Hell Difficulty

[Dozer]

Hi,
I have been gone on vacation and just caught up with all this 1.10 beta buzz going on, and I have decided to just take a Diablo 2 break until 1.10 actually comes out. However, I recalled from some previous press releases that Blizzard was saying that quest rewards for Hell difficulty would be boosted in the patch and see no mention of it here. Did this get cut from the beta patch or what?

[TaiDaishar]

I do not recall any quest reward changes announced by Blizzard... although they could be a nice change (Hell Nihlathak giving your name on an item for HC as well anyone?)

[Ignatz]

Seems to me that positive reinforcement is the best way to get people to do quests. I hate the cop-out ways Blizzard seems to be tying to prevent rushing.

Here's an idea. If every one of the 5 non-Mephisto quests actually provided a reward comensurate with the difficulty/time required to complete it, I bet a whole lot more people would.

I mean, who DOESN'T do the skill quests, the stat point quest, and the socketing quest? No matter who you are, these are great, valuable rewards for quests. But getting your name on something (and killing off all trade value)? Getting a crappyass rare ring or rare char-specific item? Hip. Hip. Hooray. Or getting a Tal Ort and Ral run for running around saving barbarians' lives in HELL difficulty??* Gimme a break.

I say don't FORCE people to do the quests (anti-portalling, etc), just convince them to do them because they WANT to! I mean, this is a game, right? The whole point is that people do it because they enjoy it? Using negative feedback, such as not allowing portalling or annoying area skipping is only going to annoy people. Provide a reward that they salivate over, and they'll deal with flayers, countesses and councils.

Then, fix rushing by simply not allowing characters lower than lvl 60 in Hell, 40 in Nightmare.

This seems obvious to me. Is there something I'm just not getting, here?


*How about a different set of runes that completes a sequentially more interesting runeword? Like Leaf on nightmare and Smoke on Hell, etc? (Poorish examples, I know)

[--Pete]

Hi,

I agree with you about everything except "Then, fix rushing by simply not allowing characters lower than lvl 60 in Hell, 40 in Nightmare." Once a character has completed one difficulty, there should be nothing preventing him/her from going on to the next. Some *players* are ready for NM with a clvl 30 character and some wouldn't be ready with a 99.

--Pete

[Guest]

Simply not allowing you to gain any exp off of a monster which clearly out og your league.

Say, any mob over 1.75 ypur lvl gives no exp at all.

Seeing a lvl 1 in hell doesnt really hurt the online game, because its a novelty. Once some one does it they gennerally move on.

Rushing people so they can get faster exp in hell being power lvled, DOES hurt the online game. Because B-net is about playing in the community.

[Dagni]

Ugh. I already hate the huge exp penalty for fighting monsters far above your level if you are clvl 24 or below. Don't make it worse. When playing solo, I wish there was NO exp penalty ever for fight higher level monsters.

Now, if any monster double your level that was damaged, however slightly, by any other player - whether partied or not - gave no experience, that'd be fine. But if the character kills, without any outside help, the monster that was "out of his league", why shouldn't he get the full exp? With some characters I've had it was so easy to kill mlvl 40 monsters at clvl 20.

The changes Blizzard has made may have already made power-leveling not worthwhile. I.e. less exp for the junior member in a party, needs to be within 2 screens of the kill.

- Dagni

[kandrathe]

Or getting a Tal Ort and Ral run for running around saving barbarians' lives in HELL difficulty??* Gimme a break.  ... *How about a different set of runes that completes a sequentially more interesting runeword? Like Leaf on nightmare and Smoke on Hell, etc? (Poorish examples, I know)

How about 3 random different runes, Tal or better?

I would change the Charsi quest to randomly add an Affix to a rare (up to 6) based on you cLvl. Akara should drop a rare Amulet instead of a ring, but it should be based on Affixes at your cLvl. Ormus should drop the rare ring, as with Akara, it should with skills at your cLvl. Change the Anya quest to be able to select to personalize or add a color tint for items. Have Nihlathak's drops include a slightly increased chance for something interesting, maybe Rainbow Facet Jewels. Have the Normal Horadric cube be 3x3, the NM cube be 3x4 and the Hell cube be 4x4. Actually randomize where Lam Essems tome is located, as it was originally intended.

Just my quest wish list, without making it to overpowered -- yet IMO, would motivate most to complete all the quests.

[Rataxes]

Actually randomize where Lam Essems tome is located, as it was originally intended

Exactly how will that create a stronger incentive to complete the quest? It will only add far more tedium to the quest which will keep more people from doing it, like searching all seven tombs of Tal rasha because you don't have the sign. I like the way it is now, when you're rewarded for knowledge, for knowing exactly what the temple looks like and where it can be found. I'll tell you, lots of people have no clue regarding those two things, because they've never done the quest themselves, why shouldn't they be penalized for this?

They could make it sort of like the tombs of Tal rasha though, create some kind of map found in the Kurast Sewers which shows which temple holds the book.

[Arutha]

Exactly how will that create a stronger incentive to complete the quest?

The point isn't inciting people to "complete" quests.
It's inciting people to "play" through the quests.

I like the way it is now, when you're rewarded for knowledge, for knowing exactly what the temple looks like and where it can be found.

What kind of "reward" is that?
Per your own words, the "reward" is that you can skip a lot of areas of the game.
If not having to play the game is a "reward" for you... then why are you playing it in the first place?


Each quest should take some "work". There should be no short-cuts.
If you find the game "tedious"... then it's time to move on.

Reminds of all those people rushing though the game and then doing hundreds of "cow runs".
"We rush because after a while, playing through the acts over and over again is boring."
Yeah, like killing cows, more cows and more cows is less "boring" than playing through the variety of the five acts.

[Lane]

Change the Anya quest to be able to select to personalize or add a color tint for items.

I would love, love, love, love, love this! I like all of your suggestions, but this one inparticular I've wanted for awhile. I really hate the fact that runewords add no coloring whatsoever to equipment.

Not to mention that as an Amazon the quest reward from Anya really sucks. More often than not I get javelins or spears when the majority of my Amazons are bow users.

I have mixed feelings about what Arutha is saying. Personally, I hate Act 3 with a white hot passion. Act 3, to me, is just miserable. I can't be supportive of any movement that forces me to spend any more time there than necessary. This doesn't mean that I don't find other parts of the game enjoyable.

I adore Act 2 and I'm quite fond of Act 5. I don't find the game tedious now, but I sure as heck will if suddenly I'm forced to explore every inch of Act 3. Ugh.

Having said all that, I have always failed to understand why anyone would want to skip the whole game and do endless cows. Talk about boring...

[Rataxes]

I don't do cows, I don't get rushed, I don't rush, I despise people who do. Just thought I'd get that out of the way.

The point isn't inciting people to "complete" quests.
It's inciting people to "play" through the quests.

Is indeed, forcing people to spend hours in the same area searching temples that all look the same and reaching a dead-end in all but the last doesn't exactly create an incentive though. The reward remains the same but the time consumption and tedium of being stuck in the same area, fighting the same monsters and not making any progress, multiplies. No, that doesn't create an incentive. Such a change would likely cause a drop in people bothering with the quest at all.

What kind of "reward" is that?
Per your own words, the "reward" is that you can skip a lot of areas of the game.

Yep, and move on to other areas, see change, fight different monsters, use different tactics, see your character progress. The game grows stale quickly if you do the same thing over and over again or are stuck too long in any one place, which is why I don't ever cow run and why I constantly create new characters with new ideas and plans in my mind. I'm not skipping any area by knowing before-hand which temple is the correct one, what am I missing by not exploring the other temples? They all contain the same monsters, it's all in the same area (the one I most likely already fully explored while searching for the correct temple), I use the same skills, the same tactics, my character would cease to evolve for a time since I would soon grow beyond the allowed 5 lvl difference that allows for decent XP rewards.

If not having to play the game is a "reward" for you... then why are you playing it in the first place?

Correction, more variation is my reward.

If you find the game "tedious"... then it's time to move on.

I enjoy variation, levels 1-40 are usually the most exiciting times for my characters, because that is when I see most change, most variation, most evolution and progress. Being stuck in a single area searching identical temples, fighting the same monsters and using the same skills and tactics for an extended period of time certainly isn't my idea of fun, no more fun than doing cows.

Yeah, like killing cows, more cows and more cows is less "boring" than playing through the variety of the five acts.

And yet, here you are, advocating that quest-solving should involve more repetition.

[Rhydderch Hael]

For the reward Anya gives you when you bust Nihl's chops, she gifts you with a Unique Jewel offering random but high-level stats, and that also bears the name of your character. When inserted into a Socketed item, the name is then applied to the item. Thus, it's personalized and improved— though this would limit personalizations to weps, shields, armor and helms.

[Occhidiangela]

But getting your name on something (and killing off all trade value)?

If it's an item you intend to trade, then don't personalize it. On the other hand, if you personalize a great item, and some one pops your corps, you may have prevented a dupe. :)

A silver lining in the cloud, eh?

For folks in SP, the personalize can be kinda neat, but Nihilithak is, IMO, too cheesy in Hell HC. So be it.

[pakman]

I remembe with my normal IG/AD/LR/CE/IM/Spirit Necro Jimmy_John, me and Nihl used to have CE contests...I usually won :)

[Taem]

There is/was talk supposedly (heard it on b.net chat forums) that the Nihilithak quest would give set item bonuses with 2+ items of the same set. Anything I hear either hearsay or directly from blizzard I take with a grain of salt. I still want my arenas!!!

[kandrathe]

The quest reward is the +Life bonus... If it isn't enough of an incentive then make it +50 life. The point is that a quest is supposed to be arduous, and then the reward is supposed to be SWEET. Personally, I find it both aggravating and amusing when my character finds the summoner on the final spoke of the wheel.

[keenduck]

Well, if the person had actually done the Summoner quest, he would have the sign for the real Tal Rasha's tomb. Just run around to find the right entrance and you're done. Now if you had done the Summoner in a different game, it's probably best if the sign shows up in your quest log somehow. That way you won't have wasted your time. Unfortunately Blizzard usually displays little sense. :(

[channel1]

The quest reward that is potentially the most improved in 1.10 is A5Q5 (Ancients).

It seems that it has gone from adding points to your Experience to a flat bump of 1 level. For a low-level character, like level 20 in Normal, this is a major drop in value of the reward.

BUT, what if you skip the tasks until much later in your character development? It's pretty easy to do, and still move on to the next area. All you need to do is kill the Ancients before you hit level 20/40/60 in Normal/NM/Hell, and you have legitimately gained access to the next area. There are also other ways to skip the Ancients.

Then, if you want to be first kid on the block to hit level 99, just do the Ancient Quests once you hit level 96. From a long and arduous task, getting those last three levels normally, you could blow through it in about a half hour, tops. Doing it this way would make the 3 rewards worth the equivalent of 803,062,757 experience points.

-rcv-

[Baylan]

Except for that there is a cut off at each of the various ancient quests. I heard reports of a level 76 getting half a level instead of a full level from hell ancients, etc.

Also there is the factor that you can't go into WSK unless you have completed the Ancients because of Anti-Rush measures put in by Blizzard.

Baylan

[Arutha]

The actual "reward" is supposed to be the ability to access the Canyon and go further into the game.

I would have had the Summoner drop the Horazon Journal which would have opened the Red Portal to the Canyon when you click it in your inventory.

That way, people would have had to kill the Summoner (I don't think many people just rush past him without killing him, but that would have ensured they couldn't do it).
And I certainly would not have left any clue to the players about the True Tomb.

What's the point of having 7 tombs, with one of the most dangerous superuniques down one of them, if you allow players to go straight for the True Tomb?