Hooray for the Italians, and Nutella!

[Griselda]

I had an excellent teacher in high school that assigned us a 40-page paper my junior year (*and* provided us with the support we needed to actually finish the assignment). So, while I was in Washington, I wanted to stop by the library of congress and see if I could turn up some information.

Well, I wasn't alowed into the library of congress, because I wasn't old enough. :angry: They suggested I contact my senator, who could make an exception and let me in. Well, Bill Bradley was busy the whole week (he did stop by and wave once), so I could only see this staffer guy. He said he couldn't get me in, but he could go over there and find some sources for me. Well, I checked back every day, and he always had some excuse like "What's the HUAC?" Finally, on the last day, he said he hadn't been over there, so instead he gave me a brochure on "how to research." Boo.

Lucikly, we have the internet nowadays. :)

I suppose researching my term paper probably wouldn't have been the best use of government funds, but I doubt this particular guy was missed elsewhere in the office. :P

I actually never saw the film version of The Crucible, but the same high school teacher took us to the play.

-Griselda

[Vandiablo]

Gris got my point right, Occhi did not.

I don't think he was suggesting that you equate feminism and McCarthyism, Occhi. He was pointing out examples of situations where accusation equaled guilt, no feminism required. That phenomenon is hardly new, and not unique to feminism.

Thank you, Gris.

Occh, you clearly misunderstood my post. The post of yours I responded to made it sound (to me) as if you blamed "accusation equaled guilt" on the rise of feminism, which given your frothy response to me, you do not believe. So you misspoke, I misheard, or you didn't clarify enough.

Thank you for helping prove my point that since modern feminism came after those other episodes, it could not have caused them. As Gris pointed out, they were my list of "accusation equals guilt". I was trying to show that, historically, feminism could not have possibly caused the accuse/guilt thing.

To give myself credit, I said that "given your posting history" I doubted you would either subscribe to "feminism created accuse=guilt" or just be parroting what others have said. SOOOO then I tried to figure what you MEANT. It appeared that maybe you meant feminism got us the current walking-on-tiptoes about sexual harassment -- NOT the accuse/guilt thing. I stated a glib opinion or two about that.

I apologize for not making myself more clear, and for assuming that you meant all of feminism, not just radical feminism. I too have been around for many of the changes you mention, and it burns me up when people don't recognize the real contribution that feminism has made.

Van

ps. Thanks for making me regret posting on a political topic. It should help me next time I get the urge, and in fact may help me to stop reading them in the first place.

[goldfish]

What is society willing to put up with insofar as "crimes against persons?"  The debate on that continues to be clouded by the idiots who portray the perps as victims, rather than the folks who got violated in the first place.

Statutory rape is an "admin offense."  If consensual, no need for a bullet to the head.

The real deal?  Shoot 'em works for me. 

But then, thanks to twits who take the position that "seduction is the moral equivalent of rape" (but only in one direction, the hypocrites) and who then try to translate that into legal rules, the very clarity of "the term" and "the crime" waters down any simple solution such as: death penalty.

Since there is considerable disagreement as to "just what is and is not rape" there will be an exponential increase in disagreement in how to deal with the perps.

The real deal? Shoot 'em works for me.

As I mentioned before in another thread (which I'm not sure where), this is a Terrible idea ™.

It is absolutely crucial that murder be punished more severely than rape; rape cannot have the same penalty as murder.

Where they have the same penalty, the rapist has no incentive not to simply murder his victim. And he has a lot of incentive the other way, since his victim is the best witness against him. Bottom line, the end result of death-penalty-for-rapists is a lot of dead rape victims. It was tried in China (now abandoned, thankfully) and is now a classic example in the legal literature of legislation that fails because it creates the wrong incentives for people.

As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, laws should be evaluated based on their effect upon "the bad man." I.e., what practical effect will this law have in terms of behavior of criminals? The "bad man theory of law" is still influential today, for a good reason, and when legislatures ignore it the results are often disastrous.

[Chaerophon]

Hey Van, look at Occhi's tongue, therein lies the key... I think that he misinterpreted your response, but it seems likely that you misinterpreted him in the first place. I got the impression that his was a tongue in cheek jab at misguided feminism, not intended to be taken entirely at face value.

As for your posting habits: post more! You're clearly an intelligent individual.

[Chaerophon]

Fair enough; a good argument. I was merely attempting to point out that in my mind, many rapes prove an inherent character of disregard for human life in the perpetrator, thereby equating their actions with those of a murderer. Your points make perfect sense.

[Occhidiangela]

Maybe the punishment to fit the crime is indeed to spend 5 years being "Bubba's bitch."

[Occhidiangela]

I over reacted. Won't blame the caffeine, this one's on me.

Feminism Gone Bad and Feminism are not the same thing. Maybe my lack of clarity is to blame in the first place.

If one goes back to its foundation as an effort, in the Women's Suffrage movement, to try and get the 14th ammendment to apply across gender boundaries, the roots of the Feminist movement are progressive and every bit as valid as the Civil Rights movement.

Of course, some of us cast a faintly jaundiced eye on not too distant tie in between the original Suffrage Movement and the Temperance movement, which brought us Prohibition, and know that "Feminism Gone Bad" is nothing new, eh?

Which brings me to the War on Drugs. Don't we ever learn?

[Vandiablo]

... so now we may return to making songs of Middle-Earth legends to the tune of the great sit-coms!

Only:
darn, my new semester starts in ten days. Darn. As an old guy working full time, with a young kid, I'm afraid I won't be able to tour because of homework. Darn.

-VanDarned

ps. McCarthyism is made out of Joe McCarthy ... Women voted for Joe McCarthy ... Women's Suffrage allowed women to vote*... Feminism caused Women's Suffrage Movement... so ... therefore ... if a woman weighs the same** as a duck (or is equipped with natural flotation devices)... she floats in water.... so she's made of ... wood? ... and therefore ... a witch! [mpq]

ps2. NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!! [mpq]

*except Wyoming, which allowed women to vote when it entered the union, and maybe some other state(s) I can't remember

**we all know that should be "has the density of" rather than "weighs the same"

[Vandiablo]

As for your posting habits: post more! You're clearly an intelligent individual.

Thanks. Now if I can only get me some wisdom. And while I'm wishing, I'll add a harem to the list.

I'll forward your comment to my wife and my other boss, though I doubt they'll believe you.

As for interpreting Occhi's tongue... is that garlic? ... I thought the tongue was meant to signify that the "thank you" was sarcastic, not that he didn't believe the part that followed the "thank you." But that's ancient history now.

-Van

ps. Does anyone know how much it costs to maintain a harem these days? Where do you find eunuchs? And those swords they use... I forget what they're called, but they had a DUR of 20 in Diablo I... and what type of material should cover the throw pillows? Is it too much to ask an odaliste to do some sewing or laundry when they're not, uh, on deck?

[Occhidiangela]

... so now we may return to making songs of Middle-Earth legends to the tune of the great sit-coms!

Oh, and I will not sit in the Comfy Chair, since everyone will keep saying

"The Comfy Chair!"

A soft pillow will do nicely, thanks very much, as I have three buttocks!