Interesting rumor about Venom from Bnet

[LucianDK]

When looking at bnet today, i stumbled upon a very interesting rumor. That venom beside adding some poison damage with a fixed low duration of 0.4 seconds. ALSO converts all your damage to poison damage! The guy said that with venom active, he was completely unable to damage a poison imune door in hell act5. And had to wait till venom expired till he could smash it and move on.

[ImpressiveOne]

this would be bad and good no? If you had -enemy resistance to poison it would be good, but bad in against poison immune.

I'm sure there were some unique/runewords that give -enemy poison

[TaiDaishar]

I find it hard to believe since assassins with Venom can still leech...

[LucianDK]

It could be good for dealing with physical imunes. And for some staggering damage. Take max tigerstrike and combine with a high damaging finisher. Perhaps claw mastery too if you are using your assy weapons. Then stack venom on top. And perhaps even further enchance the package with poison charms.

Or think of chars with heavy damage reduction stuff, Venom could bypass all of that.

[Brista]

Yes it has a fixed low duration regardless of other gear

No it doesn't turn your other damage to poison. It just adds. Whatever you were otherwise doing still happens, extra poison damage happens too.

[Ignatz]

niggas triangulate

[Bolty]

niggas triangulate

I could edit that, but I'll let you deal with whatever fallout you get from it...

-Bolty

[Bob]

if the person involved didn't know to cast burst of speed or fade and get it away soon

-Bob

[adeyke]

In 1.10, neither of those skills will remove venom (and venom will remove neither of those). Burst of speed and fade are mutually exclusive, but, unlike in 1.09, venom isn't mutually exclusive with either one of those.

[Ignatz]

If that offends anybody, then those anybodies must spend a lot of their time offended.

Which is funny — since I find them offensive. And I hold my tongue.

Ignatz

[BigGrim]

If that offends anybody, then those anybodies must spend a lot of their time offended.

Personally, I'm not offended.

However, please read the Forum FAQ in regards to offensive material. Also, please read the line about common sense and decency. The use of the N-word, in any form, can be potentially offensive considering that this is text so when the word is used in anything but an educational context on history or etymology, it can be read as offensive.

There is a large amount of history to the word, let me refer you to N*gger: The Strange Case of a Troublesome Word by Randall Kennedy. The N-word has more of a societal impact than any other word associated with hate speech has ever had in American history, so if the N-word offends anyone it isn't because they spend a lot of time being offended. It is presumptious of you to state such.

Which is funny — since I find them offensive. And I hold my tongue.

You hold your tongue at the wrong time, methinks. Let me get this straight...You don't hold your tongue when it comes to things that can offend people, but you hold your tongue when you personally are offended? I think that perhaps it should be the other way around. I'm also quite interested that you find people that have standards of behavior, once again read the Realm FAQ, as offensive. I, on the other hand, get offended by people who don't respect expected standards of behavior.

I suppose you hold your tongue when you get disrespected? Since by posting the N-word, which is against the standards of this forum, you are...in essence...disrespecting the standards that this community exists by, and as a member of that community I find you offensive, and I will not hold my tongue to say that such behavior is not welcome. If you cannot understand why, then you are not welcome either.

-Grim-

[dryga]

You hold your tongue at the wrong time, methinks. Let me get this straight...You don't hold your tongue when it comes to things that can offend people, but you hold your tongue when you personally are offended? I think that perhaps it should be the other way around.

bollocks.

shutting up whenever you're about to say anything mildly confrontational just because you don't want to offend people is not a virtue (especially considering how easily offended a large segment of the American population is.) personally, I'd say that there are a ton of people out there who need to be offended a bit more often.

there's also pretty major difference between the words n*gger and nigga. you're not going to hear young black kids call each other "n*gger" to cultivate their thug-image, even though they're both basically the same word. "nigga" simply carries less luggage.

and for what it's worth, I thought "niggas triangulate" was kind of funny.

[BigGrim]

shutting up whenever you're about to say anything mildly confrontational just because you don't want to offend people is not a virtue

You'll have to prove this to me. Knowing when to hold your tongue and choosing your words is very important in our society. It shows good communication skills, and as any anthropologist will tell, human brain development reflects our need for complex social interactions. While attending a wedding ceremony in progress, you notice someone who just recently stole your girlfriend. Are you going to cause a scene and say something to the guy during the ceremony and offend the wedding party and numerous guests? Shutting up, in this case, is socially conscious. To do otherwise would be selfish. The same goes with saying the N-word when there are other viable choices that have less potential to be offensive. There are other socially conscious choices, using the N-word is selfish.

personally, I'd say that there are a ton of people out there who need to be offended a bit more often.

I disagree. Exposing them to the offensive word may cause them psychological stress. All it does is force them to deal with it, it does nothing to alleviate the offensiveness of the word. That's one reason why people are forced to play private games on Diablo. Griefer activity follows this reasoning. "I can PK you, deal with it". Many of us consider that inconsiderate and socially irresponsible behavior. The actions are harmful to someone else, and the actor in this case shows no remorse about harming that individual.

I would say that there are a ton of people out there who need to be educated on the nature of the things they find offensive in the hopes that they will learn to tolerate, if not accept, such behavior. Homosexuality, premarital sex, crossdressing, racism, sexism, ageism...a bit of education can go a long way.

there's also pretty major difference between the words n*gger and nigga.

Words evolve. The latin root for n*gger is niger for black. Ever used niger ink? The English language evolves. I attribute the change from n*gger to n*gga with the modern act of dropping the last constanant in the pronunciation of colloquial speech. Hanging turns to hangin', proper turns to propa, motherf***er turns to motherf***a, and thus n*gger turns to n*gga. To some people, it's simply a pronunciation difference, or does motherf***a have a different connotation as well?

you're not going to hear young black kids call each other "n*gger" to cultivate their thug-image, even though they're both basically the same word.

You contradict the preceding sentence with this one. "Major difference" versus "basically the same word". Welcome to the strange case of the N-word.

I'm sorry, I can't tell if you or Ignatz are African-American. I've heard other ethnicities say it to black people that are their close friends and to friends of other ethnicities as well. I'm fairly accepting of the colloquial usage of the word. Where I don't want to hear it is in an environment where you are unaware of whether or not people are going to get offended. This is a forum. We can't tell what kind of people are behind the keyboard. Are you going to hop up on a podium in front of an audience of unknown factors and say something potentially offensive? Not a Richard Pryor stand up routine audience either...they're ready for it...but a random sampling of the populace...are you really going to hop up there if you're not of African descent and say "N*ggas triangulate"?

"nigga" simply carries less luggage.

It still carries luggage. Does calling a homosexual person a "fairy" make it any less offensive than calling him a "f*g"? It carries less luggage!

and for what it's worth, I thought "niggas triangulate" was kind of funny.

Good for you, now respect the people who don't, and respect the rules of this forum.

-Grim-

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Not tasteless.

[Ignatz]

Grim,

Thank you for elucidating the inherent sensitivity of the word "nigga". I was unaware of any and all etymological origins and racial implications of a term that, I admit, I simply heard once or twice on the Fox network. Oh wait, my mistake, I don't live under a god damn rock.

You see, Grim, there are two sides in the war of lingual evolution: On the one hand is communicative potency — what could be called lexical ideals — and on the other, emotional insulation.

(Since you prefer to argue in abstraction and with thousand-dollar words, I'll happily do the same.)

The communicative side favors a natural, socially-driven maturation of lingual exchange. It's inclusive of any and all recognizable terms, from new technological jargon and revisionist slang to "street speak", jive, perversive spelling, even acronymic word generation. The singular interest of communication is to become more flexible, more flavorful, and more efficient. That is, to become better.

To discover its optimal methodology, we need only look, specially, at ourselves. Nature has produced in us a stunning vocabulary of biological efficiencies. What if I asked you to build an extremely high definition, 70 frames per second, full color light sensor that operates on less energy per day than in a sunflower seed -- entirely out of water and jelly? You'd laugh in my face, and rightly so. But nature, brainless, insensitive nature, did it for us by incorporating any and all variations in its biological lexicon. Every new gene and every new trait gets thrown into this cook book. Why? Because Nature decided that the best, surest way of producing massive efficiency in its children is to try everything. For my part, I'm happy with the result.

Language is no different. And I'm a big fan of language. I spent a darn lot of years studying it, and have grown a conviction or two. One of them is that language is the most powerful tool we have and its growth and evolution should be encouraged. One facet of that growth is flavor. While language is often shaped like a screwdriver, it's oftener shaped like a canvas. Our personalities and uniqueness are heavily skewed by our diction and syntax. And slang, colloquialism, and inventive methods of lingual expression add incalcuably to our humanity. And to culture. And self-expression. The way you speak makes you YOU.

The other side, the emotionally insulated, favor communicative comfort, solidarity, and uniformity. This is the side that wants to sculpt and conform language to a (heavily culturally specific) set of standards imposed by a governing body. Thusly, they are protected from the heart-afluttering effects of words outside those standards.

They are not wrong to do so. If this side prefers to live in a world with a limited lexicon that couldn't possibly insult blacks, jews, gays, women and, to a lesser extent, whites, christians, straights and men -- then fine, they may do so. However, a microcosm, by definition, exists inside a macrocosm that does not use the same set of rules. That macrocosm is the world, and the world uses everything. You may prefer that the company you keep not say words like, say, "nigga", but the rest of the world won't be so obedient.

But, I thought the Lounge IS such a microcosm? And you can't say those filthy, oppresive, insensitive words! Heck yeah it is. And I'm happy that that's so. Expletives are entirely unnessessary to communicate what kind of Necromancer you just built. And, though there are gray areas, such as "bitch" and "ass", we're all very clear on the use, in this microcosm, of terms like the F, S, C, T, S, C, F and, of course, the N word. I have all the respect in the world for Bolty, and wouldn't even bother circumventing the naughty-parsers to use them. A handy symptom of this policy is that it keeps out the undesireables. Also a plus, especially in the macrocosm of the internet.

That said (verbosely, I know), I refuse to apologize or rescind my playful "niggas triangulate". Why?

1. The text parser didn't catch it. The implication is that it is an acceptable term and may be used.
2. I used the term in a way that cannot, by any majority of any society anywhere, cause offense. "Niggas triangulate" means absolutely nothing. It's fun because the two words do not go together on their own, and have such divergent meanings that the result is absurdity. A core component of humor.
3. It was intended to be humorous.
4. Clearly, even Bolty and the other mods make a distinction between "nigga" and "nigger", since the latter gets parsed out. I would therefore not use it even sans parser. Besides, putting the N word next to "triangulate" isn't funny. See point 3.
5. I will not be policed by civilians.

Okay, that does it for my elitist tirade. To anybody who sat through it and regretted doing so, I'm awful sorry. Free punches if we ever meet in person.

Grim, do yourself a favor. Do not waste your life arguing trifles. You'll find, in the end, very little else.


And as a last note: Does it change anything if I tell you that I am black?

Ignatz

[BigGrim]

Ignatz,

Do not waste your life arguing trifles. You'll find, in the end, very little else.

But argumentation is so mentally stimulating! Seriously, I respect anyone who can argue as well as you can. I don't find it at all to be a waste of my life because it exposes me to new ideas, allows me to reorganize my own cognitive processes, and helps me get to know people better because their philosophies reflect a lot about them. I personally find a lot through argumentation, sometimes even playing Devil's advocate in order to encourage the exchange of more thought-provoking concepts. I also find that the most interesting conversationalists are also talented at argumenation.

Since you prefer to argue in abstraction and with thousand-dollar words, I'll happily do the same.

Alright! I love arguing in abstraction and with a complete vocabulary, and if you happily do so, all the better! It reflects what I said above about enjoying the thought processes involved with the act of argumentation. Abstract thought requires more complex cognitive devices, which in turn keeps me mentally stimulated! If you force me to pull out a dictionary, thank you! I'll have learned a new word and increased my ability to communicate!

And as a last note: Does it change anything if I tell you that I am black?

Nope. Like I said, I personally am not offended and I don't mind that you use the N-Word, but Bolty said:

I could edit that, but I'll let you deal with whatever fallout you get from it...

Rather than let someone else who could've been offended respond in a manner that was less than optimal, I presented an argument. You did say "Works for me" in reference to what Bolty said. Anyhow, I infer from his post that it is something he would edit, but he didn't in this occasion so you could answer the arguments I presented. Thanks, Bolty! Mayhaps we should add the colloquial version of the N-Word to the parser? No? I stand by the community decision!

I will not be policed by civilians.

But I hope you respect our opinions as much as we respect yours, especially when they're as well thought out as this one!

Free punches if we ever meet in person.

I'd take you up on that offer, but only if you let me buy you a drink. What do you like? Coffee? Tea? Liquor? Seriously, we can sit down and discuss and argue more social issues with a nice drink. Maybe even over a stimulating game of chess or what have you? I just want to make sure there are no hard feelings here, I never intended for their to be and if I conveyed such, I apologize. I try my best to present rational arguments and not insensitive flames.

Actually, I agree with a lot of your arguments, but I personally prefer to err on the side of social "conformity". I really don't like hurting other people's feelings. I certainly took what you said into consideration, but stating such in my initial posts would have weakened my arguments. The Devil made me do it, I swear!

Anyhow, since you are a capable debater, feel free to join the debates we have in the Lounge. I'd love to see you chime in with an opinion unless you feel it is too much of a trifle.

-Edit- You titled it "Meh"? That's something my girlfriend and I tend to say a lot. Glad to see someone else using it! Go language evolution! Next thing you know "tch" will be in the dictionary...I'm actually going to go look that up right now.

-Grim-

[Bolty]

1. The text parser didn't catch it. The implication is that it is an acceptable term and may be used.
2. I used the term in a way that cannot, by any majority of any society anywhere, cause offense. "Niggas triangulate" means absolutely nothing. It's fun because the two words do not go together on their own, and have such divergent meanings that the result is absurdity. A core component of humor.
3. It was intended to be humorous.
4. Clearly, even Bolty and the other mods make a distinction between "nigga" and "nigger", since the latter gets parsed out. I would therefore not use it even sans parser. Besides, putting the N word next to "triangulate" isn't funny. See point 3.
5. I will not be policed by civilians.

Interesting, because it's exactly those five reasons why I didn't edit your post. As you said, there was a clear context involved, i.e. you weren't calling someone a &$%!ing n****.

At the same time, when anyone posts what you did, I tend to get a few emails about it. So I decided to post that you'll have to defend yourself, because I knew you would.

-Bolty

[dryga]

I disagree. Exposing them to the offensive word may cause them psychological stress. All it does is force them to deal with it, it does nothing to alleviate the offensiveness of the word. That's one reason why people are forced to play private games on Diablo. Griefer activity follows this reasoning. "I can PK you, deal with it". Many of us consider that inconsiderate and socially irresponsible behavior. The actions are harmful to someone else, and the actor in this case shows no remorse about harming that individual.

not unsurprisingly, I disagree. if hearing "niggas triangulate" causes you psychological stress, then you've lived an insanely sheltered life and would probably be better off if you'd been offended a bit more often in the past. indeed, all it does is force them to deal with it. and that might be a good thing.

if you have something worthwhile to say, then I think you should say it even if it offends the ones with the very thinnest skins. maybe they'll learn something eventually.

and a good joke is always worthwhile. "niggas triangulate" is funny because of the juxtaposition between nigga (urban slang) and triangulate (insane math). can you hear DMX saying damn, y'all niggas be triangulatin'? ;)

Words evolve. The latin root for n*gger is niger for black. Ever used niger ink? The English language evolves. I attribute the change from n*gger to n*gga with the modern act of dropping the last constanant in the pronunciation of colloquial speech. Hanging turns to hangin', proper turns to propa, motherf***er turns to motherf***a, and thus n*gger turns to n*gga. To some people, it's simply a pronunciation difference, or does motherf***a have a different connotation as well?

indeed, words evolve. indeed, nigga evolved from n*gger. I don't see where that rebuts anything I said. I've never heard "nigga" used as a derogatory term -- when it's meant to be offensive, people use the real N-word. and vice versa, those members of the black american population who are using the word colloquially aren't going around calling each other n*ggers.

which is why I think "urban slang" when I hear nigga and "really derogatory term" when I hear n*gger. even though the word was used without any context in Ignatz' first post, I still think it'd be a long jump to conclusions to assume that anything demeaning was meant with it.

You contradict the preceding sentence with this one. "Major difference" versus "basically the same word". Welcome to the strange case of the N-word.

sorry if I was unclear, when I said "basically the same word" I meant etymologically, not that they have basically the same meaning.

I'm sorry, I can't tell if you or Ignatz are African-American. I've heard other ethnicities say it to black people that are their close friends and to friends of other ethnicities as well. I'm fairly accepting of the colloquial usage of the word. Where I don't want to hear it is in an environment where you are unaware of whether or not people are going to get offended. This is a forum. We can't tell what kind of people are behind the keyboard. Are you going to hop up on a podium in front of an audience of unknown factors and say something potentially offensive? Not a Richard Pryor stand up routine audience either...they're ready for it...but a random sampling of the populace...are you really going to hop up there if you're not of African descent and say "N*ggas triangulate"?

no, but then again the Lounge isn't a random sampling of the population. for one thing, "males 18-30" are going to be a much bigger group here than in a random sample. :) that's also why I'd expect more people here to be "hip with the lingo", so to speak, and not be offended by "niggas triangulate".

It still carries luggage. Does calling a homosexual person a "fairy" make it any less offensive than calling him a "f*g"? It carries less luggage!

the point I was trying (and apparently failing) to make is that "nigga" carries luggage precisely because it isn't normally used in an insulting manner. in your example, both are used as insults. can you imagine a cranky bigotted texan saying to his grandkids "now, I don't want you to play with those niggaz that moved in here last week, got that?"

Good for you, now respect the people who don't, and respect the rules of this forum.

:blink:

did I disrespect the people who didn't find it funny? I thought my post was rather polite, other than the "bollocks" part. and where oh where did I break the forum rules?

[unless]

Dear Ignatz,

You rule

Love,
Me

[true_dweomer]

Wow. That was the most erudite and tempered disagreement over the "N-word" I've ever seen on an Internet messageboard. I thought the statement was funny, but it is blatantly obvious to anyone capable of having such a discussion that the word is intrinsically inflammatory, regardless of intended humor. I have to applaud Bolty for being such a progressive mod. Even though I got a kick out of it, if I were the mod, I would have deleted the post.

Now lets see if this formula works with anything else: "Hispanics...circumnavigate!" <_< Not quite. How about: "Pollocks...reductio ad nauseum!" Hey, I'm Polish so I'm allowed to say that one ;) .