oddities buying (nice) charged items

[Crystalion]

You might think, by visiting the d2data website or reading the mpq that charges of Sacrifice (on Paly scepters) are skill level 10 with 30 charges and a level requirement of 7. This would be wrong.

Instead we can have no level requirement (odd--perhaps due to Sacrifice being level 1 or the fact that example was a cube made one?) with variable number of charges and variable skill level, apparently based on the ilvl (which is set from clvl).

For example, a level 99 character can buy a grand scepter from Drognan in nm with 71 charges of level *11* sacrifice.

While I'm seeing level reqs as expected for other skills (e.g. Firestorm, which is also a level 1 skill but has the "expected" req of clvl 7).

Sacrifice is a great skill in normal, because with few leech resistant monsters it is easy to wear enough leech to offset the -8% (life tap like) leech penalty at low clvls (e.g. Cathan's rings). Shopping for sacrifice weapons with a high level character potentially gets a weapon a low level character can use that is psuedo-Cruel.

But even better is if you can get a max (level 10ish) Firestorm (spiked or plain) club for your lowbie. They'll just cakewalk through act 1 and 2 with it. (Unfortunately Ort rune repair didn't restore charges in my test, so they'll need a bunch of cash--circa $461 a charge, iirc).

Other charges, like curses, telekinesis, and teleport, have well known utility. I hadn't seen anyone comment on Sacrifice (v1.10) and Firestorm.

Does any one have a pointer to better technical info on how the #charges/level is rolled? For twinking one problem is that in nightmare some of the lower base items aren't sold afaik (plain club, plain scepter) making the reqs a bit higher. Clubs, at least, can be gambled.

edit: being high enough level to gamble with max out level of skill on a charged weenie base item means you're going to see more of the exceptional version than the normal version you want (for your twink-ee). I've run a few hundred gambles of clubs/spiked clubs and seen two with Firestorm, both of which were exceptional. Based on MadScientist's gambling thread (most recent on the topic of chances exc/eli) and the affix calculator it looks like I'm a 1 in 1000 shot or worse to get nice firestorm twink club (trying for reqlvl of 7). In battle.net terms: this is a project where, assuming I had the high level char to gamble with, I'd still have to plan to burn though potentially 100 million gold to get results. For perspective, however, getting a particular *normal* set or unique is somewhere between "harder" and five times as hard (and the exc/eli ones are way way harder). That's a lot of clicking.

[Raziel]

I've noticed something like that - I used to be able to find charges of Multishot on bows in 1.09, but in 1.10 it seems just about impossible.

[adeyke]

The way to calculate the slvl, the number of charges, and the maximum number of charges is given (for 1.09) here. I haven't worked with this at all, so I don't know if it's exactly correct and if it still applies to 1.10.

Some affixes belong to specific classes and you'll see a different level requirement when holding it with that character. It seems that all charged affixes, have this feature and no other items do. To use a random item with sacrifice charges, for example, a Paladin needs clvl 1, but other classes need clvl 7. Firestorm needs clvl 1 for druids, but clvl 7 for other characters.

[Crystalion]

The way to calculate the slvl, the number of charges, and the maximum number of charges is given (for 1.09)

Empirically the Phrozen Keep info seems to match v1.10s, thanks.

Some affixes belong to specific classes and you'll see a different level requirement when holding it with that character.  It seems that all charged affixes, have this feature and no other items do.  To use a random item with sacrifice charges, for example, a Paladin needs clvl 1, but other classes need clvl 7.  Firestorm needs clvl 1 for druids, but clvl 7 for other characters.

Whoa! Excellent. Here are some comments in light of your new info...

Sadly, I've often thrown away gloves, circlets and amulets with charges, because I thought the level reqs were absurd (not realizing that for the proper class, these reqs are much much lower in some cases). This suggests that multishot bow/gloves you want for your high level character to occassionally "touch" a crowd with an effect (like PMH) is potentially useful to a level 6 Bowazon with lots of cash (provided the other level reqs on the base item and affixes don't bump it up).

A level 12 Sorc might like an emergency weapon switch staff with 50some level 7 spamable Novas (37-68 lightning damage).

But a number of level *1* twinks seem interesting (numbers approximate for ilvl 99, so "perfect" in some sense)...

Necro: Teeth (?!), 135 charges level 10: 11 teeth (max. one per target) doing 11-14 magic damage (autohit?!)
Paly: Sacrifice, 71 charges level 10: AR boost and +3x weapon damage (downside: -8% lifesteal) (Hellforge hammer might be more practical as a twink)
Druid: Firestorm, 71 charges level 10: ~40 fire damage x1/x2/x3 (streams) to multiple targets (and looks cool)

Off class, these would have level 7 req. I think the firestorm is still useful for a while but the teeth are going to lose out quickly (talk about a skill that needed boosting v1.10 and got nothing, geez). Sacrifice is of interest to high level odd build classes without huge +dam% attacks who are trying to melee, as you could have a cruel of sacrifice Caduceus, which would put out damage pretty well (with some plus AR%).

Shopping for twink (low base item desire makes it hard) items is tricky. I am wondering, from Hell weapon and armor racks, do you have a decent chance to get a high (80s+) ilvl magic weenie base item, like a scepter or rod? (these could be rerolled with the 3 perf gem formula whereas it looks like no shop would ever offer that base item at equivalently high ilvls). Ironically if you get +skill automods that can ruin the reqlvl and thus the whole twink concept.

Back to non-twink utility (to recap for those who haven't followed other charges threads)...

Freezing Arrow doesn't need high slvl to be of general use as you can use lots of cold charms etc. to bump the freeze duration. Exploding Arrow is excellent for splash damage if you're high level enchanted (the Sorc Build itself probably can benefit from this as you're leveling it up).

I don't know what the Stun rules are for bosses, champs, SUs and act bosses in v1.10, but Stun might have some utility for classes without a stunning attack in some special situations.

Grim Ward definitely has use for some classes (zap that corpse before the monsters use it; get some terror; too bad it doesn't work on skelies and ghosts).

Terror, Dim Vision, Lower Resist, Life Tap, Confuse and Attract are all very attractive, as they have very desirable persistant effects making the pain of limited #charges/high repair costs bearable. All non-Necros should take a moment to educate themselves on this opportunity to make your (play) life easier.

Everyone knows about Teleportation charges, right? I also think triggering shrines/seals/door with Telekinesis (ring with charges commonplace) is a good technique to keep handy (only "wastes" one slot in your inven/stash).

Charges of Inner Sight can help you spot monsters in dark dangerous areas (huge AE effect then monsters get sparklies animating on them).

Some of the other skills may be entertaining or of limited use, but the restriction on levels and weenie number of charges ruins the practicality of them, afaik (e.g. level *1* enchant = big deal, NOT). If I'm off base here, I'd love to hear about it.

[Ruvanal]

Some affixes belong to specific classes and you'll see a different level requirement when holding it with that character.  It seems that all charged affixes, have this feature and no other items do.  To use a random item with sacrifice charges, for example, a Paladin needs clvl 1, but other classes need clvl 7.  Firestorm needs clvl 1 for druids, but clvl 7 for other characters.

Minor correction on the levels. For Sacrifice, it is req level 1 for a paladin,for other classes it is req level 7 if it appears on Scepters and req level 14 on other melee weapons like clubs or swords. For the melee weapons (etype=scep) the parameters are different and an ilvl=99 one would get slvl=7 and a max charges of 37.

You need to watch those itype and etype fields for items like this.

[Crystalion]

Druid: Firestorm, 71 charges level 10: ~40 fire damage x1/x2/x3 (streams) to multiple targets (and looks cool)

Took an enormous amount of time and gold, but I gambled for a spiked club of Firestorms with a level 99 which is level 10 and has 67 charges. Indeed, as others have pointed out, it has clvl req of 7 for characters other than Druid, for whom it has no level req.

So I gave a Horadric Cube, 60000 gold and this club to a new Druid and set him loose in players 8. He played until he was level 10 (cleared the Crypt and Mausoleum after Blood Raven). Basically anytime he runs into a tight crowd he toasts them with Firestorm. Quite fun.

But not as effective a twink as level appropriate socketed long bows (Gheed sells these with 3 sockets)--that is: gems req ~clvl for (e.g. poison) damage, at least one cold charm (and if you can: Cleglaw's gloves for slow/knockback, clvl 4 req iirc). A similar bow for the cold Rogue hireling also, naturally. And, of course, a Hellforge hammer (skip completing this quest with one of your characters in normal, and you can fetch a hammer for newbies whenever you like).

So, apart from entertainment value, the only "twink" of charged items that seems of real value to me is the Nova staff for Sorc emergency spamming (clvl 12). Certainly, like Firestorm, Teeth is probably effective, it is just that the aforementioned bow(s) are also effective, and far easier to procure.

I have a similar feeling about Fulminating and Strangling Gas potions... effective, but not more effective than the bow/hammer twink, so why bother? (actually there is a specialty use for them, because they are autohit, but that's another discussion).

Of course the very very easiest twink is simply the free-with-new-amazon javalins, as they are either 1 gold or free to repair (sell to shop, back back method) and do excellent damage for a lowbie (ranged) weapon.

Giving a new character a Horadric Cube is nice too, of course, for various reasons too numerous to mention here.

And, lastly, the power of raw cash shouldn't be discounted. Given "limitless" cash a low level character can do quite well for themselves in the shops--some of the items are spendy enough that the higher level character should buy them after the lower level character primes the shop, as the lowbie *can't* have enough gold to do the buy in some cases.

All in all it seems to me that the majority of the charged items need to be substantially beefed up to be worth thinking about (enchant probably being the most egregious/silly example).