New Runewords on AT

[Kevin]

Tirs are easy to mute, and I still get a lot of el's and eld's....

[Dagni]

I haven't gotten three of any rune yet. On the other hand, I've been rushing through areas extremely fast, anyone doing full clears would probably have plenty of all the first few runes.

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Yes this is definitely the "bang for the buck" runeword. I like it because it evens out the runeword progression. Think about. You start at stuff like "steel", proceed to "kings grace" and then "honor".....and then there's this huge gap until you manage to scrape up the runes for something like "silence" or "fury", by which time you probably have a cruel elite rendering them pointless.

I'll have to disagree with you, there. You're seeing fit to place Crescent Moon somewhere in-between the existing runewords for power and applicability. I'm saying that this one runeword, with cheap runes, shall be the weapon that defeats the game.

PvM, I would take this weapon over a Breath of the Dying. PvP, it's debateable.

[IlleglWpns]

I place the runeword with the old "uber" runewords (silence and fury) and behind the new "uber" runewords. It all depends on how effective the 20% chance of casting static field per strike is in 1.1.

[Wrathraven]

Yea, for the runes Cresent Moon MIGHT be a bit much (Um isn't THAT tough to get, especially with the inevitabler Countess runs that will soon take place), but hey, it works in Polearms so I'm happy :)


I kinda wish they'd added a few more low/mid level runewords though, as nearly everything minus Cresent Moon and Passion takes uber-rare runes to create. And some more wand/staff words would be nice as well

[Thecla]

That's what I find funny so far - you hear "The monsters are way too powerful and hard to kill" on one end, and "these new items are sickly overpowered, WTF" on the other. I don't know myself if there's a middle ground, but things have to be seriously tested out first.

I'm not rushing to judgment either, and I've only been in normal difficulty of 1.10 so far (which has been good), but this dichotomy worries me. It seems like Bliz is repeating the LoD fiasco. I use only items that I find myself, with a very few exceptions, and despite playing D2 since it started, I haven't seen many of the standard "mid-level" items, let alone all but a few of the "high-end" ones that are common as dirt on b.net. Has Bliz balanced hell to be really hard, but not impossible, for characters stuffed to the gills with duped "legit" (or, for the few dedicated players, non-duped really legit) high-end gear, and a bit easier for those who have apparently-almost-impossible-to-obtain-in-any-legit-fashion-sickly-overpowered-wtf-items? I don't know yet, but if so it looks bad.

[whyBish]

Costs

Below is a table of costs of runewords in Fal runes. (Since Fal is the highest rune I got more than two of on BNet)

As you can see the only runewords on that list that I would have a chance of finding would be passion, crescent moon, or at a stretch delirium/call to arms. Note, this assumese the three runes cube formula on A.S., not the 2 rune formula for high end (in the current beta MPQ?)


Fury
532170
Silence
2430
Smoke
0
Beast
177255
Bramble
65610
Breath of the Dying
4785156
Call To Arms
324
Chaos
6589
Chains of Honor
177417
Crescent Moon
27
Delirium
246
Doom
1620594
Enigma
708588
Eternity
236439
Famine
538003
Hand of Justice
1673055
Heart of the Oak
2196
Kingslayer
838
Passion
3

[Swarmalicious]

...I keep trying to picture what trading will be like. Since it seems like everyone will want these runes, does it make sense that a "real" trading environment could have a seed here?

I for one welcome seeing Iceblinks traded for shaels, or what have you, instead of nauseating "chippies" for everything.

With so much variety on the board, I'd like to think this'd be the death of the soj/chipped standard - at least for a week or two - ideally no one knows whats 'it' yet, so won't trading have to be based on the individual's value of whats in the trade window?

[Walkiry]

Honestly, why is everyone losing their heads over the new runewords? Have you actually SEEN the runes you're going to NEED? In my whole LOD career I've found ONE Um rune, the rest have all been below Lum. And even then I can count them with one hand. With fingers to spare. I mean, take a look:

Beast Ber + Tir + Um + Mal + Lum

This is misspelled, it shoul read "breasts", as in what you have to give to one of the Battle.net admins to make him give you the necessary runes.

Bramble Ral + Ohm + Sur + Eth

Another misspelling, it should read "gamble", as in the chances of getting this via gambling are about the same as the chances of finding the runes in one lifetime.

Breath of the Dying Vex + Hel + El + Eld + Zod + Eth

Note the plural. Only after a team of trained teenagers give their last breath in this world, playing night after night in the realms, you'll be able to build this runeword.

Call To Arms Amn + Ral + Mal + Ist

By the time you've got this, WW III will have started and you'll have to go and duke it out in the trenches.

Chaos Fal + Ohm + Um

An accurate description of the whole patch status.

Chains of Honor Dol + Um + Ber + Ist

This refers to the chains your ghost will be carrying when you visit the only one of your descendants that managed to complete the armour.

Crescent Moon Shael + Um + Tir

More like "Blue Moon" if you ask me.

Delirium Lem + Ist + Io
The state at which the game designers were when doing this list after a night of heavy drinking, so much that in fact you'll have 1% of casting a skill that doesn't exist.

Doom Hel + Ohm + Um + Lo + Cham

What you should be playing instead of looking for runes.

Enigma Jah + Ith + Ber

As in "who the smeg will ever be able to complete this?".

Eternity Amn + Ber + Ist + Sol + Sur

'Nuff said.

Exile Vex + Ohm + Ist + Dol

Where you'll be after losing your job, family and friends locked in your basement playing Realms.

Famine Fal + Ohm + Ort + Jah

You'll have to skip all your meals if this one is in your plans for the ladder.

Gloom Fal + Um + Pul

Your state after years of fruitless search.

Hand of Justice Sur + Cham + Amn + Lo

What should smack down certain individuals from Blizzard Entertainment.

Heart of the Oak Ko + Vex + Pul + Thul

A nice twist from "Heart of Stone", what the designers are made of.

Kingslayer Mal + Um + Gul + Fal

Yup, you'll find this one when you find Elvis and finally finish him off.

Passion Dol + Ort + Eld + Lem

The only Runeword you won't hate with, since it's about the only one that can be found in less than a year.

Sanctuary Ko + Ko + Mal

What the programmer will have to ask for in some foreign country when the patch hits the realms.

Stone Shael + Um + Pul + Lum

To throw at their heads when you see them.

[Occhidiangela]

:lol:

You hit the nail on the head.

As you point out, one will have to spend most waking moments playing, and then converting Runes, to get one or more of these rune words, though I will admit that i ended up with about a dozen Io runes on East when all was said and done. I think I still have them on a mule somewhere.

Can you say that "Runes will be the new economy?" I thought you could!

[--Pete]

Hi,

Have you actually SEEN the runes you're going to NEED? In my whole LOD career I've found ONE Um rune, the rest have all been below Lum.

Yeah. But now you can roll your own: http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/cube.shtml

So it will take a *lot* of runes , but it no longer means a few impossible finds.

--Pete

[TabithaWolf]

That's what I find funny so far - you hear "The monsters are way too powerful and hard to kill" on one end, and "these new items are sickly overpowered, WTF" on the other.  I don't know myself if there's a middle ground, but things have to be seriously tested out first.

-Bolty

Making the numbers bigger isn't making the game any more balanced, though.
The game should not be balanced around the best possible ultra uber gear.

The only advantage to these sweet runewords is that it promotes *some* diversity in equipment, rather than seeing everyone use the same unique (instead you'll see everyone use the same runewords <_<).

[Lane]

The only advantage to these sweet runewords is that it promotes *some* diversity in equipment, rather than seeing everyone use the same unique (instead you'll see everyone use the same runewords <_<).

I wish runewords gave color! When I read the rumors about increased quest rewards I had hoped (apparently in vain) for an equipment dying reward of some sort.

More equipment diversity will be nice though so classes don't look like clones.

I do wish Grand Matron bows would get 6 sockets. :(

[Guest]

Why shouldnt it be balanced around great gear(at the high end)?

It seems reasonable to me that anyone can get through normal and nightmare, and then when they get to hell they need to work with a group, unless they have awesome gear.

[IlleglWpns]

Because it screws over people who play single player.

[Kevin]

My answer to that is the same as it has always been.

Oh well.

The game is designed as multiplayer. It's still better than the original Diablo where without tricks single player only had one difficulty to it.

The only part of the game that should be balanced for single player is normal difficulty. Blizzard should come out and just say that. If you are good enough or lucky enough you can play NM and Hell, but the only portion of the game intended for single player is Hell.

Blizzard said from the release of the game (and several times since then) that Hell is supposed to be party only. So from the start the design intent seems that normal can be done by just about anyone, playing anything. Nightmare is for good single player players, to give them some challenge, and Hell is the challenge for party players, or for those single player players who like to try and take on the impossible. Heck even the rarity of some items (if you take away duping) is designed for large numbers of players and trading.

As other have pointed out, games like Doom have difficulty levels that you just can't really beat but they are there. Why should D2 be any different? I don't care if it is slightly different style of game. It seems pretty clear that Blizzard didn't intend to make the game for people to play single player in Hell. They screwed up several times. With single player you always have the option of early patch versions and mods to adjust that stuff. Blizzard really shouldn't worry about single player at all except for normal in my opinion.

[Occhidiangela]

They may have hyped Diablo II Hell as "impossible" but when DaShiv got through in SP with a level 38 (IIRC) barbarian, it was obvious that they made Baron and King achievable for the entire audience.

Hell at "Players 1" should be achievable if:

You plan your character well.
You get decent to very good gear.
You have some skill.

Hell Hardcore Players 1? Maybe "imposible" for some.

Hell Players 8? Make it impossible. <== That is supposed to take a party. :) Now, if AI got tougher and smarter with added players, in both multi and single, wouldn't that be the sort of difficulty change we'd all like to see?

[whereagles]

Well, it's true, the game is balanced to multi-player.

Playing single player you can't rely on getting anything higher than *Amn*. Occasionally you'll get something like a Pul or Lum, but without a bucketload of area replays that's far from guaranteed. I've once had to do 100 countess runs to get a FRIGGIN' SOL to finish my 'honor' thresher.

In any case, comparing the new runewords with the possibilities for crafts, rares and some uniques, we see only Breath of the Dying is really overpowered, but that's because you can do it in an ethereal item.

The weapon system is broken from the start. Melee/missile damage should come from *skills*, not from weapons.

[Salem]

I play mostly single player, only multiplayer is LAN... and this is about right.

Any decent player can get through Normal, even with bad equipment or a bad build.
Nightmare requires some intelligence (and luck) both in item choice and in skill/stat point use.
Hell, well, the last couple Acts anyway, is where the better characters can solo. Hell on players 8 is the land only the well designed, well equiped characters can survive, at least soloing.

It is too bad that Blizzard has left (up to 1.10 at least) no realistic method for single player gamers to ever see most of the sets/uniques/runewords. Not everyone has a good enough connection to play on Bnet, and even of those, many are completely sick of the dupes, hacks, and PKers that make Bnet the, um, less the pefect :angry: system that it has become.

These new rune words may 'break' realms... but I have my doubts. For the non-BNet-ers though, it really doesn't matter. They'll likely never seem 'em anyway.

[Kevin]

I agree they failed. But it was a stated design goal.

I also agree that there are ways that it could be made so that single player and multi can co-exist with each other for all difficulties. You offer some very good suggestions. However, I don't think at this stage any of that is going to happen. I don't see too many options for way things currently are to have Hell be a good balance for multi and single. In that case, I think that Blizzard should forget about single player.

I know it screws a lot of people over, but I also think that percentage is much smaller than the multiplayer percentage. Vastly smaller actually. You can't please all the people all the time (well I don't think you can ever please all the people). So you have to make a decision as to who you are going to try and please in order to be able to make progress on it.

So, I put forth my opinion on it. Many will disagree with it, as has already been shown.

I honeslty would like to see many many more changes with a lot more scaling, to make all 3 possible. But I also don't think Blizzard is obligated to, and depending on how many man hours it would require to do so, I don't think with the limited data I have that it would make economic sense either.

There are too many fundamental design decisions that make that balance idea too hard to pull off, and most of those decisions point to making the game multi, not single.

Of course I don't think 1.10 has killed single player for hell yet. I don't think there is enough playtime data out there to say that yet. So, this is all academic anyway.