Deadly Strike VS Chance of Crushing Blow

[bradley68]

Ok here is my question:
I have both a Lo Rune (20% Deadly Strike) and a Ber Rune (20% Chance of Crushing Blow). I want to use them but am not sure what the difference between the two is?!? Is one (Ber) best for a sword and the other (Lo) best for a bow? Do they both in essence do the same thing? (i.e. add a 20% chance for a one-hit kill) I have never really understood the difference between the two so I have been saving these runes for a long time. Any help--explanation between the differences and when and where to use them would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

BRAD :D

[gekko]

Deadly strike deals double damage. Crushing blow (in theory) takes off half of the enemy's current hit points. In practice, crushing blow has been neutered several times -- it doesn't affect bosses, is affected by physical resistance (including the 50% blanket in 1.09), doesn't scale with number of players in a game, and works at lowered effectiveness on bows, etc. Both, up through 1.09, are useless if you're a barb or 'sin, as the weapon masteries give 100% chance of deady strike instead of the listed chance they're supposed to have, and crushing blow and deadly strike cannot both hit on the same blow.

gekko

[Sporky Smurf]

Edit: Disregard this post.

[bradley68]

So in essence neither is all that great to socket in a weapon.

Thanks

BRAD :D

What do you guys usually socket in your weapons for a Barb or an Assassin??? (As far a only doing 1 rune).

I usually go for increased attack speed or MF.

[MongoJerry]

I don't know how anxious you are to use your runes, but if you can wait for 1.10 to come out, there are some terrific 1.10 runewords like 'Beast' and 'Chains of Honor' that involve Bers.

[Nicator]

Deadly strike deals double damage. Crushing blow (in theory) takes off half of the enemy's current hit points. ...

Yes, Deadly Strike doubles the total physical damage, and alike Crushing Blow is affected by physical resistance. Although real Crushing Blow effects are explained at Spirea's Diablo II Resource.

Given high hit points in monsters, which you can find at d2data.net, I would say that Crushing Blow would be a better choice, unless an IAS breakpoint with a shael or a huge damage in weapon.

[Archon_Wing]

Both, up through 1.09, are useless if you're a barb or 'sin, as the weapon masteries give 100% chance of deady strike instead of the listed chance they're supposed to have, and crushing blow and deadly strike cannot both hit on the same blow.

I think you're confusing crushing blow with critical strike. Crushing blow has nothing to do with deadly strike. It's deadly strike and critical strike that cannot work together.

Crushing blow is useful for a barb or assasin, especialy if you have a fast hitting low damage weapon. The low damage is compensated by the crushing blow taking off a piece of the enemy life. The fast speed gives a higher chance of the effect happening.

Regardless, I'd rather not socket something that gives Crushing blow or deadly strike due to the rarity of the runes. I'd rather find it on an item that has this property, such as Gullimane's face.

http://www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/weapondamage.h...#SpecialEffects

[Nicator]

It's deadly strike and critical strike that cannot work together.

Both DS and CS give a chance to double the physical damage, and for a long time I thought that a bowazon with 65% chances for CS and 35% chances for DS (Highlords amulet) was always making double damage. I'm not that sure now because someone linked me to this.

The fast speed gives a higher chance of the effect happening.

... before something hurts you, I guess you meant. ;)

Regardless, I'd rather not socket something that gives Crushing blow or deadly strike due to the rarity of the runes.

Well, IMHO, runes are for being used. I would have had no problems to use a Ber, or a Lo, on my 8/4 fanatic zealot's Lightsabre, even when he was using Guillaume's Face, Gore Rider, and Atma's Scarab (50% CB, 30% DS and Amplify Damage just to be sure), but back then, over a year ago, there were no runewords for those, and now it won't be that difficult to get them, either by cube recipes or by drops, watching the frecuency of high level runes dropping in 1.10s.

Taking, for example, a 1.10s Venom Lord in Act 4 Hell 8-players, I would be more than satisfied to add a single hit cutting 1/8 from his ~12k*8 HP :) , not to talk if I manage to curse him with AD before and make the full 1/4 :D

[Archon_Wing]

Both DS and CS give a chance to double the physical damage, and for a long time I thought that a bowazon with 65% chances for CS and 35% chances for DS (Highlords amulet) was always making double damage.

When I said they don't work together, I mean two things. First, you can't quadruple the damage by having both of them fire off. Secondly, they don't add to each other directly. They are calculated seperately. I forgot which one was calculated first, but if one fails, then the other one is checked. Having 65% critical strike and 35% deadly strike does not give you 100% chance of doing double damage. It is higher than 65%, of course. That might give you the illusion of it constantly working. :)

before something hurts you, I guess you meant.

Ok, I meant the more you hit the enemy, the higher the chance you get of getting crushing blow or deadly strike. The faster speed means you hit the enemy more.

Well, IMHO, runes are for being used.

Oh yes :D But then I've never seen a Lo or a Ber so I might just let it sit there in a collection. There are other potential sockets with much easier to find runes.

[Deadpan]

I wouldn't use a Ber in a melee weapon - if you want in-your-face Crushing Blow it's much cheaper and more effective to go for "Strength" or "Black". In any case, there's no shortage of ready made melee weapons that come with it as standard: Ribcracker is my personal favourite but Crushflange or even the Gnasher are just as viable. You won't kill anything with Crushing Blow but you'll whittle monsters down to a killable level. If your weapon's regular damage isn't up to much a few elemental damage charms should do the trick. The key is to go for a fast attack so in this respect, I'd prefer to Shael a Ribcracker rather than try for 100% Crushing Blow.

Crushing Blow does work with ranged weapons and two really cry out for it: it gets carried across in the splash damage of an auto-hitting exploding bolt or arrow so a Ber in a Demon Machine or a Kuko is very effective. Both these weapons have pierce as an additional mod so you end up with the possibility of multiple Crushing Blows with each shot into a mob or against a single monster pinned against a wall.

[Occhidiangela]

crushing blow has been neutered several times -- it doesn't affect bosses, is affected by physical resistance (including the 50% blanket in 1.09), doesn't scale with number of players in a game, and works at lowered effectiveness on bows, etc

Sorry, yes it does scale with more players in the game, the effects of Deadly Strike, which merely doubles your damage, is what will not scale. The CB removal of 1/4 of the monsters HP, with the mods per ranged and boss noted, is based on the HP of the monster in situ so it does help a bit with the large game monster HP issue. Deadly Strike, on the other hand, influences the damage your weapon does.

[Nicator]

Crushing Blow does work with ranged weapons and two really cry out for it: it gets carried across in the splash damage of an auto-hitting exploding bolt or arrow so a Ber in a Demon Machine or a Kuko is very effective.

The common method to carry CB has been Freezing Arrow, because the larger splash radio, up to 1.09d. No more splash/CB in 1.10. Just to clarify, Kuko and Demon's explosive arrows/bolts work only on normal attack.

[Bloodshrike]

The common method to carry CB has been Freezing Arrow, because the larger splash radio, up to 1.09d. No more splash/CB in 1.10. Just to clarify, Kuko and Demon's explosive arrows/bolts work only on normal attack

Que paso? Warum nicht? I based all my crushplosive builds off of high crushing blow, and utilizing kuko shakaku for the high fire damage, which is the only elemental damage that splashes with explosive arrow.
Yes, Kuko and Demon's explosive arrows/bolts only work on normal attack, but explosive arrows don't carry special modifiers/chance to cast % anymore?
I haven't made a crushplosive character in 1.10 yet, but I'm hoping it still works like it does in 1.09. Why would they nerf it? It's an IUV anyway (Intentionally Underpowered Variant)

If you wanna check them, you can look them up here.
http://d2stuff.pisschrist.net/

[Occhidiangela]

Is Evil~Teletubby on staff at your site, or did you just publish his guide? :)

Send him my warmest regards if you are still in touch.

[Bloodshrike]

Occhidiangela - lol, no. This is a site hosted by one of the regulars of Battle.net, and he put up guides by both myself and EvilTeletubby. I normally post on battle.net, but the forums were getting slow, so I wanted to diversify.

Will do though.