Triple Group of people

[Obi2Kenobi]

I am making 3 different chars. They all must do quests on their own, but may level with other people. All hardcore.

1) Assassin. No Items, at all. Except throwing potions and charms. Limited amount of charms, number not yet determined. Trapsin+Shadow Master.

2) Barbarian. No Skill points, except possibly (not sure) from items. Charges acceptable. Obviously, no build.

3) Druid. No Stats, except from items. Build based around pets.

Currently, the assassin is level 12. Done quests up to Countess. How many charms should I use? None, a certain number, or a certain amount of space?

If all of these are successful, then I will try a no stats, no items necromancer.

More later. But, how far do you think they will go?

[whyBish]

Assumptions:
1.10s
S.P. or S.P. online
Minimal latency
No using esc to avoid deaths

1) Cloak of shadows & mindblast would be her friend. If she survives past duriel and gets to level 30 (DS) I expect she would do well, until dieing to an archer pack in NM outer cloister/jail. Stair traps running NM countess could also do her in. If she managed to get past that then the infector (NM) would be the next worry, but this would be a very good effort. I assume that SM would be pumped (and maybe Fade??) Merc shoice would be tough, a3 cold merc would be helpful, but gives one less tank.

2) Sounds like a warcry barb, not necessarily for the damage, but the stun. Decent battle cry would help with the A.R. if melee was still wanted. This character could go all the way, if the tedium is survived... max BO is so nice. defiance merc + shout+iron skin could also give enough defence to use two 'AmnTir' weapons, to help with killing speed (of course a lucky 'UM' NM HF drop would improve things, but lets not go there :( )

3) Toughest build of the three, can't see him getting past diablo... may reflect my limited druid playing experience... without vit investment I doubt even oak+wereform would give enough life to get into melee range (since no spells) ... I suppose you could use throwing weapons, but an unlucky lag spike would be the end.

P.S. Nice topic!

---Edit---
Just realised that #2 has no skill points!, Thought it was no combat skills... This makes a considerable difference of course... as does the 1.09. I would love to comment more but 9 hrs sleep in 4(?) days is bad for analysis :(

[Raziel]

Cloak of Shadows would keep #1 alive. She might even finish the game.

#2.. no skill points? Normal attack everywhere? No warcries? What the hell?

#3.. This one might actually work for a short while.

[Obi2Kenobi]

I forgot to mention that this is 1.09, on the realms... I am officially a moron. :P

I am thinking of Death Sentry, Wake of Inferno, Fade, Shadow Master, and all extra points into mind blast. :) Or something like that... With a cold merc, named Jarulf (I always get Jarulf, Flux, or Scorch, depending on the type), since I want my merc to obey the same laws as me. (Obviously going to be difficult for the other two builds, so maybe just not from items?)

I will probably rely on a rancid gas potion on the switch (just so I can have traps hotkeyed on my first one. :P) to help take down bosses (to stop regeneration [although not as bad as it will be in 1.10...], not as much for damage).

So, will someone help me on a charm restriction? I think I am going to start with as many as possible, and if I don't get too many close calls, slowly remove them. Should the starting restriction be based on the number of charms (so grand charms would be very important), or the space they take up (so small charms would beat grand easily)?

Also, don't expect these to get stories, like Gunter and Grizabella. Unless they make it to at least NM Mephisto. And even then it won't be as good. Or as long. Or as many screenshots. Unless they involve fires from objects. (I am on a quest to find out what fires cast shadows and which ones don't) And my people probably won't survive as long. :P

[gekko]

First off, good luck with all three. Kudos for even having the patience/nerve/guts to try these characters (I like *some* variants and I love unusal characters, but I'm cursed by a nearly complete lack of patience for ultra-slow characters :) ).

I wouldn't worry too much about charm restriction. Frankly, even an inventory crammed with charms should leave your char fragile enough to NEED a good number of charms. And, even more to the point, how much more do you have to handicap your characters to make them a challenge? I'd say your plan to start with no real restriction, then remove as you can, sounds the best.

The druid in particular will have big problems with most act bosses. Brings to mind Skeletorr's fights versus diablo. How many clay golems does it take for D to suicide himself on?

I also suspect your barb will run out of steam rather quickly in early NM. With no boost to your damage, you're going to have trouble with crowd control, leeching back any respectable ammounts of life, and even just killing things. And without using battle cry / warcry / etc, it'll be real tough being any kind of support character for your merc. Heavy investment in strength, dexterity and vitality will all be neccessary in order to hurt / hit the enemy and keep alive, respectably.

Of course, if you decide to twink the barb the difficulty will be vastly decreased (though it'd still be tricky). Heavy emphasis on +AR and +life gear would ease the strain on the stat points.

As I said, good luck with all three.

gekko

[Obi2Kenobi]

Kudos for even having the patience/nerve/guts to try these characters

Thanks. I draw my patience from people in Basin games calling me insane. :P

[Ferengi]

#1) Probably thru Act1 NM.

#2) If you find an item of life leech (or have patience beyond my imagination), probably ACT2-3 NM

#3) Might face Baal, might get lucky.


PS Surely you could put the time to something more profitable.

[whyBish]

PS  Surely you could put the time to something more profitable.

Don't let Pete catch you saying that ;)

[Pren]

I took an elementalist druid through to act 5 with lvl1 elemental skills (only using fire attacks), no summons, and only 30 str/50 vit (all rest unspent) with no charms in 1.10a

Chaos sanctuary was SO. FUN. It was majorly challenging (took at least 2 hours) but I won. I had to use a +3 dire wolf hat for the infector, because he could drop my 67 points of cyclone armor + 300hp with max resists and -6 or so mdr in a second and a half and outregenned my damage. Diablo got volcanoed.

In 1.09, i can see you finishing normal. At worst, you resort to grizzly. If you allow elemental spells, easily through normal. If you are co-oping, as opposed to soloing, I can see it going all the way through NM. In 1.09 mplayer, slvl5 spirit wolf backed by high oak sage (Or hell, the oak sage itself) can tank anything. In 1.10, maxed out grizzly lasts 15 seconds swamped.

Get a carrion vine to constantly feed yourself hp and you'll be safe if you hang back.

[Obi2Kenobi]

I was thinking possibly poison creeper, just to make sure they don't regen. :D Although that makes sense, too...

[ShadowHM]

Hi

I don't know how relevant my experience is......I did not go as whole hawg at the 'see how the crippled char can fare' route as you are planning.

But I did get a pure mostly naked Summoning Druid to mid-NM. He was vain - he wore a magic hat (circlet) and jewelry, and a cracked plain demonhide sash. That was it - no other gear. The only affixes allowed on the gear he did wear were ones that added to life or mana. He also allocated stat points to Vitality like mad.

Oak Sage, Dire Wolves, Grizzly and Poison Vine got all the skill points (except pre-requisites, of course)

Poison Vine was astonishingly effective. I just gulped potions instead of using the Carrion Vine. YMMV

Edit: I really don't know how far he could have gone. I lost him over my summer hiatus from gaming.

[Obi2Kenobi]

PS Surely you could put the time to something more profitable.

:) I did, but then the cops caught me. I was only trying to prove that cats don't stop directly above the ground and begin to spin rapidly when you strap buttered toast to their back. Or that cement mixes well in washing machines... at a landromat. Or that monkeys don't mix well with loaded weaponry. Or that...

[FaaipDeOiad]

With a cold merc, named Jarulf

What happened to Waheed? ;)

I'd say No_Items has a better shot than the others, but they all *could* make it a reasonable distance if you were lucky and failed to make mistakes. I can't see any of them making it through nightmare, however.

I don't really think a charm limit is necessary, as someone else has said, your character is hardly going to be a powerhouse, no matter what charms you pick up.

[Obi2Kenobi]

He was only temporary. Even though his prayer was usefull (my only non-"pot" way of recovering health :D ) Jarulf's freeze is so much more useful. :)

[Obi2Kenobi]

Since I am letting my assassin use throwing potions, should my barbarian use increased stamina? :) Just so I could be about the 3rd person to ever max it. :P

[Obi2Kenobi]

All of them are no twink. They must full clear everywhere. When full clearing an area for the first time, they must be alone (except for merc/summons), but after it has been cleared once, they can play there with others. The mercenaries may either use no items, or all of them can (leaning towards no items, and that is what they have all done so far).


No_Items is currently at level 25 and has done everything up the golden bird. I am wishing I had chosen wake of fire instead of inferno. Oh well. No longer has Jarulf. Jarulf was level 17 or something... got a new merc with a funny name... level 19 when hired.

No_Skillpoints is currently at level 24. He has been very lucky in the items he has found, and thus hasn't had many problems. Just finished Duriel. Not sure what merc to use... Probably blessed aim, holy freeze, or an act 3 cold.

No_Stats is currently at level 17. Finished Andariel.. I thought she would be much harder. She wasn't. He is a pure summoner; except, due to a suggestion of "random basin player," I put 1 point into werewolf (and soon bear and lycanthropy) so I can get more much needed life (and something they didn't mention, but I know about, is that I can't be 1 hit killed, since I would instead be shifted to human with 1 HP). Moreso than 3 points into oak sage would give, and it doesn't get effected by the "over 20 has no effect on the spirits" bug. Although I am not sure which spirit I should use, oak or HoW? Most things in act 5 hell will take me down even with oak, so HoW might be good (for my minions)... but Oak may allow me to survive the few stray hits easier... He is going to max out Spirit Wolf, Dire Wolf, Grizzley Bear, and Poison Creeper. How high should I put my spirit of choice in, so that I don't "waste" skill points by needlessly going over level 20 with them, using reliably findable/gamblable equipment (focusing on plus to skills)? All extra points will go into raven (currently level 1). I plan on using Dire Wolves normally (more targets), and then switch to Bear against bosses (won't get 1 hit killed, hopefully). The main problem here will be physical immunes... So having a shocking throwing dagger of piercing (I could get lucky...) would be very nice. :)