1.10 Beta Bugs

[Crystalion]

And last, but not least - then I tried to upgrade rare Wirt's Leg (forgot formula, sorry), I received rare hand axe.

As I've reported here earlier, many cube recipes are flaky. One I didn't mention that follows from special base item and uniques being permitted in general transforms is that the Savage Polearm recipe can eat your Staff of Kings.

On another front, I promised to mention this bug (which might be longstanding, but now that v1.10 has cross-class skill granting by item is now a big boo-boo)...

v1.10s, single player and LAN tcp-ip tested:
a skill granted by an item that is selected as the left/right mouse action will "go away" if you remove that item in that the action icon changes to normal attack. However, if you had a general +skills level the back end engine still thinks that action button is assigned to the granted skill at a non-zero level (even though the frontend thinks it is normal attack).

Therefore, leaving the action button as is, subsequent to removing the item, still causes a front end attempt to do "normal attack" to cause a back end use of the skill in question. This is true even past weapon switch or death (i.e. this is *not* just a case of the general item effect add-up bug reported many times, afaik).

While pre-v1.10 this would be just a minor curiousity and advantage to the player, as of v1.10 this is a huge potential exploit... for example, an Assassin could grant themselves the Whirlwind skill without having to use the runeworded claw to WW with (instead using an elite polearm, etc.). Another example: a party of exploiters could "pass the roach", giving each player some special skill from an uber item even though none of them was still using/equiping it.

I tested this with varioius skills, including a character as low as clvl 16 with the starting +1 summon skelie rod and a sigon's shield and a higher level character with the Passion runeword (e.g. Zeal).

edit: to be clear, the frontend limits the use of "normal attack" in what/when it will tell the backend to perform an action--thus the +1 Raise Skeleton example does not allow you to raise new skeletons via "normal attack" (since corpses are not valid targets) but it does allow you to keep your existing skelie even though, after removing the wand, you no longer know the skill.

[Pren]

I love you, Crystalion.

I discovered this bug/a similar a couple of months ago with druid pets (equip +3 dire wolf helm, +2 summons necklace, skins of the vipermagi, shaman's club, with 0 points in dire wolf, remove the +skills and the pets remain.), but didn't have the means or the thought to test other +skills in that manner. Carrying a set of swap gear to give you lvl20 pets in 1.10 is futile, with the near negative lifespan of nonvalk minions, so I didn't see any real application beyond normal difficulty.

Frightening.

[Raziel]

v1.10s, single player and LAN tcp-ip tested:
a skill granted by an item that is selected as the left/right mouse action will "go away" if you remove that item in that the action icon changes to normal attack. However, if you had a general +skills level the back end engine still thinks that action button is assigned to the granted skill at a non-zero level (even though the frontend thinks it is normal attack).

I tried to test this and couldn't figure it out. I think i've missed part of it though.. let me see if I get this right:

Does the skill granted by an item have to be +to that skill, or can it be charges of a skill? Example: a wand with charges of lower resist. Does it qualify?

Does the "general +skills level" you're talking about have to boost the skill you're recieving? Example: Sorcerss, wielding "Passion" wearing +1 Sorcerss skills amulet.. does this qualify for triggering the bug, or does she need to be wearing a +1 to ALL skills amulet?

[Crystalion]

I tried to test this and couldn't figure it out.  I think i've missed part of it though.. let me see if I get this right:

Does the skill granted by an item have to be +to that skill, or can it be charges of a skill?

Does the "general +skills level" you're talking about have to boost the skill you're recieving?

Granted = +specific_skill that you otherwise don't know (this also answers the "charges" question--i.e.: no).

Another item (charm, ?Battle Command?, etc.) must grant at least another +1 non-specifically to the skill in question (this would probably include any appropriate +all, +tree, +class).

When the item that "granted" the skill is removed, the FE (frontend aka "lying display screen" ™) "correctly" goes "aha! this character doesn't 'know' this skill anymore, let's change the action button icon that had it selected to 'normal attack'". However the BE (backend, ala host game engine) incorrectly leaves that action button assigned to the skill--because it thinks, due to the general +skill, that the specific skill has not gone to a zero skill level.

So, when the FE tells the BE that the player has activated "normal attack" on the action button in question, the BE thinks it is being told to perform the skill and thinks it is legal to do so.

To test this, just as a simple example, grab a Sigon's shield (+1 all skills, clvl req 6) from one of your warehouses or characters and give it to a new Paladin. Level the new Paly up until they can equip the shield (high STR req). Do not put any skill points into Smite. Get some money. Shop for a Scepter with +1 (or more) to Smite. Equip the scepter, equip the shield, set right mouse action to be Smite. Test that it works. Now remove the scepter. The right action button will now show "normal attack". Find a monster that has more than just a few HPs. Use the right action button to "normal attack" them and observe that though the animation looks like normal attack, your mana is being depleted and the monster is being smited (obvious knockback and stun stars effects).

[MongoJerry]

Wow! Great catch, Crystalion! Have you reported this on Blizzard's official patch bug site? They seem to have this legaleese thing that prevents them from taking ideas or I think even bug fix ideas off of non-Blizzard sites.

[Raziel]

Hm.. well, thanks Crystallion. I'm still confused as to how big a threat this could be - it seems like more trouble than it's worth to abuse, and still uses mana anyway.

*confused*

The cross-class skills are the most dangerous, I suppose. Hmm, hang on, here's an application:

"Passion" + "Crescent Moon" = free zeal for any char + "Crescent Moon" = potentially bad.

Two questions:

1) Does it work if you re-equip a different weapon, or is the bug eliminated?

2) If it's a spell - such as Hydra - does this allow a character to get around the spell timer? Oh my. Imagine Trang's firewall/meteor, spammed. Or Hydras from that shield runeword.

Fortunately, you said that if you change the button to something else the bug is eliminated - so there's no chance of equipping trangs, unequipping it, and switching to Zeal.

[MightyMOJO]

Strangely enough I just stumbled across this bug last night (I'll just add my 2 cents here). I'm playing a Paladin and I picked up a scepter with +3 to holy shock. I've been using a rare pally shield that adds 1 to offence auras and I noticed that when I had hs activated (and I have no points added to hs) and I replaced the scepter with the sword I had been using I still had the holy shock aura. I wondered if that shield had something to do with it. I posted my story on the 1.10 beta bug forum on b.net but everyone totally ignored it. Oh well, I tried. At least after reading this post I know I'm not TOTALLY insane... I think...

[Crystalion]

I've been using a rare pally shield that adds 1 to offence auras and I noticed that when I had hs activated (and I have no points added to hs) and I replaced the scepter with the sword I had been using I still had the holy shock aura.

Yep. It isn't really a serious bug until you add in the v1.10 uber skills and start swapping items around. There are also bugs (iirc longstanding) that enable you to confuse the frontend into showing a skill on an action button that isn't real (because the backend has a different idea). You can, for example, confuse the frontend into showing you singing an aura (sorry, EQ bardspeak, but I like the metaphor: aura = aria) when, in fact, you aren't. This is most easily accomplished by fooling with some of the weird behavior of weapon switches (and also corpse looting).

Craziel wrote:

1) Does it work if you re-equip a different weapon, or is the bug eliminated?

Yes. That's the point in saying that neither weapon switches or death defeats the exploit.
Craziel wrote:

does this allow a character to get around the spell timer?

AFAIK spell recast timers are done globally, so there wouldn't be any impact on them with this exploit.
Craziel wrote:

it seems like more trouble than it's worth to abuse

Well, you're going in the right direction, thinking of Zeal. Since there are a lot of powerful cross-class skills granted by uber items and those uber items will be very very rare in the new economy and some of them are balanced assuming you must be still using the granting item, you get some interesting abuse possible. For example, a Passion *bow* can be used to grant Zeal (for your favorite melee weapon), so you can give the bow back to your Rogue hireling after you've exploited to give yourself Zeal. Later you could grab it back again for a moment to acquire Berserk, for that Physically immune monster you want to kill.

In short, although it's a fun "feature" it really is a bug, and should be stomped for v1.10 release.

p.s. no, I didn't report this on the Blizz forums, as that is a hassle and Bolty assures us we get lurked here anyway. :blink:

[Bolty]

p.s. no, I didn't report this on the Blizz forums, as that is a hassle and Bolty assures us we get lurked here anyway.  :blink:

I consider this one pretty serious, too, so I brought it to the attention of the "authorities" directly.

-Bolty

[whyBish]

Is it just coincidence that G.F. states that the condensed list for 1.10 is 8 pages, and this thread is 8 pages? :P

[Thecla]

Actually, he says the condensed list is 12 pages ;)

http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?F...t=56#post121273

Speaking of which -- what is this condensed list nonsense anyway? It has always driven me nuts that Bliz produces "condensed lists" of patch changes. These lists often seem to include a lot of truly obscure bug-fixes while missing out many changes that have a massive effect on gameplay. I hope they'll also make an "expanded list" available for 1.10 that includes every change they can think of (completeness is too much to ask).





























Nah, I don't expect they will either. :)

[Guest]

(completeness is too much to ask)

if you tried out software developing you'd notice pretty fast that it's impossible to keep track of every single thing you change.

it might be easy in the beginning of development if you add things in a certain order(skills first, then anims, then sounds, etc) but when you're doing bug fixes you're changing things here and there, and the next hour you change around the fixes since they didn't work, or the new fixes introduced another bug so you have to go another way. actually, i'd assume it's that way all the time unless you're making a very primitive game.

it's just impossible, unless you want to spend 50%+ of your time on documention.

[aurikan]

Actually with decent source control systems and good development policy, you can get developers to give reasonable check-in messages. Then, to get a complete changelist, all you need to do is concatenate the check-in messages.

However, from what I have seen, I don't think Blizzard has a very good source control system in force. If they did, we wouldn't see bugs regress (such as the breaking of the CTC items back in 2001), or accidental changes, (such as the enabling of piercing on GA)

[Guest]

hmm, i guess you're right. i'd love to know of a game company which does this though(and the 100 pages for every new version)


a bug that's been in the game since .0, penetrate has this in the skills bonus description: add % to hit with missiles base, add % to hit with missiles/level, and the item types that it should work for is spears/javelins/bows, the same goes for critical strike.

kind of makes you wonder why zons can use non-jav/spears/bows at all.

[GentlemanLoser]

Hi Guys!

Crystalion, other than what skills you can actively use (What others are prohibited? BO? Or can you shift NA it?) how does the front end normal attack effect skill use? For your smite example above, what speed breakpoints would be used, NAs or Smites (if they differ!)?

I wonder if you can do silly things with this like swap the shield out with smite and use a big 2 hander for bettter smite range... ;) If not, you could always use it to swap out the +smite scepter for a 'Black' Flail!

[Walkiry]

*Imagines a Tankazon with Zeal and an obscenely-high-damaging weapon*

Um... how very interesting ^_^

[Thecla]

if you tried out software developing you'd notice pretty fast that it's impossible to keep track of every single thing you change.

Well, actually, when I said that "completeness is to much to ask", I really meant it, and (for once) I wasn't being facetious -- it would be impossible to give a complete list of changes. But it's not too much to ask that they release a full list of the changes they do have documented.

[lfd]

Especially when the kind of things that they miss out of their patch change summaries are absolutely huge obvious things, and the bits that they include are terribly obscure and ambiguously phrased.

E.g. from the abridged 1.10s patch.txt:

"Necromancer skills: Dim Vision, Iron Maiden, Terror, Life Tap and Attract all work now.". Well, that's handy to know.
"Stamina shrine now works properly.". It was working improperly before? how?
"Hephast(sic) the Armorer now looks and functions like a unique monster.". Doesn't look any different to me.

I haven't been able to find anywhere any mention of the fact that:
Bremm Sparkfist is now Lightning Enchanted again, as he was pre-expansion
The Multiple Shots/Lightning Enchanted buggy interaction has (finally) been fixed
Superuniques with 'Aura Enchanted' as a base modifier no longer have fixed auras (or is this a bug? I assumed they were trying to put Bremm back to Blessed Aim/Lightning, and the change to De Seis's minions would make more sense if he had a fixed fanaticism aura, and Hephasto has been nerfed _even more_ if he doesn't even have Conviction guaranteed...)

They definitely get a Could Do Better mark for their patch.txt contents.

[Guest]

In regards to the mastery critical bugs before: this might of not been a bug(heavy speculation, excuse me).

At least not for those barbs which use Concentrate: this skill actually has a critical strike graphic on every successfull hit(check srvoverlay).

I wonder though if Blizz didn't want to make the overlay graphic be on the character(and it being a unique one, as well), to show that he's got increased defence. Would make more sense...


In regards to the topic above: my speculation is that the developer(s) just give GF a very cryptic list*, which he then has to decipher the best he can, which usually isn't done too well. (But since we haven't seen the original explanationst, who are we to complain? (If we were, that is, blaming him) )


*
Cube. If upg uni == then re-roll stats(base) Very logical.
Drain is reduced below 100. Drain = in-game term for leech, he most likely didn't understand anything of that sentence.
Fixed Dim Vision, Iron Maiden, Terror, Life Tap, Attract. What is he supposed to figure out from that?

And this is, of course, just speculation; he could just be a complete bone head.

[Ruvanal]

In regards to the topic above: my speculation is that the developer(s) just give GF a very cryptic list*, which he then has to decipher the best he can, which usually isn't done too well. (But since we haven't seen the original explanationst, who are we to complain? (If we were, that is, blaming him) )


And this is, of course, just speculation; he could just be a complete bone head.

GF frequently just uses the MPQ data files for starting the building of the pages. But he does not even know 1/10 of what you do in terms of being able to read what one of the files is really being used for. Nor does he apparently go to a site like Phrozen Keep to check on what they have listed for the fileguides. As such the real answer is ...

And this is, of course, just speculation; he could just be a complete bone head.