow to the god of Twink.

My items are not that great, I am still wearing the Venom Ward Breastplate I found in Normal difficulty. I have a rare circlet with small resists and a +1 to necro skills and the bahamut's and a Manald Heal ring. other items are of not much note. Curses are what make this character actually work, The fire golem is an almost indestructible tank and monster magnet. The rogue has saved my skinny pale butt MANY times...but terror,amp damage, decrepify and life tap are my real mainstays. I have 1 point in all curses and couple more in the ones I mentioned, mostly decrepify. 1 point in bone armor early on to help thru the early portions of normal, other wise NO points in poison/bone tree. 1 point in each Golem and 20 to Fire Golem and Golem mastery and 1 in summon resist. NO points to skeletons, revives or skeleton mastery. Resistances are my main problem but blocking works well with such high dex. High-end uniques just haven't happened yet so I will just keep using the chippie recipe on the swords I find until a reasonable facsimile of the real Stormbringer pops out someday. Two handed with lifesteal is mostly what I use, Sometimes one-handed w/shield. Elric would never carry around a head in a bottle.

Having fun is more important than being all-powerful, and this guy is a lot of fun.


Have fun,

Oomph-akk

[Brimstone]

hehe 3rd little nit post of the day.. (think I doubled my post count :P )
For casters, the 'w' key is a great feature; IMHO it almost seems like it was designed for them. A +skills item in either hand can work wonders, and suits the play style you describe very well. An extra slvl or two means a bit more for your curses, so pop a few skels, switch to alternate weapon, curse, revive, golem, etc., switch back to bow and blast away. Rinse repeat. Oh, and welcome! Hope to see you online...my Frenzybarb always loves to make himself a meat shield for anyone tossing amp damage around!

[the Langolier]

3rd little nit post of the day... For casters, the 'w' key is a great feature

Let us make it the fourth: I think you mean the weapon swap feature. Keys can be customized, so it is not necessarily the 'w' key.

[Brimstone]

nt

[NERDmanWhippy]

Also think about how you want to deal dmg to enemies....Amp/ce works well for physical mercs...Lower resist/ce "amplifies" the amount of fire dmg that CE deals...its nice for a necro that plays with a lot of sorcs....

J