Should the Lounge have a Waiting Period?

[gekko]

I mentioned this in the thread about the etiquette link, but wanted to "formally" discuss it in it's own place. Personally, I think having a period of say 3 days between registering on the forums and being able to post would be beneficial. While it would not guarantee that new users would properly lurk before posting, it would probably help. Anyone with real interest in the forums would almost certainly spend his or her waiting period reading other posts, which is exactly what we constantly seem to be telling new users to do anyways.

Just a thought.

gekko

[dabea93]

Hail Gekko,

I posted shortly after registration, but read for many months prior.

Does this exclude me?

[Brista]

It seems quite sensible to me. I also read for a long time before I posted but I can't imagine many new people having something so burningly urgent that they couldn't wait a couple of days - I know I didn't ;)

[Wiccan]

Hmmm,

Let me be the first to say that you are touching off a tinderbox subject and may be flogged and quarted on the table, just like in the diablo2: lord of distruction, you do remember the rooms when you go into the monastery spy the tables that show someone has been disemboweled?

Some people do have problems that supersede the rules and yet they do try to follow them till they don't give a damn because he/she can't become perfect speller or don't have the mental compacity to remember there learnings.

Just one thing gekko,

You do remember the crusades right.....?

I think they should at least have the common sense to at least know the subjects, and if they still wish get on there little soapbox to have a voice on the subjects then let them, but is called the lurkerlounge... not the wait three days till you feel you can take the flames o ' little one lounge

editors note:grammar&spelling checked with Grammar slammer deluxe and it did the corrections so anyone daring to tell me that this is wrong or that has to be fixed then tell the programmer's makers not me !

finally no edits :ph34r: DAMN IT ALL! added a space between 2 words and added somthings

[dahak_i]

Greetings,

I don't believe that this will be as touchy a subject as you think, Wiccan. I understand your point about problems that result in exceptions to rules.

But they are exactly that : exceptions.

The flaming you experienced was quite extensive, if I can say so without stirring any animosity up. But once you explained your situation, an understanding was reached. I've since seen an admin leap to your defense, if I recall correctly.

I hate to sound harsh, but anyone with a serious enough condition (ie, not just having poor english due to not knowing the language) will most likely be flamed unless they explain themselves in advance. Hopefully everyone comes out on decent terms, but that isn't always going to be the case. The LL is very protective of its high standards, and defends them well.

In that spirit, I do support a waiting period. When I started typing this paragraph, I wanted to argue for a 24 hour waiting period instead... but in thinking out my arguements, the 3 day option won <_< . Sounds like the perfect amount of time, actually.

I would further suggest, if it doesn't already exist, a page before the sign up providing links to the forum rules, elric's guide, etc, encouraging people to read them before registering.

People that don't want to bother with reading them or dealing with the waiting period probably wouldn't be very well received here anyway :blink: .

[gekko]

dabea93: "I posted shortly after registration, but read for many months prior."

To be blunt, you would still have the waiting list, and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

It's a shame to have to inconvenience people, particularly people such as yourself who do lurk for some time before they post. However, a 3 day wait wouldn't actually affect you (assuming you took the time to read the rules and etiquette :P) since you would have ample time to register long before you decided to post.

Quite simply, we get quite a few people here who do not lurk for months beforehand. And the result is many new posters who simply have no idea about the way things work here. While a waiting period, as I said before, wouldn't FORCE these new posters to read the rules and etiquette, nor lurk properly, it would certainly help. Anyone who is truly interested in the forums would at the very least spend time reading other posts.

Wiccan: while I understand that some may disagree with the waiting period, I seriously doubt it will be as big a problem as you seem to think. Anyone who can't take a 3 day waiting period, as dahak already mentioned, probably isn't really welcome here anyways.

We need to be clear about the fact that we are a somewhat exlcusive forum. While it'd be wonderful to have everyone in the world posting here, in truth most of the "established" lurkers (and this includes people such as dabea93, who lurk before registering) don't want the majority of the D2 players posting here. In some ways, I wish the forums were an "invite-only." However, if that were the case many, many posters (myself included) would not be here. I don't think we need to be that exclusive. A waiting period would serve much like the waiting period on guns -- force the poster to cool down and think about things before typing up a nonsensical blurb that we all then have to force ourselves through.

One final thing: while the admins here take a fairly back seat approach (allowing us, the posters, to moderate ourselves, which works wonderfully for the most part) the 3 day waiting period would also arm the admins for dealing with anyone who does become a serious problem. Currently, banning or freezing an account would really accomplish nothing -- anyone intent on being a nuissance could simply register a new account. With a waiting period, they'd be put on ice for at least 72 hours. While this kind of measure is rarely (if ever) going to be neccessary here at the Lounge, it'd be nice to know we have that power if we need it.

gekko

[ShadowHM]

It seems quite sensible to me. I also read for a long time before I posted but I can't imagine many new people having something so burningly urgent that they couldn't wait a couple of days - I know I didn't ;)

I too Lurked for a long time before my first post.

In general, I also agree that there is very little that is so burningly urgent that a response has to be made right away. Very often, while I mull over what to post, the issue is already addressed by someone else in more detail and with more accuracy than I could have provided anyway. :rolleyes: And when it is a matter of opinion, as opposed to fact, there is no hurry whatsoever to providing it.

As to dabea93's question: If you Lurked for months before posting, what real cost could there be for a further three days of waiting?

[Bolty]

Gentlemen, it's a great topic for discussion, but unfortunately the forum software does not support this! If, in future releases, this option becomes available, I'll bring it up and we can have a good debate over it.

-Bolty

[Baajikiil]

I think having a period of say 3 days between registering on the forums and being able to post would be beneficial.

I think a waiting period *can* be a good idea. The proposed 3 day period sounds like a good idea to me. Just be sure not to go too far overboard.

I'm a member of another forum that has a similiar system:
New members are only allowed 1 reply a day, and are not allowed to start topics. After the member has accumulated 25 total replys, they are allowed unlimited replys per day. They are only allowed to start topics when *given* permission by the mods. Once permission is given, they can start topics anytime.

While this particular forum has an amazing lack of trolls, it also has nearly zero influx of new members. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with such stringent restrictions. It is still a good forum, but rather stale. Complex discusions are not possible for newcomers, due to the inability to keep up with the posting. A happy medium seems hard to discover.

If some time in the future, waiting periods are possible, a 3-5 day period seems like a very good idea. As mentioned, if you can't be bothered to lurk for a few days, why bother posting?

EDIT: got a typo

[gekko]

Thanks bolty, that was the other reason I posted: I was wondering if it was techinically even possible.

Something to consider in the future, for sure.

gekko

[gekko]

Suddenly, I need a better answer than that. Is it not possible to require new members to be activated by an admin?

I understand that adds work to the admins. However, I'm begining to think more and more that it's something that needs to be done. We've been getting a wave recently of new "members" who, frankly, none of us want here.

I'm sure many would volunteer their time to be in charge of activating new registrations. You can put me at the top of the list.

Maybe I'm wrong to put such importance on this, however, every day I believe more than ever it's an important move to make.

gekko

[Raz]

The troll that just posted in The Armory posing as Nicodemus Phaulkon (instead of an "o" he had an "a" and he posted some... disturbing... pictures) has just ruined a lot of threads... and I´m willing to guess who he was...

[Tydon]

I never even knew of this site until the diabloii.net forums went haywire. I got bored not posting there, and searched for new forums. I found these, registered, and began posting. Had there been a 3 day waiting period, I would not have registered here, and probably went to the amazon basin instead. I choose here just cause it looked like a more informal place. So I think that the 3 day waiting period is a bad idea.

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

...that just solidifies the example, I'm afraid.

This isn't directed personally at you, in the least, Tydon. You seem a nice chap, thus far. But your own admission has struck to the very heart of the matter. No one bothers to stop and understand the rules' whys and wherefores. When the regulars attempt to "educate", it may go well... but it most often is met with defiance and even hostility.

The result is the debacle that we had here this evening.

I have tremendous respect for each of our Admins. Their job is thankless, time consuming and generally sucks. I'm uncertain as to what options may be considered for control of the door, or if we want such controls. As it has been mentioned before: This forum tends to patrol itself to a degree of success. On the other hand, it's not foolproof.

And God knows we've had our share of fools of late. Shall we blame the incapacitation of dii.net for the deluge?

[ShadowHM]

Hello Tydon,

Many Lurkers are also members of the Amazon Basin; there is a lot of cross-pollinization. I post there occasionally too, especially when I am looking for advice on some of my more oddball notions. There is always someone there who has beat me to the idea and explored it in detail. :)

[TheDragoon]

Shall we blame the incapacitation of dii.net for the deluge?

I say, "nay." Rather, when in doubt, blame the trout (and the Elric who wields it)! ;)

[gekko]

[...] struck to the very heart of the matter.&nbsp; No one bothers to stop and understand the rules' whys and wherefores.&nbsp; When the regulars attempt to "educate", it may go well... but it most often is met with defiance and even hostility.

This has been building for quite some time, as well. It seems that every other thread becomes, if not begins as, a few of the regulars blasting some poor schmuck who discovered these forums, registered and posted his first 18 polls all in a 90 second window.

Let's face it: we're essentially a "snooty" forum. We expect a fairly high degree of class here, and when we don't get it, we get unhappy. Currently, we're like a snooty golf course that lets anyone in, and then tries to chase out the bums after they sleep on the greens.

I'd also like to echo Nico's thoughts on the admins: I have the highest respect for the job they all do, and I understand that often the forums can be left to moderate themselves. However, we are no longer the little-known forum we once were. There are alot of new viewers, new posters. It simply may not be enough to flame the scum -- we have to put up a fence.

gekko

[Dozer]

Look at Griswold's SHop. Look at the Pinned Locked thread at the top. We just need one of those in every forum! :D

[kandrathe]

It seems that every other thread becomes, if not begins as, a few of the regulars blasting some poor schmuck who discovered these forums, registered and posted his first 18 polls all in a 90 second window.

Synonymous with someone walking in to a room full of strangers, unzipping his fly, and peeing on the lot of us. The problem is that the new poor schmuck has no idea where to post his "quips", how to organize his thoughts into sentences, or how to use a grammar or spell checker.

Let's face it: we're essentially a "snooty" forum. We expect a fairly high degree of class here, and when we don't get it, we get unhappy. Currently, we're like a snooty golf course that lets anyone in, and then tries to chase out the bums after they sleep on the greens.

I don't think so. I think we expect people to engage in verbal intercourse in a sensible manner, rather than to be date raped by a thoughtless interloper. Those that are flamed are not merely loitering, they are polluting the environment. They don't care.

If the bums take a shower, hence, decide to post thoughtful and well-constructed sentences, then I'm going to read them.

[Wiccan]

"Pint of ale can soothe even the most hardened fighters"

But yet i to did wait a couples of months till i felt i could stand the flames, if there was away to make it 3days before you can post on a subjects that were asking for opinions of the older members.....

Then i would have to agree whole heartedly on this idea, just as long we dont start flaming people again on grammar.{ yea right like that would ever happen, i been known to be grump and correct people and flame along with the rest of you!} and context, if i can make due and seek help from program then they can understand the rules to.