Why the experience nerf

[Brista]

It seems a shame that one can't lock out specific grief players - like Squelching them

Interesting to see how 1.10 works on the realms. People like Whereagles will, presumably, still be able to force people out of games but the more serious menace of character death, especially in hardcore may or may not have been successfully addressed

[whyBish]

Has anyone tested the hostile timer or PvP yet?

[whereagles]

LOL Occhi, relax dude. Don't be fundamentalist, it's just a game.

[--Pete]

Hi,

If it is "just a game" to you, then you're pretty damned stupid for wasting time on it, aren't you? After all, you're born, you'll die. All you have is the time between those two events. If you don't use that time to do what matters to you, be it serious or for fun, then you'd be better off dead.

--Pete

[Lane]

LOL Occhi, relax dude. Don't be fundamentalist, it's just a game.

This is the excuse I've seen given by every single PK I've ever encountered.

It may be "just a game," but people play games for fun and you're taking that pleasure away for your own little adrenaline rush, or whatever, which is selfish and inconsiderate and a lot of other things, but anyway...

Unless the person's causing you a problem, like trying to kill Diablo before your party can, I see no excuse for PKing.

[Occhidiangela]

"It is just a game."

Indeed, 'tis a game. Let's take a look at that.

A guy makes a Meph game, he and maybe a few friends want to have some fun by treasure hunting for Meph the Piñata. There are having fun, it is The Great Scavenger Hunt for the ever elusive Burrito Cheeseburger!

You show up, you found their game, possibly from the title.

You want to have some fun.

You TP down in to Durance after Hostiling them, and you get your kicks by fighting on the side of the monsters. Bully for you. Now, if they had invited you to do that, it is one thing, you are all having a laugh riot while Mephisto awaits the outcome, his very life hanging in the balance. "Will I die, or will I be saved by the dark hero!" Fun for everyone!

Guess what? Your presented scenario boils down to YOU get to have a few laughs, some fun, and a goodly portion of the players who you intrude on don't. Mind you, I suspect that some folks do rise to the challenge, and get a kick out of kicking your butt, or at least trying to. I won't gonna guess at the build disparities involved, but I have my suspicions.

For everyone who is simply forced into leaving the game, you have just had your fun at the expense of their fun.

Oh, I'm sorry, how is it that I missed that Multi Player is "all about you?"

[pakman]

Where did I put my bottle of Dead Jimmy Glue?

[--Pete]

Hi,

Where did I put my bottle of Dead Jimmy Glue?

Not applicable. Sure, most of the LL regs have heard all this crap before. But a newcomer hasn't.

Should a teacher not teach a subject this year because she taught it to a different group last year? After all, the teacher already covered the material and it is now boring.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

I'm sure that's what the arsonist thinks too, "Hey, relax man, it just a house". See you are imposing your lack of value on the game experiences of others. You lack empathy.


Joining up with the monster might be actually be a good idea. I think it should be a game option. You should be able to join the side of the monsters, they won't target you, you cannot open chests, etc. Then the incentive for the players is that if you die, they get to loot your corpse. Too bad Blizzard didn't build it in that way. I'd have alot more k3Wl G34r.

Until they do, you are just a low-life griefer, and cyber bully on the Battle.net playground. Jerks like you are why I keep a mule for PK gear for my lvl 92 burrito-zon. I prefer to play the game grief free, but occasionally I must go spank down some annoying little PKing maggot terd. You might now realize that the people here a pretty hardcore gamers, and to many you represent the epitome of evil in game terms.

[Occhidiangela]

1. Turd. :) not terd. Still smells the same, though.

2. Evil? I'd say something less than evil, more along the lines of a garden variety arsehole. One need not be evil to be an arsehole, just selfish.

[Archon_Wing]

Intrestingly, "it's just ..." probaly has been used before in almost any situation. The general idea of "If I don't care about it, it's ok." flies around in multiplayer games and in life.

"It's just a game" implies that people should not take it as seriously as certain things. But there's a problem with that- "it's just a game" does not mean someone can be an asshole. Just because they can blame people for being too serious does not make it right. It's just shifting the blame to somewhere else. And of course, reality never changes regardless of who we blame. This goes for the arsonist and so on.

The Pk is harassing people annoymously in a place of human interatction(as in this game) No doubt, they are mostly doing this because they are anoymous and they do not not know who they're killing. And yes, it is harassing people, since almost all pk's i've met spam "pwn joo noob" "my 352903582 dmg pwns" and 456 lines of "duel? duel?" when obviously they are uber twinked. Your standard dueler tends to leave after someone says no.

Of course, someone will say " There are thousands of people dying of starvation and you're concerned about this video game?"Trivilizing the problem makes it no less. Just because we produce tons of waste does not make littering all of a sudden ok.

As for joining the side of the monsters, I've heard this idea more than once, and that would add a new dimension to the game. :)

*Edited for clarity- errr... more clarity*

[Guest]

The ability to PK exsists by design.

Personally I always liked it when the playing the game the most effiecently and effectively I could, still involved random dangers like griefers.

As for "Save the Master", one of the most satisfying activities I knew of was to either get the "master" first or ambush the "savior".

I may be alone but I alwasys felt the game was the better for allowing the limted PKing it did.(maybe some day Ill make a PKer, Id probably enjoy that too,)

[kandrathe]

Ok, not evil in the real world, but in my game world they are worse than the demons, they are fallen players.

[Guest]

Role Playing game.

[kandrathe]

Yeah I agree.

Of course, someone will say " There are thousands of people dying of starvation and you're concerned about this video game?"

Most of us probably are capable of accomplishing much more in life than just playing the game. For instance, I work, support my family, participate in many civic responsibilities, and support many causes I believe in with money. My wife and I even correspond with and sponsor the costs of a handful of children in an orphanage in a remote part of Siberia. Reading the posts of many of the regulars on this board convinces me that these people are multidimensional and can be concerned about many things simultaneously.

But there's a problem with that- "it's just a game" does not mean someone can be an a$$hole.

But they can, and the only way I can influence them is to express just how I really feel about it. Maybe if Mr. Arsehole understands how others feel about his actions, he might grow up a little and care about something other than himself for a change. But, I won't make a silk purse from a sows ear either, will I?

[kandrathe]

You don't want to be on my "maggot turd" list. I'm an old school hacker*, and I'll have to stomp your guts out. :)

* I coded one of my first programs by setting toggle switches on a deadstart panel.

[Guest]

Real wolrd hacking because some one PKed you in a game.

[kandrathe]

Breaking the law is immoral, not all hacking is breaking the law. And, I didn't mean to imply that I would break the law, just that I would have to stomp your guts out, metaphorically of course. Big difference. :)

[Guest]

"Breaking the law is immoral, not all hacking is breaking the law. And, I didn't mean to imply that I would break the law, just that I would have to stomp your guts out, metaphorically of course. Big difference. "

The fact that breaking the law is immoral, and the possibility that not all hacking is is illegal- have nothing to do with anything else. Think about it :)

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

PKs and anti-PKs... never the twain shall meet. Each feels the other is wrong, and neither would ever consider the position proposed by the opposite.

PKing in an online Multiplayer game is virtual murder. It is done for reasons that only a PK can appreciate: that they find more amusement and fun in their virtual existence by targetting the avatar of someone, somewhere that really exists and disrupt their own virtual existence. It is the epitome of the underlying smallness in humanity given example in the virtual world of the internet. This is a parallel to bullying on the playground or vandalism on the street. It is done out of disrespect, lack of empathy... and a cry for attention. The problem is that both bullying and vandalism carry still penalties in Real Life... Player Killers just keep going.

Online combat is not a rarity. However, one cannot compare the actions of a Counter Strike player with those of a Diablo Player Killer. Counter Strike is, by its very nature, a combative game where the outcome is based solely on the ability for you to kill your opponents. Your opponents know this, and seek to kill you as well. The rules are set and the playing field agreed to upon your entry into the CS map.

Diablo, however, is not CounterStrike. Diablo is in essence a heroic fantasy, meaning that the players assume the roles of the heroes, seeking to bring about the downfall of the Antagonists, who are game generated opponents of coded strengths and weaknesses. When a group of players start a game of Diablo, they are entering a playing field where cooperation, not inter-conflict, is the rule and the set goal.

Now, if another player enters into this game and starts killing the previous players, s/he is not only ruining the game by pursuing his/her own personal jollies, he is in effect cheating... as he has altered the game to fit his rules without informing the existing players of this change. In fact, with the unilateral ability for a player to declare hostility within a preset "friendly" game... he has selfishly altered the very nature of the game by himself, over the designs and desires of the majority in the game, in order to pursue his own personal goal: grief for others.

This is not a crime. This is not Arson. This is, however, the equivalent of someone striding into the middle of a playground basketball game with a baseball bat, driving the bball over the far fence and then chasing the players around threatening them to get off his court. It is smallness in human nature. It is a reflection of a deficiency within a person's empathy and social skill. The offender could be a disgruntled teenager, battling the demons of hormones and emotional mismanagement... or he could be someone older who never really grew up inside to realize what it takes to exist in a society.

This has nothing to do with Dueling. Dueling, when done properly, has set rules and agreements before a COMMUNAL declaration of hostility. While I don't appreciate this aspect of the game, I can understand it's appeal. Dueling, once again, is done within parameters that are agreed to. PKing is not.

PKing is not role-playing. PKing is the basest form of antagonism within a virtual existence. Role-playing involves the changing of one's actions and reactions (emotional and physical) to be based on a way of thinking that the player would not normally adopt. If a person wished to role-play a mass-murderer, they should make others in their interaction aware of their intentions and reasons behind the role-playing of such a monstrosity. Those that accepted the risk of playing with such a role-player would then understand the nature of any moves they made... and in turn could role-play their own reactions based on the guise they adopted in the role-playing situation.

However, PKs don't do this. They intrude on the environments of others who have set a foundation of interaction for the session and destroy that foundation for their own "enjoyment". They don't seek the interaction of the other role-players within the game. They don't give a rat's ass if they're upset at the disruption of the other players fun.

Why? Because PKs aren't roleplaying... they're just killing other avatars to cause some grief. If they did want to role-play, they would need other role-players in order to actually role-play effectively.

"It's just a game". Yes, quite right... and you weren't invited. You certainly could have played if you followed the rules.

Please don't play Twister on our Monopoly board.

*tips helm to kandrathe*

Expressing how one feels on issues is the responsibility of a citizen of the world. We agree on that, and more. I also agree that this will not persuade those that already choose the course that we abhor. While we may feel strongly about the larger ramifications of such "trivial" injustices, they probably never will.

*shrugs* At least we can determine who's who.