What am I doing wrong

[Longhunter]

I'm used to getting through Normal with a Bowazon, using players 8 and either not dying at all or just a few times here and there, as a result of my own stupidity.
Now, I've started a new zon, she's at level 17 in the Catacombs and I'm having a very hard time of it, even at players 4.
I tried something different with her and pumped Magic Arrow so that I can now use it continuously on my left MB. (I also staggered the stat pts, building everything and not just Str and Dex like I normally do)
Even if I have screwed up the allocation of skill pts, I really don't believe that this is the problem. It's not like I could have put the points into a much better skill.
I'm just wondering, is this a result of the patch or is it a mistake I have made in building my latest Amazon.

[WarBlade]

It's either

1.) What the-! Killed by a puny insert creature name AGAIN!!! :o
2.) Die dammit! I've emptied my Mana globe twice already!!! :angry:

Or both?

Basically, "yes". The game is tougher. You'll need bigger guns. You'll need a heftier Vitality investment. You'll need to design your defenses and keep any holes plugged - even Poison Damage.

You also might want to try using Slow Missiles more often and other defensive Amazon tricks. Be ready to guzzle those potions. ;)

[Longhunter]

LOL, yeah, thats it alright.
I've gone back to the drawing board and started another Amazon.
I was not quite sure what the problem was, whether is was my failure to build her properly or the game being a little harder and me not making the correct adjustments.
I guess I just have to get used to the fact that she will die a lot more than I am used to, it just means a lot more thinking on my part and thats what really hurts :)

Your reply is appreciated.

[SwissMercenary]

My amazon didn't have much issues untill Act 3 Normal - At that point, even with strafe, on players 1, monsters took 3-4 shots to kill.

She is currently completely stuck in Act 4. I don't know about you, but Slvl 3 Strafe requires 12 shots, and a belt stack of manas to kill a monster group. Even on Players 1.

[Baajikiil]

I guess I just have to get used to the fact that she will die a lot more than I am used to, it just means a lot more thinking on my part and thats what really hurts 

I think that besides fighting tactics, players must also put alot more thought into their equipment as well. More planning before act bosses, more shopping to get decent(well rounded) equipment, crafting/cubing to stay up to par.

Unless you twink, I see players having to actually balance their equipment, rather than just blow through the game till NM act3 and mf meph till they can fully equip in uniques/sets.

I recently fought duriel on players 8 with a untwinked necro and a shock bear(shock bear has spent no stat points in str, and necro has only put more than 1 skill point in bonewall). It was really a fight for our lives. We had to retreat twice to town for refueling, but we managed without dying.

The new danger level is appreciated. A good change IMHO.

[Occhidiangela]

Bowazon enhancements without twinking

1. Socketed Bows with the most damage enhancements you can get: jewels or gems. By the time you hit the catacombs, you will have collected a few gems. Even a single Gem Shrine can help. Never use a Gem shrine for other than upgrading a gem.

Putting two flawed Topaz and either a chipped or flawed sapphire, or emerald, your choice, makes a nice plus up to damage on a bow, and either stops monster regen or, and I prefere the sapphire, slows down the enemy. Two flawed emeralds are also a good choice with a sapphire if you need to adapt hit and run tactics.

1a. Throw javelins, lots of damage there.

Depending on your luck, +damage jewels are probably preferable, as they will also boost your Dex Bonus to damage if embedded in the bow. Luck will be an issue there, though.

2. Every few levels, drop a point or two into vitality. I always did this in HC. It is a habit that appears to be necessary in 1.10.

3. Use Inner Sight to lower AC of enemy. In act I, it has far more impact than later acts.

4. A soon as you hit level 7, rehire a rogue at level 7. (Dont forget to keep the original rogue's equipment.) She will level up in players 8 quite a bit faster than otherwise, and can almost keep pace with you, though she will still lag behind a bit. Make sure her bow has either plenty of chips or damage jewels in it, again depending on luck.

5. Antidote potions: during the Andy Fight, antidote pots in your belt will go a long way toward mitigating her poison attacks.

6. Charms. Nuff said.

7. Cash stuff in, frequently. I realize that it may slow you down a bit, but the dough has a great use: to gamble. Boots, belts, and gloves in the rare category can be a huge boon to act I normal for "pure" characters, and even act II.

Luck does drive that a little bit.

8. Use the "terrain," sort of the way you would in Diablo I. Channeling the enemy into your kill zones makes things a bit easier.

9. Liberal use of Slow Missile is always a good idea.

[Longhunter]

Thanks for the very intelligent replies, I never twink so this has definitely prompted quite a bit of planning/strategy, which is always good.
I think pumping Magic Arrow was a mistake, I could have used those points in the Passive skills.
I've never used Inner Sight, but I will now, along with Slow Missiles, which I usually use anyway.

This definitely is a different game, this is fantastic, and I thank you again for the ideas.

[Occhidiangela]

Or Cold Arrow is the "auto hit" feature. I find them a better choice than Magic Arrow froma practical sense. :)

[Ignatz]

That is, is maxxing Fire, Ice or Cold arrow in any way useful in 1.10? Or is that variant material that wouldn't get me past normal? (If that, even?)

Immolation and Freezing arrow seem like the most useful ways of getting elemental damage in, but I'd love to hear that any of the other elem arrows had some use when maxxed? (On their own, that is, not in synergy)

[Occhidiangela]

Freezing Arrow and Pierce probably has to get the not insofar as best AoE skill, hoever, Ice Arrow, when pumped, puts a significant increase onto the chill duration, which in Hell Diff helps. It also, at present adds your Physical Bow Damage to Ice, and last I used it, leached off of the combined damage.

If you line up the monsters, Ice Arrow and Pierce sure freeze a lot of them. I like the lower Mana Cost of Ice Arrow as well.'

If you are looking at damage potential, though, I'd have to say that until you get down to single monsters it is much better than Ice Arrow.

At present, Fire Arrow is just a one pot wonder for Auto Hit. Cold Arrow, if what you are aiming for is chill duration, can be good for that, but there are other ways to solve that without putting 20 points into Cold Arrow.

Of the three, Ice Arrow is the most useful, but Immolation and Freezing are certainly better AoE skills.

[Longhunter]

There was a time when I used to put a point into Jab and use a spear/trident until I found a good bow. That would sometimes not be until late Act II. Meanwhile I would place all other points into the Bow/Crossbow tree (plus Critical Strike). It was not until I got Ice Arrow that I would switch solely to using the bow.
I stopped doing this thinking it wasn't the "correct" way to build a pure Bowazon.
Now however, I am thinking that that one point in Jab and a nice socketed spear could get me through some of the tough spots.

[Dozer]

I guess this means my no-vitality bowazon isn't going to be viable anymore ^^

[phooker51]

I've tried the exact same thing from scratch, however I've never played anything but HC. I'm testing with sc but using standard HC thinking. My zon is level 23 in a2 (died once because I thought I could run in and get the cube in the last room of halls of the undead instead of clearing it out). I'm playing solo at /players 6 most of the time.

Stat points:
I've never used a system for stat points such as "2 in str, 2 in dex 1 in vit" per level. At least in the early goings of the game, my system is to meet the minimum str/dex required for a reasonable weap, and dump everything else in vitality. It's better to do that early when 100 hp can still get you through half of act 1. Once you have a usable weap, you're going to be killing pitifully slow regardless of whether or not you have 50 dex, or 70, so you might as well stick some in vitality. I think I left act 1 with somewhere around 200-210 hp.

Using skills:
In the early going, don't count on using the offensive skills much. Your mana pool is just too small to field it. For decent sized mobs, I unloaded a mana globe or 2 of multishot, and then switched to normal attack to finish them off. If my merc was being mobbed, I switched to cold arrow to slow the monsters down. Basically, only prolonged use of MS when there were big mobs, otherwise, just a 1-3 volleys and clean up with normal attack.

Skill breakdown:
3 in cold arrow (mainly for frozen arrow later)
4 (or so) in MS
1 in dodge/evade
6-7 in critical hit

Next, gems are pretty much the best you can get item/armor/weapon wise, or thats been the case for me.
Act 1, i ran around using a 3 socket hunter bow: chipped ruby, emerald, and topaz. My merc had a similar bow, except hers had a sapphire. I've since upgraded to a 6-21 damage short battle bow, woopty do. All the chips i saved up I cubed put some to use in my armor. 3 socket armor - 1 normal ruby, 2 flawed sapphires (mana is a pain in the ass and a half). Don't waste your money on anything charsi sells besides like a 3 socket bow, gold is better spent on gambling in the hope you get a decent weapon.

Andariel was about what I expected, slow but easy. Clear out everything else and have a big stock of health pots and antidote potions. You can pretty much just stand in her face and shoot her with normal arrows while popping pots, and going to town to refill if necessary. I didn't bother resurrecting my merc.

Good luck.

[Longhunter]

Ok, thanks, I like the vitality idea and I've been allocating a lot of points to it with my new Amazon, she's at lev 14 now and I've only used a spear so far with a point in Jab. Iam going to switch to a bow when I get Ice Arrow. I am able to level quite fast with little difficulty using the spear (players 8) but that's only temporary.
I actually found a unique item today, first time in many months, it was only Biggins Bonnet but still exciting to see that gold writing lying on the ground, gees I'll freak if I ever find a unique bow.
thanks again.

[Pren]

I think people are still functioning under the mana conservation that we had to do previously. Triumphant and mana leech was required for many characters to become viable, but now everyone has unlimited mana. The few characters who needed to spend points on energy are even fewer now that they can suppliment their mana with unlimited potions.

Were you taking advantage of this with your amazon?

Also, make sure you kill the countess. A chance at a nef rune with a low level amazon could be very useful, especially if you gamble a rare bow with a socket or pair it with poison+cold jewels/gems.

[Longhunter]

Thats an excellent point you know that, the mana issue I mean. No I wasn't taking advantage of it, I didn't really have to worry about mana too much because I had enough pts in Magic Arrow to negate the requirement for mana.
I'm about to go after the Countess now actually.

I will soon be in the same area with my new amazon that I was before, where I kept dying. I am not having any difficulties yet.
thanks Pren.

[InkSpot]

I really think that Freezing Arrow has become a GOOD skill now.

on the arreat Summit the dmg list at lvl 20 is listed as 310-320 cold damage this may not sound as much but then factor in the Synergies it gets from cold arrow: +12% dmg per lvl, with max cold arrow freezing arrow would do (310*3.4) to (320*3.4) = 1054-1088.. This may not sound as much but if you factor in the fact that damage scaling has changed in 1.10 you could very well end up with over 2k cold damage at when Freezing arrow reaches lvl 30.

l