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quick question...
i always thought Redeemption was a really nice skill, and i've been considering having a paladin with Redeemption as his main aura (hence Redeemer). however i am wondering what combat skill would work best with this? the mana gains would be most useful for Vengeance/FoH/BH since they are the most mana intensive skills, but yet traditionally these are used with offensive auras. would these skills be viable with using Redeemption as the main aura?
the main skill i was wondering about was sacrifice, and if having a maxxed Redeemption would be enough to counter the self-damage sacrifice does or if not, how much additional life leech would be needed to counter the self-damage?
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09-19-2003, 07:37 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2003, 07:38 PM by Chaerophon.)
Redemption seems like a bit of an odd skill upon which to base an entire build. For one, you don't need a maximum investment in order for it to prove more than sufficiently effective. Second, it has absolutely no effect on other characters in party play (other than on the necros, who hate that it eats up there corpses), and third, well, it's more of a 'support skill' than a 'primary skill'. One to five points and you're usually fine - I've always used it as more of an afterthought than anything else - and I'm not sure that it will be all that much more fun to do otherwise...
Of course, the notion of your pally as a "redeemer of lost souls" is an interesting variant concept and if you were to focus on salvation or perhaps cleansing as well, it could definitely have its merits. Problem is, you never mentioned if that was your purpose?
But whate'er I be,
Nor I, nor any man that is,
With nothing shall be pleased till he be eased
With being nothing.
William Shakespeare - Richard II
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well i'm hesitant to say "variant." i mean i don't want it to be like, say i max cleansing to say my variant build is a "Mr. Clean" or something else where i just max a skill pointlessly just to do something different.
consider maldar the pacificist. even though its a variant build, the skills that he choose distinctly aid his build. so i was wondering if a maxed redemption would actually be worthwhile for a use with other skills. vengeance has mana leech issues, sacrifice has life leech issues, and i was wondering if a max redemption would be worthwhile to go solving the issues with synergys you can use those instead of an offensive aura to gain additional damage.
of course the main point of this all is because i think it would be interesting to say my paladin is a "Redeemer." hehe.
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A lot of Hammerdins use Redemption after a battle to replenish their mana supplies. So, they use an offensive aura to power up their cloud of hammers and then after the battle's over and their mana balls are empty, they switch to Redemption for a quick refill. I like Chaerophon's idea of using Salvation and Cleansing along with Redemption if you want to build a theme character.
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It really depends on wether or not you are playing Single Player or Multi Player.. The build is fairly strong in a multi player group that knows what it is doing and doesn't have a corpse hungry necromancer or cryomancers around. In single player, the build falls apart in Hell Difficulty simply from the lack of corpses hitting the ground fast enough to do you any good at all.
I've taken the idea of the Redeemer all the way through to Hell Act V and I must admit it has a lot of sticky weaknesses. The concept is to lay into them and drop them at a rate that allows you recouperate all loses in the middle of battle without really having to back down or touch a potion. It performs marvelously all the way through Nightmare Difficulty.
Origionally, in 1.10s, I chose to go with a two handed weapon to increase my offensive power and 'Drop Rate'. I slowly angled myself towards Vengance 20, and eventually Redemption 20. I added in Holy Freeze 10 and Conversion 10 to try and suppliment my weaknesses. This played out beautifully and did indeed ravage the enemy forces with great abandon. Amusingly, near the end of Act V Nightmare, a body popping from ice could spell the difference between mowing enemies down, or having to retreat, in single player. Once you hit hell, the whole ball of wax comes unglued, and you should hope you're playing with tolerant people, because you'll be adding auxillary elemental damage and relying on them to produce enough bodies to catch up.
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I have also been interested in redemption as it is such an interesting skill. But its really hard to create an efficient paladin, without having to bow to the uberness of the all encompassing auras conviction and fanatisism. They are simply too good, leaving almost no room for other auras to compete with them.
Just like Sanctuary, which also is a cool aura. But it simply falls apart because of the narrow specialization of it. Which is a shame, as the aura looks really amazing at high levels. All around you the ground is covered by shiny sparklies. And i bet most ppl wouldnt know what aura it is you are using when they see it for the first time. ^^
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I've got a Kuko-using pure vit Thorns Medic that only got around to using Redemption in Hell and the whole set up works pretty well. It makes up for the lack of leech from the bow's exploding arrows and recovers mana faster than Meditation when I'm spamming Holy Bolt.
If I'm not running Thorns, I'll normally be running Conviction but I also use Sanctuary - it's much more party friendly than it's given credit for purely for its disruptive knockback effect on ranged undead and OKs.
