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Baylan · 05-28-2003, 07:57 PM

I recieved my weekly Newsweek and Time magazines, and giddy with anticipation I opened it up and began to read the cover story which I knew would include pictures of some of my friends, as the number one school in the nation, according to Newsweek, is within my district.

You can find the article at http://www.msnbc.com/news/917011.asp?0nw=n2d and the complete list of the top 737 at http://www.msnbc.com/news/912995.asp?cp1=1 .

What I found inside the article was hardly what I was expecting however as I read through it I began to get a little bit more frustrated and a little bit more angry at the authors. The most infuriating line of course, being

Quote:The commitment to giving more high schoolers a useful dose of college exam-week trauma has turned an old elementary-school building in Bloomfield Hills, MIch., into an IB hothouse - and the top school on the 2003 NEWSWEEK list. Five hundred teenagers, picked by a lottery from 13 local district, have enrolled in the International Academy, while their neighborhood friends shy away from the workload.

Page 53, paragraph 5

Shy away from the workload? I'm friends with several of the students at the Internation Academy, while their 'workload' is higher than us in a few cases there are others where the students have less homework on average than those of us that go into one of the local schools. Not only that, but one student who visited Andover (my home school) when considering leaving The I.A. to come to our school next year found that our classes in some cases were actually more difficult than what they were currently studying - though, that might have been due to the fact he wasn't studying it.

The fact of the matter is though if you look closely at the statistics for example, The I.A. is ranked with a 6.323 ratio and its closest competitor Stanton College Prep comes in at a whopping 5.639, you'll realize that these statistics seem a bit odd. What are they based on? What IS the ratio? What about the schools? Well, the statistics are based upon the number of AP/IB tests taken divided by the number of graduating seniors. Yes, I am saying that the statistic has NOTHING to do with the scores on the exams - it is based solely on the number of tests given and the population at the school!

I am not debating whether or not The International Academy is a good school, I know it is a fantastic educational facility but it shouldn't be ranked number one simply because of a ratio that is given when all Juniors/Seniors at said school are FORCED to take AP/IB exams. Shouldn't a schools actual performance on said exams be more important than whether or not they took them? I most certainly believe so, as do many of my peers at Andover.

Another glazing over in the article is a picture that is on pages 52 and 53. There is a picture of The International Academy's portion of the Bloomfield Hills robotics team with their national championship robot as well as with the caption

Quote:The robotics team at International Academy, which recently captured a national championship, also draws from area schools.

Anyone think this is just a slight bit misleading? I certainly do, sounds like this is the official International Academy Robotic's Team, who are now national champions - except it isn't. This is the International Academy's members of the Bloomfield Hills Robotic's Team.

I could go on, but this is beginning to get a little bit longer than expected already and I want to hear the input of others. I intend on writing an email or letter to Newsweek sometime in the next couple of days with my friends... But with all this information that I've got to shed on this article, I'm wondering if anyone agrees with me on the fact that a schools SCORES should be used to judge their places at the #1, #2, or #59712987321 instead of the number of people taking the tests. I'm wondering if the misrepresentation in Newsweek about the "International Academy's Robotic Team" *cough* Bloomfield Hills Robotics Team *cough* are enough to help look at this article the right way. I disagree with the article on many of its points, but mostly those which talk about the IA and how it is so 'great'. It isn't anything special, its just a school where there are no sports, where there are no gym classes, where you have 6 academics and some sort of music class. You are forced to take the APs, you are forced to take it all. To put it as one of my friends did "We have the choice to take those tests, and thats why our school is better."

Either way, it comes down to this... I needed to vent a bit, share my opinion. What do you think?

Baylan

--Pete · 05-28-2003, 08:10 PM

Hi,

I think that the very fact that anyone can make up a list like that speaks poorly of the equity of our school system.

Sure, that's idealistic, but since when is having ideals a bad thing?

Oh, and as to the article, welcome to the real world. From now on, every time you read a story anywhere, ask yourself if they got the facts right *this time*.

--Pete

Occhidiangela · 05-28-2003, 08:58 PM

Baylan · 05-28-2003, 09:40 PM

Hello Occhi!

Heh, I don't think there was ever any denial of the fact that the majority of these schools in the top portion are going to be pricey. I won't even attempt to deny the fact that I'm well off, better off than the majority of the country - if not the world.

Thats an interesting trend that you pointed out though, that 13 of the top 109 schools are from Virginia, all in the same general area. I definately do agree when you say money talks though, no doubts about it. Money will get you where you need to be in life - especially with education. The IA has some 500 students in it, and gets over 1 million dollars a year from my school district alone and it caters to 13? I believe it was stated in the article.

My school however, while catering to a large populace of upper-middle class, to the upper class itself also has more than its fair share of people who aren't as well off as people might imagine considering where they go to school and where they live. My school is also the most diverse school I've ever seen, and I've lived in Chicago, New Jersey, as well as Indiana. Muslims, Asians, Jews, and Christians are all well represented in my school as well as many other ethnicities that I either don't know the name of, or haven't even heard of yet. The customs and ideas of each of these religions affects us, daily and has made us better for it.

To Pete:

I most definately do realize that news is not 100% accurate, though from my experiences Newsweek tends to be more accurate than others, and usually the writers write in a tasteful and tactful manner, with some thought provoking articles. This one just kind of struck closer to home because of all the things being misconstrued about The IA as well as the district schools. I only hope that this isn't representative of their articles every month.

Baylan

kandrathe · 05-28-2003, 10:43 PM

It seemed very odd to me. Large states, and those with large urban areas are definately over represented. I also note the correlation to wealth in those schools mentioned from my state. Also, that study is skewed by the existence of private schools, which are almost as numerous as public now here.

In 2001, the state I live in, Minnesota was 4th in state taxes per capita, (avg $2,711) and 10th in $ spent per student (avg $1,979). With the effort and focus on education (roughly 30% of our state budget) has in our state, I think we should be better represented in that list. There were about a dozen I did see on the list, and they are some of the largest schools in the state. Also, the urban schools here have organized into what they call a magnet program. Many schools choose an area of expertise, say journalism, technology, or performing arts. These special program schools are placed in minority areas, to encourage voluntary integration. So, it is not unusual for all the "egg heads" to be in one basket, so to speak.

keenduck · 05-28-2003, 11:05 PM

Are you missing a factor of ten in there, kandrathe? In New Jersey, the average amount of money spent per student per year often tops $10,000 in some districts. Because of a state law that essentially redistributes school money to poorer districts from wealthier districts, even the poorer districts spend around $8,000 or so (someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few months since I last looked at those figures).

Ah ... you talk about state taxes. As far as I know, education is mostly funded at the local level, with some state support, and minimal federal support.

Unless I misread Baylan's post, it sounds like the I.A. has a $13 million budget ($1 million * 13 districts), and only 500 students. That's ... $260,000 per student. *gulp* Hope I did my math wrong there. :(

Dozer · 05-28-2003, 11:48 PM

72 . Buchholz | Gainesville | Fla. | 2.573

That's me! Wow, our school really sucks, it should not be on any list whatsoever. (And it's not just the I-Hate-School talk, our school has roaches living in the Chemical closet :blink: )

Mithrandir · 05-29-2003, 02:29 AM

Baylan: Well it's a small world afterall :) I live in Birmingham - just graduated from Brother Rice myself. Nice to know there's a Lurker in the area.

As to the actual post... You're giving I.A. too much credit. I've known a couple people from it and, well, every single one of them had almost zero homework. What do they do at I.A.? Basically just take practice AP/IB tests over and over and over again: no real knowledge was learned. They hated it there, but there parents seemed convinced that it was a good school (complaints from their children aside) because they were paying so much for it that if it wasn't a good school it was a complete sham. Self denial I suppose.

You want to know the real reason they didn't factor in AP/IB test scores into their formula? Because they needed to get the article out this month to hit their deadline... but AP/IB test scores don't come back until late July.

All this talk about AP tests is making me anxious to see how I did on mine though :D (Come on, Mithy doesn't want to have to take Intro C++ again...)

Mithrandir · 05-29-2003, 02:32 AM

Quote:1. Bloomfield Hills (Let's just say that's a pricey neighborhood. My brother used to live near there, could not come close to affording it.)

Oakland County (the county in which Bloomfield Hills is located) was actually rated number one in America, above even Orange County, in terms of affluence a year or two ago.

We also have one of the highest drug rates in America - w00t, go rich white kids <_<

Isolde · 05-29-2003, 03:16 AM

found my old school:

50 . Gunn | Palo Alto | Calif. | 2.791

a fair amount of money, but it's public and non magnet. about 1650 students (9-12).

AP results from 2002 by score (1091 tests taken)
1:19 (1.7%)
2:63 (5.8%)
3:186 (17%)
4:368 (34%)
5:455 (42%)

compare with:

10 . Los Angeles Center for Enriched Studies | Los Angeles | Calif. | 3.893

which is a public, magnet school with about 1550 students

AP results from 2002 by score (619 tests taken)
1:159 (26%)
2:154 (25%)
3:164 (26%)
4:94 (15%)
5:48 (7.7%)

and

47 . La Jolla Calif. | La Jolla | Calif. | 2.802

which is a public, non-magnet school in a ritzy neighborhood with about 1650 students

AP results from 2002 by score (1055 tests taken)
1:42 (3.9%)
2:151 (14%)
3:255 (24%)
4:305 (29%)
5:302 (29%)

and

Lowell | San Francisco | Calif. (not on list, but probably the most famous academic high school in Cali)

which is a public, magnet school which you have to test to get into with about 2550 students

AP results from 2002 by score (2019 tests taken)
1:25 (1.2%)
2:132 (6.5%)
3:382 (19%)
4:692 (34%)
5:788 (39%)

hmmmmmm..... can't say I have much faith in Newsweek's ratings. Their #10 school seems kinda crappy (if you care about AP tests at all that is, but since that's what they're basing their index on...) compared to the others (sure a lot of kids might take AP classes, but very few actually pass the tests).

anyway, stats are from http://www.cde.ca.gov/ope/research/ap/ap02.xls

would be interested to see if any other states maintain these sorts of records and how the other "top" schools rank :)

yangman · (This post was last modified: 05-29-2003, 03:33 AM by yangman.)

Quote:I am not debating whether or not The International Academy is a good school, I know it is a fantastic educational facility but it shouldn't be ranked number one simply because of a ratio that is given when all Juniors/Seniors at said school are FORCED to take AP/IB exams.

Reminds me of the time I found out what the "National Honor Roll" I received for taking the AMC 12 was.

Quote:The National Honor Roll cutoff score, 100 out of 150 possible points, is typically attained or surpassed by fewer than 3% of all participants.

"Only 3%? What is this, a joke?" was the first reaction I had while chatting with my friend about the contest results.
"Well, either participants south of the boarder are generally horrible at these, or too many people were forced in to taking it," we thought.

Looks like we were right in some respects.

Not to brag, but reflecting back to the exam itself and the results of my friends and I, only 3% of the participants receiving that status is pathetic if not only dissapointing.

Personally, IB has a very bad impression on me, simply due to my ex-girlfriend. Spoiled, self-centered, thinks-she's-better-than-everyone-else-because-her-IB-English-teacher-gave-her-a-90-on-an-essay, and dumb as a brick. Not to mention rude, inconsiderate, and egocentric. Oh, did I mention that already? We've been apart for close to nine months now (or is it just over?) and I still wonder what I saw in her in the first place...

Granted, that is only one person's impression, and in no-way applies to anyone else (or so I hope).

My high-school "doesn't believe in IB" and I don't blame them -- sometimes programs like that ruins the school community and only serve to distance the "spoiled nerd-wannabes". Then again, some of them do deserve it...

</rant>

Count Duckula · 05-29-2003, 05:35 AM

Baylan,May 28 2003, 07:48 PM Wrote:To put it as one of my friends did "We have the choice to take those tests, and thats why our school is better."

Either way, it comes down to this... I needed to vent a bit, share my opinion. What do you think?

I had the pleasure of receiving a Virginia education. Still do, in fact.

Some school counselor put me down as having "volatile brilliance" and it's stuck with me ever since. I was canned from the Governor's School (seems to be my equivalent of this IA thing) because my math and math-based science entry scores were too low, while my english and history scores were above-average.

GCS is the school-within-a-school, bringing together the local high schools in an accelerated education program. Basically, that means kids from all over the county are bussed to our school or receive live audio/video feed to take all AP courses. You couldn't pick and choose what you wanted to take in the program; if you enrolled in GCS, you enrolled in everything. Not all of these AP courses are available to kids outside the program, however, but who cared if Average Joe/Jane wanted to take AP European History? The exams for GCS students, however, were optional, while they were mandatory for regular students. GCS had their own talent show, recitals, performances, and ranked their special little darlings with the "regular" graduating class, so their weighted 5.0 GPAs easily claimed the top 30 or so slots in the class rank.

For a while I thought this was sour grapes, and I was just mad that I didn't qualify to get in. But then I got over it. There will always be spectrum differences. That's life. Did I really want to be suffering with the rich kids taking AP Physics instead of all those writing and journalism classes I took instead? Did I really want to deal with the snobbery, the hypocrisy, and the rule bending? (Guess how many of the little darlings were under the influence of illegal-in-one-way-or-another things. C'mon. Guess.)

Naturally, I went to a college where all of this comes back full force. The have-alls get a better quality of education, the have-nones follow the Swipple Rule of Order, one of Murphy's many corollaries ("he who shouts the loudest has the floor"), leaving the rest to take their pickins.

Find your own niche and fight for it, I say.

whyBish · 05-29-2003, 05:52 AM

Baylan,May 29 2003, 08:48 AM Wrote:Well, the statistics are based upon the number of AP/IB tests taken divided by the number of graduating seniors. Yes, I am saying that the statistic has NOTHING to do with the scores on the exams - it is based solely on the number of tests given and the population at the school!

I'm confused. Doesn't that mean that the lower numbers are better, or is graduation automatic (which would make the ratio meaningless)?

Baylan · 05-29-2003, 02:40 PM

Hello whyBish!

No, it means that the scores on the tests weren't factored in. The kids taking the AP/IB testing at IA could score a 1 (the lowest score) and they would still have the same ratio, while the kids at my school who have a ratio of 2 could be getting all 5s, and they would STILL be ranked above ours by Newsweek.

To Mithrander - Congrats on graduating from Brother Rice. I know they have a fine sports program over there, did you play any? I do football and track over here but we didn't play Brother Rice in any sports that I know of. Its also nice to hear that a Lurker lives around here... *begins singing It's a Small World Afterall* Maybe we can meet sometime? ;) I usually head up to Birmingham at least one night a week on the weekends. No funny buisiness though - I may be smaller than average but a lot of the guys at my school respect/are scared of me :P. Oh yeah, good luck with Intro to C++, I'm taking the Intro to Programming class at Andover right now... Pascal *puke*. Thankfully I've already taken the final so I get to play games for the rest of the year... Or visit the lounge which happens to be what I'm doing right now.

Baylan

kandrathe · 05-29-2003, 04:39 PM

I was just citing the actual State contribution to each school per student. In our state the bulk of school funding comes from property taxes that are levied locally, that is also the bulk of property taxes.

soccerguy315 · (This post was last modified: 05-29-2003, 09:49 PM by soccerguy315.)

Occhi...

you went to Herndon? Hmm... here I am, now attending South Lakes, it's a small world. I also immediatelyÂ Â noticed the high number of schools from fairfax county. I believe the household income in the county now is around $100,000. I honestly have no idea where our teachers live, well, actually I do, many of them ilve in Loudoun County. I am enrolled in the IB Diploma, so I know how much work it is... I believe there's about 45-50 candidates at my school, a number which should drop before graduation

EDIT: I now see it says they don't measure schools who have more than half their students admitted through a testing process.

I'd also like to say that I am "enjoying" the IB program, if you can call it that, although we already took our IB Calc Exam, yet my math teacher is still teaching, and just assigned us 350-400 problems for next week... I don't think many people will do them, especially since most people in my class are seniors and already know where they are going. The IB program is much more writing intensive than AP, as you have to write for everything, including Math. The foreign language exams also include oral parts, as does English. And there is no multiple choice on most of the IB Exams, the only exception i know of is that Chemistry has 1 section of multiple choice, most IB tests also consist of 3 sections...

/end rant about how [imho] ib is more work yet earns less college credit.

FenrisWulf · (This post was last modified: 05-30-2003, 07:32 AM by FenrisWulf.)

@Isolde:
That's amazing; you went to the same high school as both my current roommates attended. :P Wow. Good people they're sending out of there. :D

Woot, my school is on the list! Gogo James Madison High School (heh, lots of Virginians around here).

EDIT: Forgot about my other roommate, who also attended Gunn. :)

Isolde · 05-30-2003, 07:56 AM

Small world (as has already been said many times :) ). Where do you go to school, Fenris, and what year are your roommates?

FenrisWulf · 05-30-2003, 09:06 AM

I'm currently attending Stanford University (right in your neighborhood :D), and both of my roommates are sophomores, like myself. Hm...although the year is nearly over, and we're about to get upgraded. College_Students.exe, v.3.0, if you will. :)

Isolde · 05-30-2003, 09:28 AM

yeah, you're right next door practically :). anyway, i was thinking one of your roomies might even know my bros (class of '98 and class of '02). probably not though

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