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Hullo.
In ideal circumstances, 6 characters able to play together at all critical times, keep up with each other in terms of leveling, and ... max all three resistance auras, etc., is more optimistic than a 5 year old's endeavors to become President of the United States. See what I'm saying? And I'm trying to put this lightly.
Just as a cursory critique, I would suggest you shoot for 3-4 people in this party, just to keep things within the realm of execution.
I think the sorc is superfluous; the paladins will have more than enough damage sources for her to be necessary.
The barb is a useful, potentially devastating companion, but I think he would interfere with what seems to be a paladin fascination on your part.
Think of having each player max 4 skills by the end of their career, and having none of them overlap unless it is an attack skill like vengeance, and even then, that's only if you really need it. This will let you actually achieve your goal without severe inefficiency and probably boredom.
Remember that people don't enter act 3 normal with a holy freeze merc, or a might merc. Think of alternatives for the beginning, and realize that people have to put priority on certain skills. It wouldn't make anyone happy to realize that all your best offensive characters maxed resistance auras, and by act 1 nightmare, you have about as much physical damage boosting-capability of a group of sorceresses.
Instead of thinking of maxing things, have everyone hit level 15 with their skills, and once they do that, let them max skills you have found to be particularly expedient in the group.
Buena Suerte
In war, intelligence is the single greatest commodity.
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Hullo.
That's how I understand it too work as of now, Obi.
Buena Suerte
In war, intelligence is the single greatest commodity.
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Hullo.
Fully synergized cold sorceresses are something to be deadly afraid of, unless you're one of those goddamn Ice Cavern barneys. Ugh.
Blizzard is a skill that requires fast cast... why, you ask? It's on a timer!
Well, the best part about cold sorceresses is that the synergy includes Glacial Spike, which means that you have an almost 1.07 Fire Wall damage square of deadly pillars of ice (Blizzard) and the capability to immobilize demon ass with glacial spike right under your Blizz.
So, yeah, they're pretty awesome, despite the misconception that Blizzard hits with the effectiveness a melee enchantress.
In war, intelligence is the single greatest commodity.
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Hullo.
Not to be rude, but that is a statement of blithering ignorance. The fire tree has been and currently is a source of astounding damage and sick scaling. Lots of monsters are resistant/immune to fire, but that doesn't mean that the skills aren't effective.
Fire ball and firebolt, not even MENTIONING meteor and fire wall (and even hydra, when calculated correctly) can skyrocket in damage, easily beating many other sorceress skills. Though I'm a big advocate of Blizzard, there are many times and places for fire skills to be used.
Also, I would never, ever recommend maxed warmth, except perhaps to a player not willing to level past lvl 50 in hardcore.
I hardly see low energy low warmth investment sorcs with timered skills "preatty much screwed," and if you ever played a sorc effectively, you would too. The sole exception I see for that statement is the tweaker sorc for any untimered skill, but still, that hardly entails maxed warmth.
In war, intelligence is the single greatest commodity.
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Hullo Pren.
Lol. lol. lol.
lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.
"breathtaking." :o :lol: :D
I suppose I should have read more of the posts before replying, but that's neither here nor there. Nor in the self-perpetuating mana pool with no energy/no warmth (and I'll assume a realistic setup, instead of bahamut's x 10). Lol.
I love you! :P
Buena Suerte.
In war, intelligence is the single greatest commodity.
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09-29-2003, 06:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2003, 08:00 PM by Chaerophon.)
Quote:because without warmth a sorc is preatty much screwed because she won't be able to regenerate her mana fast enough.
This is the comment to which I am responding. It seems likely that I have been intimately involved with this game for a lot longer than you have; particularly with regards to several duelling scenes. The STANDARD duelling sorc requires absolutely NO investment in energy or warmth whatsoever and will possess well over 1000 mana and life. Often this requires superior equipment; however, it is perfectly possible to operate an energyless, warmthless sorc without two SOJ's and frostburns, however, having one of these items is quite the boon to such a sorc and frostburns are VERY easy to find . I have two duelling sorc's remaining on my accounts and both use only equipment that I have found within the game. Granted, they required a fair amount of item hunting, but nothing ridiculous. Oh yeah, of note: neither has a single point in energy, and the only reason that either of them has a point in warmth is because I ran out of other skills to max. Once one reaches a certain mana pool, one can essentially teleport endlessly around the screen (at 8fpc, 105% fast cast) without losing much or ANY mana anyways.
My favourite sorc is a blocking FO/TS style with maxed FO, TS, LM, and 15 in CM. She is level 92 and possesses NO SOJ's, as I have reserved my only one for use on another character. Through the extensive use of charms, and +mana equipment, which I have discovered over YEARS of playing the game, I have boosted my mana to approximately 650, which is further boosted by my frostburns to over 900. With my single SOJ, this total approaches 1100. Is this enough for sustained teleport use over a period of several minutes without running out of mana? Are pots allowed in duels? The average character who desires some usable inventory space and is allowed to use pots can function perfectly well - if he/she so desires - with, at best a minimal investment in energy. Now, I never said that it was "the best" way to play a sorc; however, in a duelling build that requires either maximal investment in vitality or dexterity (for max blocking), the two mana per point invested in energy is better invested in another attribute.
FO/TS Blocking sorc:
20 FO
20 TS
20 LM
CM to taste
1 in teleport
1+ in warmth if necessary; however, when your mana pool reaches a necessary size, this investment is mere gravy and not a part of the earlier game build.
Minimal points in strength
Dexterity to required level for 75% block with Whitstans
Moderate investment in Vit (legit equipment/charms can bring this number well over 1000)
NO ENERGY
Sorc vs Sorc dueller:
Same skill outlay
Minimal points in strength
Zero dexterity
As many points as possible in Vit
NO ENERGY
For future reference: throwing around that "i" word is best left to those who actually know what they are talking about.
But whate'er I be,
Nor I, nor any man that is,
With nothing shall be pleased till he be eased
With being nothing.
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Chaerophon,Sep 30 2003, 07:41 AM Wrote:The STANDARD duelling sorc requires absolutely NO investment in energy or warmth whatsoever and will possess well over 1000 mana and life. OK, since when has this been a dueling thread? I can't see how a *party* of 8 players is going to have a duel.
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Picking out a specific build that is viable with no energy is not a good way to argue this.
But, I will follow your logic...
I have a TS/Nova/FO/Static sorc (on hardcore) who has 2 jordans, frostburns, quite a few 30+ mana large charms 10 natural points in warmth and 150ish points in energy(+10ish to all skills from equipment).
She has a sick amount of mana (2300ish) along with energy shield and I STILL run out of mana consistantly when she gets going. She can go for a little while at full steam, but I couldn't imagine what she'd be like without all those points in warmth and energy.
As for this whole thread, most sorcs will want points in energy and warmth for obvious reasons, throwing us the exception (which every rule has, and even though putting points in warmth and energy isn't a rule, you should get the point. If you don't get the point then you probably shouldn't be responding to this thread) really does nothing to help in this discussion.
Do what you can about what you can do. Don't worry about what you can't help.
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My point was this: the poster made the claim that warmth and an investment in energy were absolutely necessary if a sorceress was to exist. I then POLITELY pointed out that a character could survive quite nicely without those things if it was built to do so. THAT was the point. He then proceeded to tell me that I was an idiot. Thus, I proved my point by outlining a perfectly viable build that can capably fight in hell without investing a single point in warmth OR energy.
As for your character build - a nova sorc with investment in ES is obviously going to go through mana at a faster rate than will the duelling build that I mentioned.
But whate'er I be,
Nor I, nor any man that is,
With nothing shall be pleased till he be eased
With being nothing.
William Shakespeare - Richard II
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09-29-2003, 11:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2003, 01:40 AM by Chaerophon.)
In making the claim that a sorc COULD NOT survive without an investment in warmth, the poster initiated a point of contention. I merely pointed out, politely, that a sorc COULD survive under just such conditions. That could have been it. Instead, he called me an idiot, so I continued the subthread by outlining a build that successfully utilizes just such a strategy. The argument has NOTHING to do with duelling, and everything to do with the fact that the original poster did not include warmth as a part of his build. I would argue that the sorc that he suggested could, in fact, quite easily survive without warmth if that was his/her desire. Would a point in warmth be well spent? Probably, but that wasn't my point. My point was, IT IS POSSIBLE, and for this other individual to call me an idiot was rude, uncalled for, and completely worthy of my attention.
But whate'er I be,
Nor I, nor any man that is,
With nothing shall be pleased till he be eased
With being nothing.
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Alright chaerophon, seems there was a little misunderstanding.
First of all, the guy who mainly flamed you (the12wolf) seemed to be trigger happy on this thread flaming you about your comment and the original poster about the fire tree. Pren put the flame happy poster (the12wolf) in his place and he surprisingly wasn't heard from again.
Now, as for the sorceress comment, the original comment was that the sorc cannot have a *large mana pool* without warmth/points in energy and this I agree with. 900 mana isn't very much for a sorc whose constantly using magic, teleporting, and taking shots with ES. One could argue what a "large mana pool" is, but I personally don't consider 900 mana for a high level sorc a large mana pool.
Yes, certain builds can survive without any points in warmth or mana shield such as a melee sorc or your dueling sorc, there's no one denying that. (except the flame happy wolf)
Do what you can about what you can do. Don't worry about what you can't help.
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Fair enough; sorry to be such a latecomer - I haven't looked in Atma's for a while and wasn't very impressed with that... I wasn't attacking anyone but the "flame happy wolf" anyways, so no harm done, I should hope.
But whate'er I be,
Nor I, nor any man that is,
With nothing shall be pleased till he be eased
With being nothing.
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Far be it from me to jump into the middle of a thread, but I have a no energy, one point in warmth sorceress making her way happily through hell. Admittedly it is a bit slow going compared to most builds I'm used to.
"I may be old, but I'm not dead."
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alright then :D
Do what you can about what you can do. Don't worry about what you can't help.
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10-01-2003, 02:10 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2003, 02:10 AM by Archon_Wing.)
The moral of this story: Think before you flame. :D
With great power comes the great need to blame other people.
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Quote:paladin 1
20 vigor
20 blessed aim
20 prayer
20 meditation*
20 blessed hammer*
aura = mana regen, plus life regen from prayer
merc: normal/hell act 2 defensive /w defiance (bonus to defence rating)
Quote:paladin 2
20 vigor
20 blessed aim
20 concentration*
20 blessed hammer*
aura = damage bonus for blessed hammer, and other melee characters
merc: nightmare act 2 defensive /w holy freeze (slow enemies)
Quote:paladin 3
20 resist fire
20 resist cold
20 resist lightning
20 fanatacism*
20 vengance*
aura = damage/ar/attack speed bonus for melee characters
merc: nightmare act 2 offensive /w might (damage bonus for melee characters)
Suggest Conviction over Fanatacism.
Quote:paladin 4
20 resist fire
20 resist cold
20 resist lightning
20 fanatacism*
20 vengancel*
aura = damage/ar/attack speed bonus for melee characters
merc: nightmare act 2 offensive /w might (damage bonus for melee characters)
paladin 5
Suggest you try something different
20 Holy Bolt
20 Holy Shock
20 Conviction
20 Fist of Heavens
1-10 Redemption
10 for whatever else you like
merc = normal/hell act 2 defensive /w defiance (bonus to defense rating)
paladin 6
May I suggest:
20 Zeal
20 Smite
20 Holy Shield.
20 Sanctuary
Pick 'em for the rest, Charge a good choice.
merc = normal/hell act 2 offensive /w blessed aim (bonus to attack rating)
sorc 1
20 firebolt
20 fire mastery
20 fireball*
20 meteor*
other skill possably static field?
merc = nightmare act 2 defensive /w holy freeze (slows enemies)
note: fire tree was chosen, due to huge damage bonuses possable from trang ouls
set. +18 fireball, +10 meteor
barbarian 1
OK, what are we missing here?
20 battle orders
20 xmastery (I suggest Pole Arm, long reach)
20 in WW or Berserk? pick a skill, or go all Warcries and max WarCry to stun monsters.
2o Iron Skin
20 Shout.
Add all the Defiant Mercs, and he'll be hard to hit, go Two handed Weapon.
1 Battle Command in any case.
skill = battle orders will give huge bonus to mana, and life capacity
merc = normal/hell offensive /w blessed aim (bonus to attack rating)
note: weapon type has not been decided, however the character should not use a
shield, due to huge damage bonuses recieved from party, and should instead rely on
life leach
the bonuses for all the physical damage will help with leaching
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Hey sry i haven't had time to ansewer anything latly, and i am sry about flaming cher about the fire tree, but i was talking about the high level sorc that DarkPhenomenon was talking about, Sry if i misunderstood the post and hope that you people will forgive me. I'v mainly only playede the high mana using sorc and not very many melee or dueling sorcs.
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