base attack speeds for char. class and wpn types?

[dta]

Sorry if the answer for this question is already readily found elsewhere...


Back in D2C (around 1.06 I think), there were attack-speed charts posted by Jarulf or Trucidation (or Lemekim?) that lists the base attack speed (normal attack, not factoring the skill-based attacks yet) for each character class (eg. Paladin, Barbarian) when using each weapon type (eg. maces, 2-handed swords, polearms, etc.)

I remember saving that post before (yeah, it's a long time back and I stopped playing D2 for a long while). Now for the Druids and Assasins, could someone post the base attack speeds (I think it was in frames/second) for each weapon type?


(I recall that staves were mixed with axes and 2-handed mauls such that since Sorceress are most efficient with using staves (assuming they do melee), sorceresses have staves/axes/2h-mauls as their fastest weapon type.)

1-handed maces/scepters/swords/axes are bunched as 1 weapon type with regards to speed too. I wonder if the same is still true in LoD 1.09?


~~~~~~

(the following questions are probably better off as different post... anyway)

Specifically, I want to know which is the fastest weapon type for a Druid (I'm at a lost as to what kind of weapon should my beginner L20ish Druid use). As my Druid just found a Deathspade unique axe, I love using its +4 mana/kill when casting spells (how should an elemental Druid regain mana if they don't mana leech?). However, when I need to melee (switching to werewolf mostly), I find the Deathspade axe very slow... (I think it was much faster when he was using a socketed scepter as his weapon).

Right now, the Druid isn't built for any specific skill (just did 1 point to every skill to get a taste of how the Druid skills work).


~~~~~~

Similarly, the Assasin -- do they really have to use claws (I know the double-claw attack skill only works on claws)? If I find some high-dmg 1-h weapon, can I still use it with the Assasin skills? Can't seem to find any good claws (she's just L18+ or something). I was wondering which type of weapons is the Assasin fastest at (aside from claws)?


Both questions bring us back to my main question above -- what are the attack speed for each weapon type for Assasin and Druid (and if there are any changes with regards to weapon-type-attack-speed to the old D2C character classes when comparing D2C 1.06 and LoD 1.09)?

[Tub]

Well, problem is: neither wereform attacks nor assassin claw attacks follow the regular speed formulas. comparing baseframes is somewhat pointless here.

fortunately, there is a nice calculator from Heri that calculates both assassin and druid speeds correctly:
http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weapon...hp?lang=english

additional druid information can be found here:
http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/werewolf/
http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/werebear/
for lowlvl, I guess Hwanin's Justice (lvl 28) or Steeldriver (lvl 29) are the first usable weapons you can equip.


about the assassin: as most assassins use their skills to inflict damage rather than raw weapon strength, weapons have to be fast, so you can charge quickly. With Burst of Speed and a little ias, you'll end up with max speed for most weapons, so max speed is more important than base speed.

for claw-charger (the left three), you want to use 2 claws, no matter what. They also work with 1 claw or bare fists, but slower. They won't work with any other weapons.
strike charger top at 7 frames with a claw (or two claws, the second claw is unused here), and at 8 frames for any other 1h weapon.

Although there are some exotic assassin builds that use bows or certain polearms, most sane assassins should stick to claws, namely bartucs (but rare claws with skills and a little leech are ok too)
For my lowlvl-assassins, I usually gamble for Blade Talons. dual leech, maybe colddamage, and I'm happy.

[TheDragoon]

Here's some information explaining the basics of Wereform attacks:
http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wer...ar/weapons.html
http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wer...lf/weapons.html

And here's a calculator for Wereform speeds:
http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wer...rmadvanced.html

But to answer your question, specificially, Druids attack fastest with 2-Handed Axes, Mauls, Polearms, Staves and Bows. They tend to attack slowest with One-Handed Weapons, Two-Handed Swords, Crossbows and Spears. Specifically:

17 - 2-H Axes/Polearms/Staves/Mauls
16 - Bows
19 - 1-H Weapon/2-H Sword
23 - Spears
20 - Crossbow

[dta]

17 - 2-H Axes/Polearms/Staves/Mauls
16 - Bows
19 - 1-H Weapon/2-H Sword
23 - Spears
20 - Crossbow

Thanks for this info. So a Druid even in were-form (werewolf/werebear) can also use/equip a box/xbow but it would still be considered a melee attack?


Does anyone have the above table (standard attack, single-weapon) for Assassins? I can't seem to find it on the web.

[TheDragoon]

So a Druid even in were-form (werewolf/werebear) can also use/equip a box/xbow but it would still be considered a melee attack?

Yup! Many Druids take advantage of this by using the Buriza-Do Kyanon as it attacks VERY quickly, has good damage and the freezing ability.

[dta]

Hmm. so, the werewolf and werebear form basically transforms the "ranged" attack of a bow/xbow into a melee attack (but the same form of attack, eg. physical attack). Does this transformation apply to the various attack types of the werewolf/werebear?


~~~~~~

BTW, still haven't found the base weapon speeds for Assassin yet, are these data in the MPQ files?

[adeyke]

Wereshape druids can use any of their attack skills normally with bows/crossbows, if that's what you're asking.

[Quillan]

Thanks for the link to the spd. calc for classes/weapons, however it's fields won't allow testing, say, Chaos WW for an ass...

I'm exploring the viability of a WW ass utilizing the high magic dam from chaos, quick poison from venom (expand the .4 secs to 2 secs to compare with Poison nova and you get:

435 ave venom damage per .4 secs = 1087 dam per sec
440ish ave PN dam per 2 secs = about 600 dam sec

Of course there are synergies with PN and it hits many monsters, and you have to keep hitting for venom to be constant, but considering the number of his with WW at such high speeds i think it may be doable... i will slap together an ass later to check and see if it works.

So my querry is mainly about WW speed with an assassin... how many hits does it get off? a 2 weapon wielding barb using similar quick weapons (say -20 base, using ataghan) hits 10-12.5 times a second...
so, ONLY taking into account poison and magic damage (we'll have to assume two chaos claws at this point for simplicity):
10 hits: 435 poison, ave 345 magic dam = 4350 + 3450 = 7800 dam/second

This doesn't account for physical damage, open wounds, crushing blow, crit strike, etc. which i think allows the generous numbers used (ie. 435 poison is spread over .4 seconds so it is not a strict 10 times/sec skill, more likely 5 or so depending on crowd size). I have used the conservative 10 hits per second with WW, even though a barb with a base -20 weapon with the built in weapon IAS of 35% from Chaos gives 12.5 hits/second.

SO --- i surmize that this build will do 10,000 dam/sec no problem, only problem is mana for WW.

I will tighten up the math and actually testing when i've time later, but would appreciate any insights. ALso one must bear in mind that Magic damage is probably the least resisted and therefore most powerful form of damage, and that the poison (and inherant open wounds on chaos) will quell the terrible regen of monsters. If preliminary test hold water, my ass won't have to use burst of speed to achieve max hits/second and can therefore bump her res. with fade.

Quillan

PS. yes i realize the range of claws is 1, and this will mitigate some of the damage potential in groups unless the WW is very well aimed.

[TheDragoon]

Assassin Data for Animation A1
11 - Hand to Hand/Claw-Type
15 - 1-H Thrusting/Swinging
23 - 2-H Thrusting/Swinging
16 - Bows
19 - Staff
21 - Crossbow

Assassin Data for Animation A2
12 - Hand to Hand/Claw-Type
15 - 1-H Thrusting/Swinging
23 - 2-H Thrusting/Swinging
16 - Bows
19 - Staff
21 - Crossbow