Buying Items on Ebay?

[Archon_Wing]

I've never really seen any decent discussion on this matter. So let's try.

Unforunately, buying E-Bayed items as of now is pretty much a joke. You could easily spend $20 on an item that would probaly be deleted.

So for the sake of discussion, let's go to never-never land and pretend that items on E-bay were actualy legit. We also will pretend nobody will buy a windforce for $1,000. Yes, say that with a straight face. Ok, I know you can't, so move on.

The main argument I've seen against E-bay'd items is that you are wasting money on some computer code. But one could argue that the game itself simply some computer code. And perhaps the entertainment value matters. You certainly wouldn't call people who watched a movie for $9.25 stupid? (actualy, it depends on the movie) While there was really nothing concrete iyou gain from purchasing that ticket, there was the entertianment value.

But still, doesn't the entertainment value come from the game itself? Is it worth paying a price that could actualy be worth more than the game itself to enjoy it? Are you actualy enjoying it?

Then of course, everyone has their own idea of fun. Me, I wouldn't trust those cretins in the trade channel with my town portal scroll, so you can see where I stand.

What do you think? There is really no wrong answer. Well, actualy 274 is the wrong answer. Sorry. :)

[Az3ar]

The question you asked is the exact question I do, and it crosses the point of most RPGs.

Almost all RPGs I know of consist of building a character, improving him/her, getting new items/weapons, going through the storyline and normally finishing it, (some RPGs leave an open ending to provide a soft landing for a sequell).

The process above is what really matters, and reaching the best and completing the storyline, your character, and getting whatever items you wanted are also goals in RPGs.

So people who are too lazy to reach the ending by themselves, completing a character, or getting a highly prized item look for shortcuts, are denying themselves of the true fun of the game, and the feeling of satisfaction after you complete your goals.

As I see it, people who do buy items from Ebay or whatever else are forfitting the game they bought, and wasting money, if they bought a game, they should play it as it was meant to be played.

The real fun in the game is the road to the goal, not actually getting the goal, when you cheat to get it, you dont feel good about it because you know that you didnt do it yourself, and then you wont do whithout such a cheat to get somewhere in the game because you are used to cheating......

Of course, thats just my opinion and you have full rights to ignore it ;).

[Brista]

There actually very much is potential to sell a Windforce for a thousand dollars

If you find a Ladder Windforce in the first few weeks then it will fetch that much easily

Sadly I think the really high bids would come from self-styled "business people" who make money out of duping items

It would depend on other things like if they have a duping system working already and on how effective Blizzard are at deterring cheating in the Ladder amongst the generality of the BNet population

But a thousand dollars for what to a duper is a licence to print money is actually rather cheap

This will only really get sorted out if Blizzard stop auction sites selling BNet items and shut town these dupe dotcom sites - that would take a lot of energy and a fairly radical rethink in their current policy of combatting cheating by technical fixes alone

They might also tackle it by hammering enough casual cheaters - I'm talking CD Key deletion - to stop people feeling it was smart to use Maphack, d2hackit, etc

I would even like to see them hammer people who post in their forums or state in chat that they are cheating. If you were playing Poker and someone announced they were cheating they would not be allowed to continue playing, why do we have to put up with it on BNet

As for people who would pay money for legit items then it doesn't really bother me. If someone trades a legit Windforce for 40 legit Shaels or for some real world cash it's pretty much the same thing isn't it? The only real ethical distinction is that they haven't "earned" it but I personally don't have a big issue with that. It's the associated cheating that colours the issue for me. (I guess like someone Jay Walking on their way to do an armed robbery :P )

[FenrisWulf]

I actually have no moral issue with the sale of items on eBay in general. True, people are not playing the game to its full extent...then again, who am I to dictate how they should play the game? It affects me only on the same level as if they had actually MFed for the item they purchased and were using it; instead of contributing their time to the game, they contributed their money, which is a somewhat strange but relatively fair trade-off. Though I don't like the practice, I can't take the moral high ground in the same way as I can against hacks and duping (as well as the fact that it exploits no facet of the game).

What does get me about eBay and item sale in general is that it is, undoubtedly, one of the main impetuses for both duping and hacking. If there were not the option to convert "godly" items into physical currency, then I fervently believe that there would not exist the persistent cycles of duping to make a quick buck, and then hacking to fill the void of prized items, left by the now devalued duped items. If you couldn't profit from duping and hacking...why even bother? Yes, I can understand that there could still be duping, to trade for what you want, and hacking, to get the edge over the common folk of BNet, but not driven to such frenzied heights that they completely destroy the economy that they exist within. After all, what's the point of trading item for item, when every item is worth nothing? Why would you sell off a hacked item, when there's nothing else around that could compare, by far?

I know that this thesis needs a bit of refining, but it feels right to me. When this issue is removed from the picture, as was done in your premise, then I feel that eBay item sale is a completely acceptable enterprise, as despicable as it may seem.

EDIT: Hm, this is a very similar point of view to that presented by Brista. Eh, it's good enough to repeat. :)

[Roland]

...I don't think there IS such a thing as "decent discussion" on this subject. And, I think alot of people agree with me. But, who knows.

Personally, if it were up to me, I'd make such sales illegal, and crack down on them. There really is no point to them. And, technically, you're not selling anything. A few sprites on a screen that you don't, in any way, own. It's Blizzard's code; you have no right to sell it.

If Blizzard did like alot of MMORPGs do, i.e. make it illegal to sell items / accounts, then I'd be alot happier. So would most people, I should think. And, at the very least, if this is still an issue in WoW, it's gonna hurt them. Big time.

Feh. It's not an issue that should even be discussed. The problem shouldn't exist to begin with. Blizzard hasn't done enough to deal with it, nor do I think they ever will. But that doesn't change my opinion. No decent discussion? Yeah, that's cause there's nothing to discuss, for me anyway. :P

[CorwinBrute]

Actually, I bought a few Stones on Ebay a year and a few months ago. I had just had one of my accounts stolen (the one with my magic find character and a javazon with extremely good gear), and I didn't see myself starting MFing with a 4 Topaz armor and a 15%MF ring again. So I bought some SoJs in order to trade and restart my characters quickly.

Now, I am not directly opposed to people deciding to buy online games items on Ebay : after all, it's their money and their decision. What I'm opposed to is the direct consequences of Ebay sales, which are hacked items and duping (which lags the Realms as dupe methods generally end mainstream, thus ruining the in-game economy). Without the huge incentive provided by hard, cold cash on Ebay, duping would not be very mainstream, I think, and the banning of CD-keys would be an effective deterrent (it's not for someone who already made tons of money out of the game and can buy tens of CD-keys if needed).

[Roland]

Without the huge incentive provided by hard, cold cash on Ebay, duping would not be very mainstream...

Diablo, anyone?

[Feryar]

I've had a course at my university this year, the deals with how the changes in technology effects society, economics and organizations. It was a rather interesting course, and some of its topics describe somewhat the same. We see an increasing amount of services being sold, rather than physical products. With a service they define things like logos and ringtones for cellulars and music on mp3-format (yes, there are already some artists selling their music over the internet, Ice-T for instance).

In my opinion the process of buying items on ebay fits right into this category. There is no physical product involved, yet you do buy something. If you bought a Ice-T song on mp3, would you also say that you only bought 0s and 1s? (don't answer that ;))

My point is that that people buying their windforce on ebay is not something new or revolutionary. In Norway we've been able to buy logos for our cellphones for many years already. In principle that is not different. I bet some people here pay for their TV channels? How is that different? You pay for access to something that is already floating around in the air.

The fact that people are buying their items on ebay does not surprise me at all.
What kind of pleasure they get out of it, is another issue. Personally I prefer to find my own items. I'd never be happy with a character that was built with items someone else found (or duped for that matter).
However there are no rules regulating what people are allowed to define as "fun", at least not in Norway ;)

The fact that these items are "owned by Blizzard" does complicate it a little. However, if you look at it like you are paying to get access to these items, then it suddenly all makes sense IMO. When you pay money to decode TV signals, you don't actually get the ownership to the signals. They are still not yours, but you are allowed to make use of them. I'll say it works the same way with items on the realms.

</MO>

[CorwinBrute]

Diablo, anyone?

True, true. But don't forget that D1 was very easy to hack, because characters were stored client-side. I seriously doubt that people with true hacking skills (as opposed to the script-kiddies) would be very interested in spending huge amounts of time to find exploits in the D2 servers if not for the cash incentive.

[TaMeOlta]

Oooh ! Do you have any idea how much I would pay for a "Tickle Me CorwinBrute " doll ?!? ;)
I would prefer to spend my money on forum action figures , dolls , t-shirts and the like than purchase a WF - but hey , thats the way I think !

EDIT : if it was offered on E-Bay , of course :P

[TaiDaishar]

I am pretty much disgusted by the idea of spending enormous amounts of money (5$ of a WF is considered enormous IMO) to buy something you will never own and to buy it FROM someone who doesn't own it's just my own opinion, what other people do is none of my concern, if they want to break some savings accounts to buy a 1.08 Arkain's Valor who am I to tell they're as stupid as a shoe lace?

The real thing that bugs me with eBay is, as so much other people said it above me, the incensitive(sp?) it gives hackers/dupers/etc' to find exploits and loopholes and IMHO as long as the selling is legal the dupes and hacks will always return, no matter how good the anti cheat code is, it's simply too worthwhile for the hackers, it's free money that can go up to the thousands in an investment of 15-40$ US and a few days and if you're a teenager (like myself) you'll really like the extra cash.

[--Pete]

Hi,

People get all wrapped around the axles of legality, ethics, game philosophy, etc. No two are speaking of the same thing, no one is listening and everyone is shouting. It's a hot button topic, designed to elicit heat without light. And it's been talked past the glue point.

That aside:

The legal aspect is unclear and next to impossible to enforce anyway as long as in game trading is permitted. If two people agree to exchange an item and the receiver of the item gives the giver a "gift", what right does the game maker have to interfere? The gift is a separate action not taking part in the game world and the game company's jurisdiction ends at the border of the game world. Forget for a moment that gaming is a world wide pastime and that there are no international laws governing what can be done on the Internet. Consider only the Americocentric attitude that so many take. What has been done has not been tested in court. The game company claims rights to everything that is in the game world? Fine, the item never leaves the game world, it is simply transfered like any other item. The exchange of real money does not take place in the game world, thus is none of the game company's business.

Ethical aspect? In game trading is allowed, even encouraged. People give good items to their friends all the time, asking for nothing in return. That's a nice way to play, but sucks from a role playing standpoint. The in game economy is usually a disaster. So, to make trading meaningful, asking for real money makes the most sense. Since it does not influence the in game situation (goods transfered from someone who has them to someone who wants them) it is in no way damaging the game for anyone.

That leaves the game philosophy aspect. For the seller, the game is no longer a game, it is a business. So, for him game philosophy no longer applies.

The buyers of these items are the fools. They have lost track of the reality of just what a game is. They are so wrapped up in the goal that they forget that the object is the process. The ultimate destination of these people is "No, I never played Crapola. But I paid an expert and he finished it FOR ME in record time. That makes me leet."

If the world were idiot free, we wouldn't be having this discussion because without buyers there would be not sellers.

--Pete

[Seaular]

I definately do not understand the selling of items, but I'm really not against it. It's become sad that some people have eliminated the "game" aspect from the game (if that makes sense). I will never understand why someone would first spend money for the game, and then spend even more money for someone to play the game for them and give them their "uber" gear. It's like buying a movie, and then paying someone to tell you how it ends.

That being said, I have no problem with the people who sell items that they find online. If there's a buyer for something that you spent hours to find, so be it. I actually thought about doing it a year ago, I would have made some pretty good cash, but I decided against it, because I didn't want Diablo to become a "job."

But then there's the dilemma that brings the cheating aspect in. When I can't play on the realms because they're bogged down with people trying to exploit the latest dupe method-with items that they might sell online, it's gone too far. There's a hope with 1.10, that cheating will be averted, but we're all aware of how well Blizzard has handled hacks/cheats. If 1.10 keeps it's promise, I'll once again welcome the sale of items with open arms.

[Feryar]

I don't think 1.10 will fix the duping problem. They will (hopefully) close some holes, but in doing so they will probably create new ones. As others have pointed out; as long as there is money to make people will keep looking for holes. And Blizzards coders is seriously outnumbered.

In an online world nothing is secure. Make it waterproof, and someone will invent better water ;)

It could perhaps be an idea for Blizzard to aproach ebay and have this stop, but I'm not really sure that would help either. There is always someplace else they can go to sell their items. But if it did not happen in such a "safe" environment (safe for the buyers) they might not have sold as much as they do today.

[the Langolier]

A The buyers of these items are the fools... B The ultimate destination of these people is "No, I never played Crapola. But I paid an expert and he finished it FOR ME in record time. That makes me leet."

A - I would have to disagree. A fool is someone who does something even though they know they shouldn't.
B - True, but they may not see this.

People buy that which gives them utility (satisfaction), and they will make rational decisions to maximize it. The problem is that people do not have perfect forsight, and thus can make poor or irrational decisions. No one who buys these items is stupid, although they may appear that way.

Take case 1, for example, a person who purchases an item that he/she feels will improve their character. Let's make it an amazon buying a windforce. Not only do they get a rare and powerful item, they also get to forgoe the time they would have spent to find their own. How much all of this is worth to them depends on the person; it seems this is worth $0 to many people here. It is quite practical that months from the purchase the buyer is still using the bow and even has it personalized/socketed.

Take case 2 now. A person buys a mule that is full of high-end gear, then proceeds to deck out an amazon and go to town on hell cows. What benefit do they get at this time? Tons! They get the excitment of not only seeing, but having all these rare, godly items. They didn't even have to do 8000 MF mephisto runs to get it either. They also get the immediate gratification of being extremely powerful - being able to kill any monster or player without effort. Again, depending on the person this can be worth a lot of money. What this person doesn't see, however, is that there really is no game anymore. They did not see that they would be ruining the game for themselves in the long run, they only saw the instant gratification. So were they a fool? No. At the time they made the decision, it looked like a pretty good deal.

Of course, the person in case 1 could just as easily tire of the windforce and regret the purchase, just as the person in case 2 could be happy ever after with their godly items. There will always be buyers because those items/benefits will always be rewarding to someone at the time of the purchase. The amount of time they are rewarded by the purchase really determines if they were "foolish" or not. Luckily the majority of people here are of those that can see the long run, which is why no one here seems to be a big proponent of buying junk on e-bay. I really don't see anything wrong with buying items on battle.net (ignoring legal issues), all ebay does is create a marketplace that is much more effecient than LoD Trading Post. Lucky for me, I don't need it, because a windforce on the realms is no different than a windforce on single player, and I know a little bit about "treasureclassex.txt".

[Swarmalicious]

In fear of losing Lurker respect (which I consider valuble) I offer the following narrative:

I sold legitimate items on Ebay for about three months, and made $1,700. I split this money with my good friend (let's call him "Bob"...since that's actually his name) who helped me MF all the stuff.
The hacking/duping issue stings a little harder for us, I think, because we went from doing something that was possibly immoral to belonging by association to a group that will obviously be condemned to hell.

A little history:
Bob is kind of a jerk. He is scorchingly competitive, opinionated, crude to the point of embarrassment, and as influencial as a tv evangelist. He's also one of my best friends, and an almost constant D2 playing partner. When this game was released, like Starcraft before it, we spent obscene globs of time in our respective homes glued to our monitors in shared addiction. It was a good time, although our estranged girlfriends wholeheartedly disagree. The devil didn't make me do it, the devil and Bob did.

When he sent me the first screenshots from his d2 classic MF Barb, surrounded in a3 hell by dozens of then prized yellows, I wondered why anyone would spend time "finding" items. Why not just do the quests? What a waste of time.
Then I discovered tweaking. Soon after I was on the ladder. Out of thousands upon thousands of players, in hardcore no less, there was my name, for all to see. A payoff hardly worth the 30 hours a week I was sinking into playing, but a payoff nonetheless. Remember signing on and joining one of maybe 3 hell games? Yeah, me too.
My ego and I digress...
So, expansion comes out, yada yada yada, we play and play, like everyone else. I get into playing only variants, and forget about the stupid, firewall sorceress-infested ladder. Then, I lose my favorite paladin to some cruel bastard with a Druid helm bug up his sleeve and that's it, man, I am done. Diablo is for losers, and I was playing too much anyway. Forget that.
By then, checking the lounge & Dii.net are habits, because of the decent writing, I continue to peruse throughout my months of D2 abstinence... until one day I read about the Anderson brothers. Wow. Getting paid to play video games... can you imagine? Short of playtesting, that seems about as close as one can get to slacker heaven. Deep down I still love playing D, and I could really use the extra money. Bob and I talk it over, and our chips are in.
So we begin, and right off the bat it's not what we think. First off, we aren't the only people who read about the Andersons. Ebay is kind of swamped, and competition is fierce. Second, every shred of fun is stripped from the game, as we spend about 6 hours a day killing Mephisto and the Council, and Mehpsito and the Council, and over and over and over and over and over. Then - 1 hour in photoshop, a half hour on ebay and - someone bids! Dude look at that! Free money! That armor we found is selling for ...er... 5... wait... going up ...um... hmm. 5 Dollars and 25 cents. Ok, 5.25 divided by two, divided by six... that comes to... 43 cents an hour.
Sometimes we made a little more than that. A little.
And so it went for 3 not-exactly-funfilled months. I'd like to mention that our customers, every one, were usually ecstactic, at the very least happy, to get their things. Also, it was always strange for me. Every time I'd meet with someone and do our socially pleasant, if immoral, transaction I felt like some kind of drug dealer. I never got over that weird feeling, and squirmed a little despite the exclamations of joy I would get everytime I dropped the buyer's little prize by the stash. The ethics of selling marajuana is, I suppose, along the same lines in a way.
Then one seller joined our ranks. His screename was HackDupe. What an ---hole. Believe me when I say that its not that he took our piddly lumps of paypal plunder away - its that we suddenly belonged to a group of (what was for me, without a doubt) a group of straight-up criminals.

It like this: the way I see it, there are decent arguments for and against playing poker for money. Once someone starts printing their own aces, however, it becomes evil - hands down. Honestly I don't see how "prosperous" dupers live with themselves... if the guilt I feel from my involvement is any indication, these revolting scabs will have to be suicidal at some point.

Thanks for hearing me out - please don't judge too harshly... I quit 2 years ago, and I've no plans of going back.

Constant lurker,

Swarmalicious

[Occhidiangela]

What you were doing is a lot closer to selling a few nickel bags of pot than you might realize.

Video game addiction, drug addiction, and for that matter, tobacco addiction are all subsets of compulsive behavior. Feeding the craving for items on Ebay is the same sort of action supporting the compulsive behavior as selling a guy a nickel bag of pot.

As to those who buy: their thirst for gratification has overcome their inhibitions, just like a man and his bottle, or a rogue and her caffeine. (Hey, how did that get in there?!!)

The reasoning offered by the Brent fellow in the linked Anderson articles has to do with ego stroking: he did not want to 'appear to be a newb.'

Huh?

He's 42 and worries about the opinions of folks in on line games? His hobby, his dough, his free time, or lack of it, I suppose, and his own self-esteem issues, whatever they may be.

Perhaps some folks see 'Compete Free Over Battlenet' and infer that the competition is to see who gets the neatest stuff first, or at all.

That almost makes sense to me, even though it is not my cup of tea.

[--Pete]

Hi,

A fool is someone who does something even though they know they shouldn't.

The first definition in www.m-w.com for fool is "a person lacking in judgment or prudence". Knowing what one should do is judgment, doing it is prudence. You (along with Humpty Dumpty) are free to adopt whatever meaning you want for a word. The rest of the world is free to disagree. However, that makes the discussion pointless.

they will make rational decisions to maximize it.

No. In most cases people will rationalize the purchase of what they desire, however irrational that desire is. As in buying a 200 mph car in a country with maximum 70 mph speed limits. Most people wouldn't know a rational though if it bit them, and probably would die from the shock of something so foreign to their experience.

No one who buys these items is stupid, although they may appear that way.

Stupid and foolish are not the same thing. Stupid is lacking brainpower. Luck of the genetic draw. Foolish is not using that brainpower. There are many smart fools.

they also get to forgoe the time they would have spent to find their own.

Games are pastimes! As in "something that amuses and serves to make time pass agreeably" (same source). Anyone who spends money in order to avoid having to spend time in a game is more than a fool, he is an idiot. In case those braniacs never figured it out, there are no other returns from a game than those obtained by playing it. If those returns don't work for someone, then they should find something else that interests them. If they can't find anything that interests them, then they should kill themselves and quit wasting the air that a relatively *intelligent* being (like a slug) could be using.

They did not see that they would be ruining the game for themselves in the long run, they only saw the instant gratification. So were they a fool? No. At the time they made the decision, it looked like a pretty good deal.

First, one sure indication of a fool is that he cannot tell a good deal form Shinola. So, is he a fool? Yeah. By and large, anyone looking for "instant gratification" is a fool. More so in a game than anywhere else.

Consider: games are totally optional. There is no law, no natural drive, not even any real social pressure to play games. So, if one is going to spend the money to get games, then the only reasonable justification is for the enjoyment of the gaming experience. But, the gaming experience is the "doing" not the "having". Anyone who does not see this has a severe (but fairly common in our society) maladjustment to the world around them. And that outlook -- the idea that *owning things* will make them happy -- is what makes them fools. Fools because there has never been a recoded case where that actually worked.

Sorry, I can understand the sellers. Pure profit motive and easy suckers to fleece. But the buyers? Fools every one. Chasing a worthless goal in pursuit of what they threw away when they spent their money.

--Pete

[Swarmalicious]

Everyone knows someone involved with drugs, and I'm relatively certain that everyone has a pot-head (or worse) friend or family member. As such, most people are familiar with the concept of 'selling to support your habit', where a user will obtain and sell an amount of substance large enough to keep what's left over after breaking even on his original purchase - thus getting his dope for "free".

Believe me, looking at my Barbarian's equipment set-up when all was said and done, the simliarity between myself & the proverbial user/dealer was not lost on me.

Which, despite all the hours of fun and intelligent stuff that's come from the game (which is nowhere as prevalent as LL) it still saddens me that 'addict' really can apply to both circumstances.
At what point is escapism harmful? Do D2 players (and pot smokers for that matter) actually need to check themselves, or is it really all just good fun? --Perhaps that's another thread...


Also - I thought it noteworthy to mention that we really never found too many ubers at all (I think Tal Rasha's Armor, once) and we played to find items A LOT. That's 2 people at sometimes 10 hours a day... Hell Baal, Snapchip, Pindleskin etc...
to this day it baffles how anyone legitimately found even some of the equipment I hear nonchalantly rattled off in online character builds and such:
"...for your PvP paladin, just make sure you get 70% damage reduced..." <--Say what? Yeah sure thing buddy! Piece of cake...

Were we playing the same game?

[the Langolier]

The first definition in www.m-w.com for fool is "a person lacking in judgment or prudence".

In that case we can make this word mean whatever we want. Do you prefer "To behave in a playful or comical manner.", or how about "To engage in casual, often promiscuous sexual acts", or even:

"a person who habitually reasons from obviously or demonstrably incorrect premises and cannot be persuaded by evidence to do otherwise; it is not generally used in its other senses, i.e., to describe a person with a native incapacity to reason correctly, or a clown. Indeed, many fools are capable of reasoning all too effectively in executing their errors."

So, pick any word you wish in its stead.

In most cases people will rationalize the purchase of what they desire, however irrational that desire is.

Who are you to say what is an irrational desire to someone or not? Not everyone is as blessed as you to have your opinions/desires. If someone has a desire, be it a fast car or biting their toenails, if they find pleasure in it then there is nothing irrational about it. A person's decision may appear irrational to you, because you would not make the same desicion, but it is their decision.

Most people wouldn't know a rational though if it bit them, and probably would die from the shock of something so foreign to their experience.

I'll just ignore this. Here comes my favorite:

Games are pastimes! As in "something that amuses and serves to make time pass agreeably" (same source). Anyone who spends money in order to avoid having to spend time in a game is more than a fool, he is an idiot. In case those braniacs never figured it out, there are no other returns from a game than those obtained by playing it.

People can find different returns from the same game. Some people find it in doing hours of MF runs in order to get the best items, simply because of the excitment of identifying rare and powerful items in the game. That is fine. Some people, such as yourself, find it in "playing the game" (which I assume you mean completeing quests, developing characters, etc.). That is fine. Some people purchase items so they don't have to do the hours of MF runs to find the good items. Exactly how does this mean they are not playing the game? I would never consider hours of MF runs to be playing. Anyways, after they get these items, what do they do? They play the game. Perhaps this is nothing but dueling. Perhaps it is killing a thousand hell cows in a row. Perhaps it is pking other players. That is simply the aspect of the game they choose to play. Now, if someone bought $100 worth of items, then uninstalled Diablo, it would be pretty hard to argue that they are not a fool. I am inclined to believe, however, that most (if not all) people did not do this, and actually used the purchased gear.

I love to develop my characters. But I do find it is very thrilling to see an item drop with gold text, especially exceptional/elite items. When I don't find such items, I load up my little modification, and go kill quill rats in act 1 and watch elite uniques fall from the sky. I identify them, drool over their stats, and dream of the day I can find it on my own and use it. Then I drop it and move on. You can't do this on realms. Although I would never pay money to get the same feeling on the realm, some people will. Based on: "Anyone who spends money in order to avoid having to spend time in a game is more than a fool, he is an idiot", I would call anyone who purchased a hamburger at a fast food joint a fool for not preparing it themselves at home :)

If those returns don't work for someone, then they should find something else that interests them. If they can't find anything that interests them, then they should kill themselves and quit wasting the air that a relatively *intelligent* being (like a slug) could be using.

This really didn't add anything to (positive) your post. Anyways, the "returns" again can be however a person chooses to play the game, and I can garuntee that they do work for them, even if it is for a limited time. Godly items can definitely add to a person's returns when they duel when the items cause them to win much more often. They get to sacrifice true skill for better items - but winning is winning some would say. And a dedicated dueler wants to win.

So, if one is going to spend the money to get games, then the only reasonable justification is for the enjoyment of the gaming experience. But, the gaming experience is the "doing" not the "having". Anyone who does not see this has a severe (but fairly common in our society) maladjustment to the world around them.

Again. To YOU, the gaming experience is doing, and not having. That does NOT in any way mean that is how it is for other people. Besides, people can "have" and "do" it at the same time. You can easily have the best items around and still "do" (play) the game by dueling, cowing, pking, or even going through the game act by act.

Fools every one. Chasing a worthless goal in pursuit of what they threw away when they spent their money.

You went for a hat trick! Just because items on ebay may be worthless to you, that doesn't mean they are to everybody. You are judging other peoples decisions based on YOUR values. You think it is foolish to buy items on ebay - so be it. Don't buy them (as I am sure you do not). This doesn't mean that other people feel the same way. If they wish to buy something that brings them joy, that is fine, and I don't see anything irrational or foolish about it. Even if they do end up spoiling their own game, they don't see this fact at the time they buy them, so it is still a rational decision.