Stewart Vs Cramer on Daily Show, march 12.

[Jester]

Silver Lining:The price of metals has dropped dramatically now that industry has come to a crashing halt. My sculptures are costing much less to cast these days. I wonder how some long term investors, like Mr. Buffet, are doing in these times.

My guess? Badly for now, well for later. Buy at the sound of gunfire, sell at the signing of the peace treaty, as the Rothschilds used to say.

-Jester

[Hammerskjold]

Silver Lining:The price of metals has dropped dramatically now that industry has come to a crashing halt. My sculptures are costing much less to cast these days.

Hmm, I think that might be true overall, but it's the specifics and regional differences that I want to find out.
On some machining forums I read, aluminum seems to be priced fairly low. Low enough to hear some folks there saying buy stocks now if you can, because the price will go back up once this 'ecomony' picks up. Not sure if they meant paper stocks or actual bar stocks, machinists are usually precise (nyuk nyuk nyuk).

It wasn't that long ago when copper and bronze (probably related because of copper) rose at a ridonkulous rate. To the point of thieves stealing copper pipes and wires, and robbing cemetaries for bronze vases and fixtures. I had to check my eyes when I saw a Home Depot copper pipe elbow that used to cost around 50 cents, jumped to about a $1.50 in less than a week.

One company I know of that machines out boutique products, had to stop producing brass versions of their wares because they can no longer keep up with the cost of material. Now that was maybe a couple of years ago, so perhaps they were just caught in bad timing.

The demand for steel seems to be weak, at least that was the reason given for the layoffs to one plant near my area. Steel prices seems to be lower, which is good news since I am looking for some flat stock 1080 carbon steel. The bad news is, I downgraded my 'looking to buy' to 'just looking for now'. It's actually closer to 'do you have a free scrap bin?'

[kandrathe]

It's actually closer to 'do you have a free scrap bin?'

So far, as much as I can tell from my fellow sculptors, the demand for monumental work hasn't decreased to much. There seems to always be a demand for the good stuff. One of the more renowned artists I work with sells life sized pieces for between $50 and $100 thousand, which is not bad money for some artistic expression and a few weeks of grueling hard work. Table top sized pieces go for $1000 to $2000, and take a few days to a week to make (not as good an ROI).

[whyBish]

Pretty good interview on thursday night.

JS is entertaining, but rather biased. We usually get to see it between a day to a week behind which is rather impressive. PS, could someone point me to a colloquial slang dictionary. I still don't get the teabagging the whitehouse joke :unsure:

[Hammerskjold]

PS, could someone point me to a colloquial slang dictionary. I still don't get the teabagging the whitehouse joke :unsure:

Well this is kinda tricky, and this might be pushing it on the border of PG\PG13. But it's in the vein of a sex joke\expression. With that in mind, you won't find any trouble googling it. Sometimes you might even get pictures and diagrams, but warning, some of them has nothing to do with tea.

[Jester]

The plot thickens, but it's looking even more grim for team Coleman.

-Jester

[--Pete]

Hi,

. . .

Representative government at its absolute best. With luck, the issue won't be settled before the next election :lol:

Maybe what we need is a high tech solution. Like a couple of amphora and a bunch of pottery shards. Oh, and a population who can actually count.

--Pete

[Jester]

Maybe what we need is a high tech solution. Like a couple of amphora and a bunch of pottery shards. Oh, and a population who can actually count.

If you do it like the Greeks, you're just going to get fleeced.

-Jester

[--Pete]

Hi,

If you do it like the Greeks, you're just going to get fleeced.

Appropriate, given we're becoming a nation of sheep. And not a Jason in sight to save us.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

Appropriate, given we're becoming a nation of sheep. And not a Jason in sight to save us.

Colman's main argument, which hasn't really been addressed to my satisfaction, is that the method of counting some ballots was different by precinct. Now, normally you might say so what, because statistically you'd think it wouldn't matter. But, according to Coleman's side, the method of counting or not counting ballots which were selected by the precinct election judges always favored Franken. This is grist for the equal protection clause mill. It seems that the rules by which some votes get counted or do not get counted vary according to which rules let Franken win.

[Jester]

Colman's main argument, which hasn't really been addressed to my satisfaction, is that the method of counting some ballots was different by precinct. Now, normally you might say so what, because statistically you'd think it wouldn't matter. But, according to Coleman's side, the method of counting or not counting ballots which were selected by the precinct election judges always favored Franken. This is grist for the equal protection clause mill. It seems that the rules by which some votes get counted or do not get counted vary according to which rules let Franken win.

If he's relying on Bush v. Gore for that, all I can say is good luck Norm.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

If he's relying on Bush v. Gore for that, all I can say is good luck Norm.

I think he is counting on his lousy lawyers. But, I think his lawyers are counting on every vote having the same rules being applied when considering it to be legally cast or not, and that of the 10000 of so votes in question, only 415 people had the opportunity to contest the rejection of their vote.

In this case, I think equal protection means that the laws should be applied evenly. I can't even remember what the B v G case was about.

We need people in DC who are interested in serving the people, and instead we send them a fairly good late night comedian (not that the import Mr. Coleman was a better choice). The one good thing I will say about Mr. Franken is... ...he is not a lawyer. I'll just repeat what I said earlier, kakistocracy. We survived being governed by a pretty poor actor/wrestler, so I guess we can survive being represented by this clown as well. Voting these days is like needing to take your family out for a special dinner and living in a two restaurant town where the choices are McDonald's and Burger King.

[Jester]

I think he is counting on his lousy lawyers. But, I think his lawyers are counting on every vote having the same rules being applied when considering it to be legally cast or not, and that of the 10000 of so votes in question, only 415 people had the opportunity to contest the rejection of their vote.

In this case, I think equal protection means that the laws should be applied evenly. I can't even remember what the B v G case was about.

Bush v. Gore hinged on the issue of equal protection, whether different counties counting differently constituted a violation, and what then to do about it. Now, on the face of it, this makes for an avenue for Norm Coleman to challenge: absentee ballots (the 10k you mention) were counted differently than regular ones. This is, apparently, what they have argued, citing Bush v. Gore. However, there appear to be some basic issues with that. One is that Bush v. Gore is a stupendously weak precedent, since in the text of the decision itself, the majority wrote that their decision was limited to the circumstances of Bush v. Gore, and not to equal protection generally. (A humiliating moment for the supremes, but that's the way the decision stands.) Another is that absentee voting is considered a privilege in Minnesota, not a right, and therefore it would be more difficult to argue that they have identical protections from the equal protection clause. The last, if it goes all the way to the top, is that pushing too hard on the constitutional protections grates against state's rights. If the courts tell the states, in so many words, that they have to recount each and every ballot in a flawlessly identical manner, regardless of prevailing state standards, that will be a major ruling that would have far-reaching consequences. Maybe it would be a step in the right direction, but I think a lot of justices see that as dangerously close to legislating the electoral process.

They've also been hoisted by their own petard on several occasions, arguing contradictory things both in court and in public, depending on what serves the current best interests of Coleman. That's unlikely to impress either the justices or the public.

-Jester

Afterthought: It should be added that, in the aggregate, Franken is winning the recounted ballots, and will very likely continue to do so. So long as Coleman was ahead, even by a teeny bit, he could win by stopping the counting. Now that he's behind, he needs a miracle. This is why a) team Coleman has switched positions so dramatically so often, and b ) why this court battle is largely being seen as a Hail Mary pass for Coleman at this point, and not an even contest.

[--Pete]

Hi,

We need people in DC who are interested in serving the people, and instead we send them a fairly good late night comedian (not that the import Mr. Coleman was a better choice). The one good thing I will say about Mr. Franken is... ...he is not a lawyer. I'll just repeat what I said earlier, kakistocracy. We survived being governed by a pretty poor actor/wrestler, so I guess we can survive being represented by this clown as well.

Not professional politicians, not lawyers, not comedians, not actors, not wrestlers, not (by implication) clowns. So, just *who* do you think should represent us? Just who are your normal people?

--Pete

[Swiss Mercenary]

Hi,
Not professional politicians, not lawyers, not comedians, not actors, not wrestlers, not (by implication) clowns. So, just *who* do you think should represent us? Just who are your normal people?

--Pete

I can't speak for Kan, but my ideal candidates would have to have the reasoning abilities not exceeding those of a nine year-old child. Only under their control will government be small and simple enough to be understood by a layman.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I can't speak for Kan, but my ideal candidates would have to have the reasoning abilities not exceeding those of a nine year-old child. Only under their control will government be small and simple enough to be understood by a layman.

Please explain to me why an organization which has to control and protect a nation full of people can, or even should be, small and simple.

Consider: government has to deal with other nations. It has to do this on many levels, including but not limited to trade, security, defense, law enforcement, and tourism. To perform this function, it needs information, analysis, representatives from and to other nations, people able to 'sell' its viewpoint, people able to strike deals favorable to itself. It needs a military, if for no other reason to keep from being invaded and annexed. And that is just what comes to mind in the few minutes while microwaving my lunch.

But dealing with other nations is only a small part of what government needs to do. It needs to, at the least, protect its citizens from internal predators. Whether these predators are robbers, muggers, home invaders, or whether they are false advertiser, bad loan makers, etc. does not matter.

And the list of what government has to do goes on and on.

Yeah, my ideal is a world full of good, altruistic, rational, intelligent, and educated people, all of whom both know what the right thing to do is and actually do it. Then there would be no need for government. Yes, anarchy is perfection, there is nothing left to take away.

But the real world doesn't work that way. Postulating a government fit for angels and applying it to a world full of humans is a sure recipe for disaster.

So, tell me how. How to govern a real, complex, big country, with many, real, complex people, in a shrinking, real, complex world with a small and simple organization.

--Pete

[Swiss Mercenary]

But the real world doesn't work that way. Postulating a government fit for angels and applying it to a world full of humans is a sure recipe for disaster.

So, tell me how. How to govern a real, complex, big country, with many, real, complex people, in a shrinking, real, complex world with a small and simple organization.

--Pete

I... I've got nothing.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I... I've got nothing.

Sadly, no one has.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

Not professional politicians, not lawyers, not comedians, not actors, not wrestlers, not (by implication) clowns. So, just *who* do you think should represent us? Just who are your normal people?

I'd like to see a few more farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, dentists, doctors, or business owners. I really don't have a problem with some lawyers, actors, comedians, wrestlers, or even clowns if they were taking the job for the right reason.

I think Franken fits in with the Washington crowd. He doesn't pay his taxes either.

[Jester]

I think Franken fits in with the Washington crowd. He doesn't pay his taxes either.

I believe the Franken tax issue has never been that he doesn't pay taxes, but that he paid them to his states of residence (Minnesota and NY) rather than to the 17 other states where he earned the income.

-Jester