The HULK

[Guest]

I just got done seeing the HULK for the first time. It was great. Just wanted to let everyone know

[[wcip]Angel]

Ok.

And what did you like? The music, the dialogue, the setting, the actors, the characters? Were you a big fan of the comic? Did the film actually have anything to do with the comic books?

A friend of mine who is an avid Hulk-fan, and has been for many years, thought the film stunk.

I didn't ask him why, as I have no intention of going to see it. (I haven't even seen Matrix II yet.)

[WarLocke]

I just got back from the movie, so here's my review:

Background: I've never been a big Hulk fan, never really followed his comics other than when he made guest appearances (Hulk vs Weapon X, etc), so I guess I didn't go in with too many expectations.

The first thing I have to note is that while Ang Lee can definitely use camera angles to get the mood going, he has a tendency to do a sort of collage--several windows each showing basically the same scene from a different angle, all at the same time. The effect works, but I found it a bit disorientating at first.

I didn't notice the music much, but I put that to me concentrating on all the great CG in my first viewing.

Speaking of CG, all the effects were done well, even the Hulk. The only complaint I had was that the CG characters (Hulk, and some four-legged critters) seemed to be a little too, well, graceful? I guess would be the word. Hulk was modeled beautifully, but his movements didn't telegraph. A body that size, super strength or not, has alot of inertia to overcome when changing directions, and it just didn't seem like that was portrayed well.

The setting worked for me (not being a comic buff, anyway), except for the change to the Hulk's origin. I can see why it was changed (similar reasons for having Spider-Man bitten by a genetically altered spider instead of a radioactive one; using current fears), but the explanation they chose was hackneyed. All of a sudden the Hulk is a mutant? (ok, not really a mutant, but inheriting his father's altered DNA is about this |--| far from it)

I can't speak for authenticity of the actors vs the comic, but the ones they chose fit the movie well. Eric Bana really does come across as a bottled-up semi-nerd who could blow his top at any moment. The guy who played Talbot could really do a jerk, and Sam Elliot's character was much deeper than I was expecting. Nick Nolte left a bit to be desired as David Banner, though (and the whole plot twist with him seemed so surreal and unneccessary).

The dialogue was pretty good. Bana didn't really have many stand-out lines (but then again, he spends half the movie as the Hulk), but some of the extra's lines are memorable. My favorite: "Holy sh*t, he's got my missile!" :ph34r:

All in all, I thought the Hulk was a pretty dang good movie that could use a lot less Absorbing Man.

- WL

[LiquidDamage]

Hulk was modeled beautifully, but his movements didn't telegraph.  A body that size, super strength or not, has alot of inertia to overcome when changing directions, and it just didn't seem like that was portrayed well.

The hulk can lift around 100 tons overhead, and weighs around 1200 lbs. I can probably lift 120 lbs overhead, on a good day, and weigh 160.

It didn't bother me in the slightest that the Hulk didn't have any trouble moving around, because he should have a much easier time than I do.

[Guest]

The animation of the hulk and **SPOILER ALERT** his mutated parent were nice, however the background story was pretty sh*tty, I mean, it all centered around his dream or whatever and somehow he is doing the same thing is father did and he doesn't remember some stuff... blah blah. In other words, it was a pretty weak explanation.

The highlights of the movie for me were the scenes fighting the dogs and the one were the electricity is mutating the crazy scientist... btw: why does he (Hulks daddy) want to kill the kid out of pity when he can't cure him, but then want to use him for world domination? Did they say somthing to explain his change of mind that i missed? IMO, The Hulk was medeocre at best.

2 out of 5 stars. :blink:

[pakman]

All I have heard from people is that it sucked. I have basically seen the movie on tv already though, so I see no point in going to see the movie...sorry.

[LiquidDamage]

Just a clarification there.

Minor Spoiler Warning: I share my opinion of the ending, without saying what happened.



I'll break what I thought of the movie into pros and cons:

Pros:
1) The Hulk looked fantastic, unless you are one of those people that criticized the CG in the Matrix: Revolutions. He was a giant, green, mutant goliath, not just Lou Ferrigno painted green. He was the Hulk. He tossed around and tore apart tanks, jumped miles at a time, trashed everything around him, and couldn't be stopped by conventional weaponry. (This may be a con to those who think the Hulk came from a TV show in the late 70's. One friend of mine was making fun of all this stuff I mentioned, as if the Hulk didn't do any of that)

2) The acting was probably the best from any superhero movie since the first Batman. Nick Nolte and Sam Elliot were wonderful, and Eric Bana played the part he was given quite well.

3) Jennifer Connely is so stunningly gorgeous in this movie that I couldn't think about anything else when she was on screen. I'd comment on her acting, but I ... *drool*

Cons:
1) The "comic book" style with split screens and such annoyed me, and reminded me that I was watching a movie because I thought, "the director is trying to show off".

2) It was pretty slow for the first half of the movie.

3) The ending was very anti-climactic, which pretty much ruined the movie for me. I like a good, climactic ending. This is likely the reason most people say that it sucked. The ending indeed did suck.

I am hoping that they will make a sequel with the same actors and CG artists, but a new writer. The direction was good with the exception of those stupid Charlie's Angels- style split screens.

[joberelum]

Well I thought it was pretty entertaining - a bit slow in the beginning, but well worth the wait for the latter parts of the film.

When I say pretty entertaining, I mean I had fun watching it. I might even go see it again with my brother (who has not yet seen it) just because of that - if you just relax and suspend disbelief its not a bad friday evening pastime.

I did think they did a good job setting the moody tone for the hero.

Liquid - you're spot on about Jennifer Connely!

***SPOILER***


Hey did you guys catch the Ferrigno cameo? the crowd went nuts lol. And how about ending with the Bill Bixby line?

peace,

[channel1]

Just a quickie comment with regards the continuity with the comic.

WarLocke said:
The setting worked for me (not being a comic buff, anyway), except for the change to the Hulk's origin. I can see why it was changed (similar reasons for having Spider-Man bitten by a genetically altered spider instead of a radioactive one; using current fears), but the explanation they chose was hackneyed. All of a sudden the Hulk is a mutant? (ok, not really a mutant, but inheriting his father's altered DNA is about this |--| far from it)

It was established in the comic in the '70s that Bruce Banner's DNA was messed up, in that it allowed him to survive the radiation that turned him into the Hulk. His sidekick, Rick Jones, exposed himself to gamma rays to become the Teen Hulk (ooo!) to save the day, and got terminal cancer from it.

The Rick Jones / cancer storyline carried over to Captain Marvel, where Rick was cured but Marv bought the farm.

I have no idea how closely the movies keep to the current continuity in the comics, I cut myself off in '88, figuring that 30 years was long enough. :)

-rcv-

[Occhidiangela]

Occhi the Rogue's rating system: Three and a half Westmarch Bitters, out of a possible five.

Discussion:


SPOILERS!! BEWARE!!!

Overall, I sort of enjoyed it. Bruce Banner, played by Mr Bana, did a pretty nice job. He aced Toby McGuire of Spiderman by about an order of magnitude. Well done Mr Bana. Two Westmarch Bitter's For You, Ogden, ring them up!

1. I took my son, 11. Stupid idea. I feel like a complete idiot. Not suitable for him, too dark. He found Spiderman OK, this was just a bit much. The psychedelic stuff down inside the genes had my son freaking out. I thought it trite, and pointless. The split screen crap was just that, cutesy Ang Lee crap. No value added, and it even detracted from the presentation.

2. THX jackaknavery. The soundtrack/background sound, was too loud. Although the voices were the correct pitch, everything else was way over amped. It was was about 40% too damned loud, and I am sound tolerant. I have lost some hearing over the years, but even my numb ears thought it was too loud!

3. Miss Ross: decent acting, pretty lady, nice teeth. She uses a MAC. :D

4. Sam Elliot. Nick Nolte. Both were underused, but added much value. Their full value not totally evoked by Mr Lee. Remembering the comics, there was always some general in them chomping on a cigar and trying to take down the Hulk, or so my memory tells me. I liked the way they developed the mad scientist for Nolte // younger Nolte. But, locked away for 30 years, how did he learn to run a modern computer? BAH!!

5. The Hitler Youth Corporate Bad Guy. For Goodness' Sake, another paper doll bad guy!! New 'cliche bad guy,' anyone? However, given what I know about federal acquisition and the Defense Department contracting everything out, it is actually one of the most realistic parts of the plot, the most grounded in reality. Only the guy's personality is two dimensional, his role's motivation is not a bad reflection of reality to a certain extent.

6. Area 51, or Andromeda Strain? The desert lab. OK. :) But what was that green mushroom cloud in the girl's memory, and why was it a mushroom could? Radiation in medical instruments is hardly the same as a bomb. Or, maybe I missed it, did that secret base in the 50's have it's own nuclear reactor? In the desert? Where there is no water to cool it.

7. The CGI Hulk. Excellent. Nicely done. Loved the frog jumping tour of the desert. The leapingest Hulk of Yuma county, anyone?

8. Hulky Features? OK, back to the comic books, it is where the film crossed the line. Self healing, fine versus small arms, but against the Commanche 20MM chain gun, sorry, that was a bit much. Catching the Hellfire missile and tossing it back: Hulk Fu! David CaraGreen! :) Hellfire's blowing up rock formations? Not bloody likely, or at least, not without about four battalions of Apaches doing it. Should have been done by two squadrons of B-1's dropping bunker busters. Hey, the General had 'everything' available per the phone call, right?

Swinging an Abrams tank by the gun? Gun would bend / come out, turret would maybe come off, like the second one, and then there is a nice Hulk-sized badminton racket. :D Abrams rate of fire on the Main Gun, and siting, would have had Hulk hit by four or five main gun rounds per tank. Dead, shredded, or at least swiss cheesed Hulk, so of course the RoE must have been restrictive. ??? Shredding him like that would have been grosser than the dog fight, anyway.

9. Golden Gate Sequence. Jumping on the F-22. Cool, but ridiculous in the extreme due to MV^2. But what the hell. :D Comic book. With his weight, you get two broken tail fins and a crashed jet. However, they went with it, Center of gravity problems for the fighter over the bay, OK, and realism returned. Airplane has service ceiling, (Uh, Hulk held on how with the force of 600KTS of wind pushing against his non aerodynamic form? His hands did not burn from the heat on wing leading edge while airplane climbed???? Right, comic book.) He iced up (realistic), passed out, realistic, fell, reaches terminal velocity, realistic, and then hits the water -- and does not go splat like the exploding frog in the early part of the film. At those velocities, water = concrete due to incompressbility of a liquid, but hey, he's part frog, part jellyfish, part snake, he deals with it and heals real fast. Fair enough. Now, he turns into . . . a great big green mole? OK, it's a comic book, got it.

10. Cal Berkely. 'Nuff said.

11. Dog Fight. Gratuitous in the extreme, except I had to force my self to like it because, he Killed The Poodle! YEAH!!! The dogs were sort of like him, self-healing, and they too got large when mad, so it made sense that he had a hard time in that fight. I wonder if Miss Ross' comprehensive covered damage to her car from giant mutant dogs and big green dude on lizard steroids. :o

12. How it got started, was OK. Doc Bruce Banner, not David Banner. (The TV series was wrong.) The way they set up the Hulk inducing accident I liked, though his dad setting up a similar accident was done how? Most of that stuff was toast already. Fusing to Metal? Comic, right!!

13. Banner, the elder's, rant was semi-coherent if you figure he had considered eugenics in a Macro species sense. As a man obsessed with science, his rant actually made some sense, though it was of course a bit over the top. He's a MAD scientist, remember?

14. Assimilating the energy field . . . OK. It is a comic book. Great cosmic power, teeny tiny credibility. :lol:

15. Using nukes to take him out: nope, not gonna happen. Come up with a better idea, eh?

16. The last line: Great! I was waiting for that all movie long. :D

17. Lou Ferrigno, the cameo, was nice. :) (EDIT here, I spelled Lou's name incorrectly.)

I enjoyed it, but I wish I had not wasted my son's time. That movie needs a 15 year old or so to handle, IMO.

[TaMeOlta]

I enjoyed the movie thoroughly , enough to forgive the slow start and the ending that weirded me out :P ! I took both my little girls to see it , it was a gamble taking my youngest - but it turns out I've created another young "Hulk-o-Maniac" ;) . Just don't ask me how young they are , as that may offend the sensibilities of some parents here :P !

No movie breakdown from me , I agree w/ most of the statements given by the others - I am glad they "added" to the history a bit to attempt to bring the story more up-to-date (concerning the creation of a Hulk) and to show us the breaking point/ madness of David Banner , the struggle of Bruce Banner w/ his inner "Hulk"/self . :D

Heres to hoping for a Hulk 2 w/ more battle sequences !! :D

Till Hulk wears a pink thong , make marvel mine !!

BTW - the Lou Ferrigno cameo , Stan Lee was the other security guard ;)

EDIT: Woot ! After an hour I can finally post ..... thought that Elric guy removed my posting abilities :P

[channel1]

Do they actually state in the movie that the Hulk weighs 1200 pounds? I gather they do say he is 15 feet tall.

At 15 feet / 1200 pounds, if the Hulk was scaled down to 6 feet, he would weigh about 78 pounds. Wotta wimp.

If the Hulk had the build of an average 180 pound 6 foot man, he would weigh about 2800 pounds. If his weight at 6 feet was more appropriate with his build, at 15 feet he would be closer to 4000 pounds.

In the comic continuity, the Hulk's density is increased- if I recall correctly, he was listed as about 7 feet in the comic, and about 1200 pounds. That increased density was the rationale for small arms fire failing to penetrate his skin, and his bones not shattering from stress. Scaling up the 7 foot comic Hulk to 15 feet puts his weight at over 11,000 pounds if we keep the premise of increased density.

A 15 foot Hulk sounds cool, but I'm not gonna ask him in to my house. :)

-rcv

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Height: 7 ft. as green Hulk, 5 ft. 9 in. as Banner, 6 ft. 6 in. as gray Hulk
Weight: 1,040 lbs. as green Hulk, 128 lbs. as Banner, 900 lbs. as gray Hulk
Eyes: Green as green Hulk, Brown as Banner, gray as gray Hulk
Hair: Green as green Hulk, Brown as Banner, black as gray Hulk
Skin: Green as green Hulk, gray as gray Hulk

Source

Don't ask me why I keep that one bookmarked. I won't answer. ;)

[Occhidiangela]

That might help me win 'Who Wants To Be a Millionaire.'

[WarBlade]

SPOILERS TO FOLLOW THROUGHOUT

I've seen it now . . . not bad, but not great either.

Where to begin?

The origin change was a surprise. The green mushroom cloud reeks of an idea that was scripted to remain in keeping with the comicbook backstory, but then messed up when the story became genetic tampering. I don't really get what that was all about. Maybe just a cataclysmic incentive to get David Banner locked away for long enough, since self experimentation and then manslaughter wouldn't carry a thirty year sentence. Ah, who cares? It was big and green.

Bruce Banner having a repressed memory of the past? Nice research! :D Comicbook: Bruce Banner repressed the memory of killing his own father. Well obviously the details had to change, but at least the theme is still there.

The split screens and the one-off vertical slides leading up to the exploding frog. Interesting. Using comicbook framing to convey large amounts of data. As the story progressed I half expected to see this technique highlighting the duality of Banner/Hulk's personality and yet it seemed to focus only on hightened tension situations mostly to cover facial reactions. The result was sooo comicbook. :D

Music: I thought it fell apart in one place, but then the movie corrected me later. Did anyone else notice the cello doing that very Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon asian music thing to the visuals of the three choppers? I found myself wondering what the hell that was about until David visiting Bruce under guard turned his rant momentarily at the soldiers lined up outside . . . very cute. B) Smacks of buried political statements. I like it. B) I doubt the Bush Administration would notice that one though. :P :D

Homage: Bruce Banner entering his old residence and wouldn't you just know it, subtle green lighting on cinderblock walls - shades of an old Hulk logo. He's a clever one that Ang. Then of course cameo's from Stan Lee and Lou Ferrigno. Well at least Stan got more screen time in Hulk than he did on X-Men, but it's strange to think these Marvel Comic adaptations have thus far left his lengthiest performance to a non-Marvel comic film. :blink: I'm also glad they slipped in a "Puny human" from the comic and "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry," from the television show.

The CG: Hulk? Thumbs up. They gave him the full Gollum treatment and modeled every expression Bana could come up with. Notice also that dirt stuck to him too which actually puts him a notch above Gollum in that regard (Gollum was emerging from water without being wet quite a bit). Helicopters and tanks? They were also very well done. Unfortunately, aside from the uprooted streets and other urban chaos, the rest of the effects budget looked to be injected into complete crap. :( The dogs sucked a smelly one. Even in poor lighting they still looked silly. Sand displacement physics fell flat (all they needed was to buy a cow and drag it down the sand dune - instead they must have been filming a fleet footed ballerina for the sand dunes, plus the heavy thump landings of Hulk-hopping had the dust displacement of a crashing ferret - We want cra-ters! We want cra-ters!. Oh, and the graphics for uberdad . . . Well what can I say? Script in a lemon, be prepared for a visual lemon.

At this point I freeze the picture for a moment and say: Director = Good. Scriptwriters = Reactor shielding.

The Supervillain: The Absorbing Man was a Thor villain. :( Hulk movie uberdad was the most sucky puddle of pus I've seen since Jar Jar Binks. That concludes the 'pro's - I'll skip his 'con's altogether.
The Henchmen: There were three dogs in a movie. A rottweiler, a pitbull and a . . . poodle. Some stuff happens and then the poodle delivers the punchline. *barf* Silly silly silly. This is a semi-serious adaptation, not a three dogs joke! Ang Lee losses points for letting that one through. :P
The Dad #1: Doctor Frankstein ripoff. Not much 'mwahaha'ing but a few sinister words of advice to avoid eye contact with Kujo, Gutripper and Tootles probably had more impact, plus some wild eyed ranting about freeing the inner demons and whatnot. As nutters go he was actually quite a riveting nutter in a not-quite Lecter way. A well performed example of Greek Tragedy dad number one with his tragic consequences of short sighted actions.
The Dad #2: Girlfriend's Daddy! The character who means well, but follows the Greek Tragedy procedure manual and does what all other well meaning Greek fathers in Greek Tragedys do: Tragic mistakes. He teetered around a bit though, doing a kind of 'will he, won't he' thing throughout the film between 'will he blunder' or 'will he repent'. Well good thing for him, this military commander with a lifetime of experience and hundreds of armed-to-the-teeth combat troops looking up to him has a daughter to provide useful military tactical advice (Waittaminnit. There's a recurring theme in there somewhere).
The bastard: The vehicle for taking the heat off the girlfriend's dad, who after all means well. Yes everyone loves to hate a complete and utter bastard.
The girlfriend: Let's see . . . gorgeous, forgiving, intelligent, the one being who can tame the beast etc. etc. Awwww innit cute? Those crazy scriptwriters. So they dish up a somewhat perfect girlfriend (trying to come to terms with the imperfect boyfriend) and suck the viewer so far into caring about this girl that when the poo hits the fan you feel so sad. :( You just want to reach out protect the poor lass from everything else those those nutty Hollywood scriptwriters can dream up. Someone burn that Greek Tragedy instruction manual already! Nicely acted though. I never saw Beautiful Mind, but I'm definitely seeing what that Oscar went to. :)

Something positive to say about the characters . . . fantastic acting. Really superb. These actors did a freakishly spectacular job of making their characters into believable personalities, even in spite of the ham fisted acts of stupidity the evil scriptwriters laid out for them. To clarify "ham fisted acts of stupidity" I mean that the dialogue itself was ok, but the plot was worthy of a B grade exploitation writer. Only in the recovery room scene with Nick Nolte by the bed did I cringe at the dialogue . . . I think a couple of people who remained seated for the credits were probably waiting to find out if George Lucas wrote that bit.

Overall, I went in expecting 3 star brain-off entertainment and was basically a little surprised by high quality in some areas, poor quality in others. They could have looked into the psychology of rage angle a lot more than they did and could also have improved the film drastically had they weighed up their script for cheesey elements to kill off. Still, it's worth a look, particularly for those into comicbook adaptations.

And remember kids, if your father is a military genius in need of tactical advice on handling green monsters that are only dangerous when provoked, try, "Don't shoot 'im Dad! You'll just piss 'im off!"

[keenduck]

Can anyone explain what the heck was the ending? Electrowater Nick Nolte? The lake? The water bubble?

And the laughable "One year later ...".

I'm so confused. :huh:

[WarBlade]

David Banner UberDad Absorbing Man absorbs the proprties of anything he touches and basically becomes that stuff. First he started chomping on a fifty zillion volt bit of hose pipe and became a lightning bolt. Then he found some rocks and became rocks. Then he found some Hulk flesh and tried to become Hulkflesh, but ultimately failed and touched water to became water instead. Then he started to displace the ambient energy in the near vicinity causing him to freeze.

That's where it gets weird. I suspect the idea is that he's absorbing so much crap he starts becoming UberZit, primed to pop. That would account for the bubble - some ginormous great floaty thing combining all the stuff he's absorbed and turning green from having a Hulk stuck in it's core.

Then of course Dad #2 goes and blows the living crap out of him with a nuke, as they so often do in Hollywood scripts. :huh:

[Growler]

Although being the Hulk has its upside ("a dream of rage, and power, ... and freedom") Bruce Banner is a martyr in this movie, carrying a heavy burden of emotional baggage but also a 'mutant power' and form that separates him from the rest of humanity.

So, Absorbing Man (the Dad trying to realize his lifelong dream through his son) absorbs the electricity to become a lightning bolt, then rocks, then water. The point of Absorbing Man wrestling with the Hulk is to steal some of the Hulk power for himself. This battle ends with the Hulk shouting at Absorbing Man to "Take it! Take it all! See if you can handle it!" or something like that, referring the green mist that was Hulk power or blood or something streaming into Absorbing Man. Of course Dad can't handle it but the Hulk can, because Dad is petty and craves power while the Hulk/Bruce ultimately has his inexhaustible, justifiable rage as his source of power and would nobly renounce his power if he could. Dad at last turns into the last element, air, in the form of a giant bloated cloud which is "unstable" by Absorbing Man's own dialogue, and he urges the Hulk to "Take it back, take it back!". The gamma bomb goes off when Absorbing Man is most vulnerable, killing him (and as far as the authorities were concerned, the Hulk also).

The whole epilogue about 'one year later' is just reassurance to the audience that the Hulk survived the "Gamma Bomb", and that sequels are on the way.

[keenduck]

Sorry, what I meant about the "one year later" scene was that it is one of the most blatent and amateurish setups for a sequel I've ever seen.

Like others have noted upthread (I think), the dialogue picks up again with Betty Ross and her father talking as though what happened was not a year ago, but yesterday. The Bruce Banner in central America scene wasn't bad, but I'd rather end it with the daughter/father scene, just to leave the audience wondering. I think the ending pretty much presumes a sequel, which is not all together certain.

Of course, if they had used such an ending, when a sequel would come out all the fanboys would moan and groan about how the first movie was a unit in and of itself and shouldn't be sullied by a sequel. (A la matrix.) :lol:

[Occhidiangela]

Then of course Dad #2 goes and blows the living crap out of him with a nuke, as they so often do in Hollywood scripts

Yep, a Large Fuel Air Explosive munition would be a simpler and quite effective weapon to get rid of a huge gas bag. Using nukes? Uh, not bloody likely, but then, Hollywood likes to prey on the primal fear of nuclear weapons wherever possible, like in the movie "The Peacemaker."

Also, the fact that tactical nukes were removed from the inventory in 1991 seems to get overlooked, but then, this is Hollywood, as you so rightly point out, and when you consider what they do with 'history' it is no surprise what they do with 'future' and 'present.'