Sorc Triplets Group

[Occhidiangela]

It was balanced for D2, and he has recently advised a fellow over at the RBD forum who was interested in EST that the rule set, due to timers and other factors, may be a bit out of whack for LoD. For a link to the original rules:

Sirian's EST

From the conversation you all have had here, it seems to me that you might want to go with three sorceresses and a few support players.

Necro with Lower Resist and a an Iron Golem made from a "Prevent Monster Heal" item, Paladins with Conviction and Meditation. Who knows what else, Maybe an Amazon with maxed Plague Javelin, per Sirian's original template.

Getting 8 people together is hard hard hard. Four or Five is usually doable.

Best of luck to you all. Sounds like fun! :)

EDIT: Horrific spelling, sorry.

[IlleglWpns]

Is there room for a poison necro?

[Coca]

Is there room for a poison necro?

I listed that on the final decisions...

Anyway, just as a warning, I most likely won't respond to this forum or any e-mails from Tuesday - Saturday, because I'll be gone.

[IlleglWpns]

I listed that on the final decisions...

Technically you listed "curse/bone skills necro" which is a different thing......

I'm assuming your answer is yes, so I'm willing to play a poison necro in 1.10s.

[Occhidiangela]

In an effort to adapt the original rules to the new resistances for LoD. I am sure Sirian would find some balance holes in this approach to his excellent EST rule set. In order for folks to enjoy this team, each person should play each character at some point in the gaming journey to Hell Baal, otherwise there would be some tedium for a few of the support players. Thus, I'd say that Sirian's suggestion for separate accounts for each team member supports that kind of versatility and allows each session to progress when one or two don't show up. See his original rules prologue on how the team is set up.

EDIT: I think I got all of the italics in the right places for where I suggested a change of approach if you wanted to try to adapt the original team to LoD. I honestly believe that start from scratch would make more sense. His original rule set is, last I checked, Copyright Sirian, etc. Spell timers made a huge change to the Sorceress class, and may even have rendered this team variant concept moot.

Suggested modifications for adaptation:

FIRE SORCERESS
* Fire Sorceress restricted to skills from the Fire Tree ONLY. This includes staves and orbs.

* Fire Sorceress resistances.  Naturally resistant to Cold, must max cold resistance.  Cold Absorption not allowed.  Fire absorption allowed.  Fire resistance permitted on a 1 point per clvl level basis for raw resistance.  In hell at level 70, effective -30% resistance allowed.

Res All items not allowed. 

Lightning resistance to taste, no lightning absorb allowed.

Fire resistance shrines not allowed.  Salvation and Res Fire auras cause her to run outside of their effective radius in pain and revulsion.

Resistance to fire will be 0/-40/-100 modified by clvl allowance depending on difficulty level. (NOTE: negative resistance DOES increase damage.)

COLD SORCERESS

* Cold Sorceress restricted to Cold Tree ONLY. This includes staves and orbs.  This means NO WARMTH!!

* Cold Sorceress resistances.  Naturally resistant to Fire, must max Fire resistance.  Fire Absorption not allowed.  Cold absorption allowed.  Cold resistance permitted on a 1 point per clvl level basis for raw resistance.  In Hell at level 70, effective -30% resistance is max.. 

Res All items not allowed. 

Lightning resistance to taste, no lightning absorb allowed.

Cold resistance shrines not allowed.  Salvation and Res Cold auras cause her to run outside of the radius in pain and revulsion.

Resistance to Cold will be 0/-40/-100 modified by clvl allowance depending on difficulty level. 
(NOTE: negative resistance DOES increase damage.)

* Cold Sorceress prohibited from using any items that would reduce or prevent freezing effects.  This includes thawing potions.


LIGHTNING SORCERESS

* Lightning Sorceress restricted to Lightning Tree ONLY. This includes staves and orbs.

*  Lightning Sorceress resistances.   Not Naturally resistant to Cold or Fire.  May max either resistance at 50% effective resistance total.  Neither Fire nor Cold Absorption allowed.  Lightning absorption allowed.  Lightning resistance permitted on a 1 point per clvl level basis for raw resistance.  In Hell at level 70, effective -30% resistance allowed.

Res All items not allowed. 

Lightning resistance shrines not allowed.  Salvation and Res Lightning auras cause her to run or teleport outside of the radius in pain and revulsion.

Resistance to Lightning will be 0/-40/-100 modified by clvl allowance depending on difficulty level. (NOTE: Negative resistance DOES increase damage.)

* Lightning Sorceress restricted in assigning skill points to Static Field skill: no more than one point assigned to Static per act played.  So for Normal difficulty, the base skill maximums for Static would be 1/2/3/4/5/, in Nightmare, base skill levels for Static not to exceed 6/7/8/9/10, Hell 11/12/13/14/15.   + Skills on top of this are OK, only the base skill level is limited by this rule.  (The idea is to keep the Lightning sorcie from being a one-dimensional walking static field from the beginning her life all the way through to the end. It may happen anyway, eventually, but at least through her early career, there can be use of other skills going on -- and if pumped and used early, perhaps those skills will still see some use later in the game, too.)

Optionally: SF only allowed at one point per difficulty base, and whatever plus skills that show up just boost her SF.  I personally like this idea better as the original SF focus limitation was made before uber + skillz items were available.  Also, with synergy, there are too many other points to consider.


POISON NECROMANCER

* Necromancer is intended to rely mainly on Poison Skills and Curses, but will have to invest a prereq point into Corpse Explosion.  He is allowed to use that skill ONLY until Poison Explosion becomes available (clvl 18).

* Necromancer prohibited from using Iron Maiden.  Prohibited also from using any skills from the Summoning Tree.

* Necromancer resistances: Lightning, Fire, and Cold Absorb allowed.  Maxed Fire, Cold and Lightning allowed.  Res to poison restricted to one point base per clvl.   (At clvl 70 in hell this makes -30.)

Resist all items prohibited.   

Poison Shrines and Cleanse aura are avoided like the plague. (Pun intended)  

* Necromancer is forbidden to use "Reduces length of poison items" until level 25, 50, and 75 respcetively."  He is forbidden from using antidotes.  (Healing in town is permitted, even if poison duration has not ended, and Well usage is  permitted).


BOW AMAZON

* The bow-using Amazon is forbidden to use the non-elemental bow skills: Magic Arrow, Multishot, Guided and Strafe.  They have to get Magic and Multishot as prereqs, but not allowed to use them.  Also forbidden is the Valkyrie skill, but Decoy is OK. And of course, no skills in the Javelin tree.

The Valk prohibition could be waived, given the number of mercs, however, I'd suggest you keep it.


JAVELIN AMAZON

* The javelin-and-shield using Amazon is forbidden to use the non-elemental javelin skills (Jab, Impale, Fend). They could opt to go the pure throwing route and specialize in Plague Javelin and Lightning Strike, or they could use the melee lightning skill line if they wish, which would require one prereq point into Jab, but still not allowed to use any Jab. Valkyrie is forbidden, but Decoy is OK. And of course, no skills from the Bow tree.


PROTECTOR BARBARIAN

* The team "Protector" is a barbarian player.  The Protector's role includes teaming with and watching out for the vulnerable spellcasters when fighting opponents that use elemental attacks.  See list at bottom for more details. The barbarian (or really any character) should give warning when a boss has elemental enchantments.

* The Barbarian is restricted in his skill choices. No Weapon Mastery skills AT ALL.  Option: one point in each mastery, or no points at all. You decide.  No Combat Skills except for Leap AT ALL.  Due to resists in LoD, he may put one point into Berserk, but he may not use the pre reqs . . . ever.  The character will focus on War Cries, Iron Skin, Natural Resistance, and perhaps a couple points into Increased Stamina/Speed. A shield is required, preferably with high blocking. Find Potion skill at a modest or even high level would be recommended, and this would save the team from ever having to cube gems into rejuvs: the gems could be saved up for shield use until everyone wanting one has a resistance shield, along with whatever gems the paladin needs. Other party-friendly war cries, like Shout, Grim Ward, Battle Orders, etc etc, would also be recommended.

* The Protector barbarian is forbidden from using any forms of elemental attacks on his weapons, or from magic items that add elemental damages or effects. Gemmed weaponry is allowed, but only with amethysts, diamonds or skulls being socketed.

On the up side, with no weapon masteries the barb can make use of the best weapons that come available, regardless of what type they are.  One-handed weapons only, though. He may also need help from +AR items, since no weapon mastery means no boost to his AR.

He will need to max Dex for good blocking to fulfill his role as Protector.  He needs extra Vitality and must weigh his items at least a bit toward increasing mana.

Elemental Damage Charms are forbidden to the Barbarian Protector.  They degauss the sorceresses he is trying to protect.


ELEMENTAL PALADIN

* The "Elemental Warrior" is a paladin who uses weaponry that inflicts elemental damages. Paladin is allowed to use any socketed weapon (including scepters, if desired, for their +skill effects).  Weapon must have all sockets filled with gems before being allowed to use it, and each gem must be of a different type, chosen from: ruby, topaz, emerald, sapphire.

Rune Words Are Allowed, but must have elemental Damage.  King's Grace is a preferred weapon, as is the Holy Thunder Scepter.

* Paladin allowed to use Rare weapons with three or more different elemental effects on them, or to use Rares with two or more effects IF a third (different) elemental effect can be gained from other items.  (Such as by socketing.)   (Note: minimum of two effects from the weapon itself.   Only one elemental effect from other items may apply).  Jewels are eligible for socketing weapons only if they have elemental damage on them.

* Paladin gets the first gem chips that fall, to gem a weapon of his choice.  Remember: each gem socketed must be of a different type from the four choices. Thereafter, the Paladin must ALWAYS use a weapon with the required elemental attacks on it. If a rare can be found that fits this restriction, it may be used. Otherwise the Paladin will be consigned to using gemmed weaponry and MAY NOT upgrade until all gem sockets are actually socketed with gems. (So if he is trying to get that 3-Perf exceptional socketed weapon, or otherwise holding off waiting to get higher quality gems to use, he cannot start using that new weapon until all gem slots have been socketed with actual gems).  A cubed sword that has sockets must still have elemental damage added to it.

* Paladin restricted to Sacrifice, Smite, Zeal, and Fist of the Heavens attack forms.  Holy Bolt, Blessed Hammer and Holy Shield are allowed.  Charge and Vengeance are allowed but only at skill level one (+skill items are allowed as well).  Conversion is prohibited, and may be gotten ONLY as prereq to Fist of Heavens.

* Paladin restricted to Prayer, Defiance, Vigor and Meditation for Defensive Auras. Redemption is forbidden because it would consume corpses needed for Poison Explosion, and to a lesser degree for Grim Ward and Find Potion.   Cleansing and the four Resistance auras are forbidden because they would interfere with the resistance restrictions on the elemental spellcasters.

* Paladin restricted to Holy Fire, Holy Shock, and Sanctuary, for offensive Auras. (This is NOT meant to be a tank). Holy Freeze and Conviction are allowed, also, but only at skill level one in each, so as not to overshadow the roles of the Cold Sorcie and the Poison/Lower-Resist-Curse Necro. (+skill items are allowed).  Might and Thorns are necessary prereq skills but their use is forbidden!  Blessed Aim, Concentration, and Fanaticism are forbidden.

Option:  Blessed aim may be pumped up to one point per diff level if BH is chosen for synergy effects.   Concentration still forbidden.


LoD consideration Mercs:

In short, Mercs completely abuse this team variant, which was aimed at challenging the players ability to work as a team and survive, with the ladies holding a prima donna status.  Here are a few ideas:

Amazon must hire a rogue apprentice.
Spear Amazon could hire a Defiance or Prayer Act II Merc
Barbarian must hire a Barbarian Apprentice.
Necromancers should hire a Rogue and equip her with poison socketed bow, or an act two merc with the prayer aura and equip him for poison damage.  No golems/Barbarians allowed.

Paladin should hire a Prayer Merc.

Sorceresses should hire either:  Rogues, equipped with a bow that does complementary elemental damage, as this is a "Lady Rules All" team, or more likely

Hire an apprentice Iron Wolf whose elemental attack is identical to their own.  Since the Sorceresses are not necessarily really keen on male magicians, see back story, the Rogue with socketed bows is recommended.

However, it must be repeated, the mercs completely changed the game in LoD and really throw a wrench into the original EST design concept.

Among other reasons, it waters down the role of

Hector Protector, the Barbarian

List of priority opponents for Protector Barbarian:

Protect the Fire Sorcie from:  Fire-Enchanted bosses, Holy Fire aura bosses, Fallen-type Shamen, Gargoyle Traps, Fire Towers, Vampire Lords, Fetish Shamen, Burning Dead, Balrogs, Diablo, Ghould Lords, Imps, Baal.

Protect the Cold Sorcie from: Cold-Enchanted bosses, Holy Freeze aura bosses, Bone skeletons, Vipers, The Summoner, Izual, Mephisto, Frozen Creepers, Baal.

Protect the Lightning Sorcie (takes precedence over conflicting duties!) from: Lightning-Enchanted bosses, Holy Shock aura bosses, all Spitters, Horror undead, Lightning Spires, Gloam-type ghosts, Zakarum Priests, and Storm Caster types, Bats, Mehpisto, and Diablo's LBOD.

Protect the Poison Necro from: mummies (all types -- and only when not protecting the sorcies from more dire threats), Plague Bearers, Maggots, Poison-throwing cats in Lost City, River Hydras, Andariel

Note: Sirian and the EST, which included IIRC Jester and Spiderdrake, play tested the team variant. He went through a number of revisions of the rules before the final rule set was published as "not a draft anymore." I don't know when or what, as I did not play on the EST. Ask Jester, he may remember that far back.

Adapting the rule set balanced for the pre LoD environment to the LoD environment might be pointless given mercs, immunities, charms, rune words, and a whole host of other factors.

Or, it might be a whole lot of fun.

[gekko]

I remember distinctly a post on this very forum (the old ones, of course) by Sirian with new(er) rules for an LoD version of the EST. Can't recall if it was for 1.09, though that's rather moot considering this group is looking at 1.10, so oh well. This thread included rules for several new characters to be selected for the EST, including a druid and an assasin (obviously more than 8 possible characters available -- it gave a few more choices for the non-sorc characters).

If anyone happens to recall the thread I'm refering to, or has a copy of the rules I'm refering to, I'd very much appreciate having them linked or emailed to me.

I mostly suggested the EST as a good source for info to consider other character classes than the three sorcs, seeing as the original EST was for an 8 player team centered around the green-robed ladies.

[Occhidiangela]

Sirian developed it for "4 to 8 players."

Don't remember the post you refer to, sorry, and I think that spell timers put a damper on the Sorcie for many players.

With that in mind, why not be the fellow who writes the 1.10 version of Elemental Strike Team, or rather, "Sorcies rule, you shall all serve me" rules for 1.10

Become famous!

[FaaipDeOiad]

I shouldn't think it would be that hard to change to fit LOD.

The basic idea revolves around the three sorcs and a poison/curse necro, to represent the four elements. These are obviously the required chars, and you could have up to four others from there. I'd say you'd just pick the thing which each class can do that nobody else can, hopefully related to elements somehow, and design each character around that.

The Barb would be a tank using war cries and those Combat Masteries skills not related to weapons, such as Iron Skin and Natural Resistance. The Paladin would be limited to auras only - I guess Meditation would be the most popular one. The Druid would be an elementalist. It gets tougher from there as I have no idea what to do with an Assassin, I guess it would have to be traps, and it would be hard to balance the Amazon so that she wasn't overpowered compared to the other non element chars.

Mercs would have to be banned altogether to stay true to the original idea, also. I guess this is like the original EST for the most part, just simpler and including an extra act and two more chars. I'm not sure "balance" is necessary, since in the original EST the Sorcs did 90% of the killing anyway.

[Obi2Kenobi]

The barb could instead use beserk for magical... unless the necro uses the bone spells. :)

[Sheep]

Dibbs on Hector the Protector! :)

I can play mostly on Friday and Saturday nights, and I AM willing to get up at six AM (Eastern time) for an hour of play. :P