New and (Hopefully) Improved Hunter Guide

[FenrisWulf]

Good afternoon, all. As a few of you may know, long ago, I wrote a guide for a Bow-using Summoning Druid, which has in past been hosted at diabloii.net. At some point, the Druid forum there thought it would be a good idea to spruce up the guides a little bit, so I made some useful revisions, presented the guide...and no changes were made. This may be because 1.10 mania was in full swing, so the mods/admins didn't see the point in updating an old 1.09 guide.

But hey, I did do the work, so I figure that I should at least get the newest version out there (as similar as it may be to the original). Hence, the newest version of my Hunter guide is now hosted here. Please, let me know if you see any glaring technical or strategic flaws! Now that I have control over the source code of my guide, I will hopefully be more responsive to suggestions.

By the way, this is my personal web space, so apologies if it can't handle the traffic from the huge masses of curious people who want to play variant Druids...oh, wait... :D

(will be cross-posted at the Amazon Basin Druid Forum)

[Bolty]

Good afternoon, all. As a few of you may know, long ago, I wrote a guide for a Bow-using Summoning Druid, which has in past been hosted at diabloii.net. At some point, the Druid forum there thought it would be a good idea to spruce up the guides a little bit, so I made some useful revisions, presented the guide...and no changes were made. This may be because 1.10 mania was in full swing, so the mods/admins didn't see the point in updating an old 1.09 guide.

I wouldn't fault Diabloii.Net for not updating. I haven't updated any guides or hosted new ones here for the same reason: 1.10 was still in beta, changes could still be made, and I wanted to wait until 1.10 final was out and a "final" state of guides could be written before going to the effort of HTML'ing up user guides.

You'll notice as well that there have been no news posts here regarding strategy guides. Same reason. While 1.10 is in beta, I consider all strategies in a state of flux...

-Bolty

[FenrisWulf]

Heh, don't worry, Bolty, I wasn't faulting diabloii.net for anything; in fact, in general, I'm quite fond of them. I was just pointing it out to explain why I chose to host the guide on my own space instead of updating the version that is currently up.

I would have cross-posted this in the diabloii.net Druid Forum, too, but unfortunately, they have this little policy about off-site linking...I'm sure you've heard of it. :)

Word. Hope you don't mind my posting it here.

- Fenris

[Sporky Smurf]

The guide looks good. Real good. Nice and informative as always with lots of purrty pictures.

BUT CHANGE THE MELEELEMENATLIST'S BACKGROUND! Sweet [diety] that's painful on the 'ole eyes. :lol:

[FenrisWulf]

@Sporky Smurf:
Heh, yeah, you're completely right about that background. I'll change it.

EDIT: Done. More legible, if still not fully aesthetically pleasing. :)

[Deadpan]

That's one good-looking guide, Fenris!

Your original guide was the inspiration behind my own Hunter so I couldn't resist checking out where you've made revisions. These were mainly in your choice of vines:

Poison Creeper: now 1-20
Solar Creeper: now 0-1

(Pretty much how my own Hunter turned out as it happens - I picked up the idea of using Poison Creeper from a guide by Alram, by the way).

There are drawbacks playing a Poison Creeper Druid - if you don't continuously recast the vine, your frame-rate quickly disappears - but a big advantage is having monsters turn their back on you and the rest of your army. At 8 mana a cast, Poison Creeper is cheaper than recasting your Grizzly and makes a better tank if you keep it alive. Certainly effective in Nightmare but the lag starts to get a little dangerous in Hell.

That's not to say that I don't throw my Grizzly around though. In fact, what with spamming Poison Creeper and lobbing the old fur-ball around, I find myself needing the occasional Solar Creeper simply to keep my mana-ball full. Having taken the decision to actively cast Grizzly, I didn't expect to benefit from the passive life bonus from Dire Wolves which is why I've left that skill at a single point.

So, Poison Creeper at 20, Dire Wolves at 1, what else have I done differently? Nothing really, I use a Lore helm with +3 to Cyclone Armour and +Elemental Skills on a rare amulet and Grand Charm to get Cyclone Armour up around level 8 and that seems adequate so for a back row character so for the time being my druid is pure summoner as far as skill points spent are concerned:

17 Oak Sage
17 Heart of Wolverine
1 Spirit of Barbs
20 Poison Creeper
1 Carrion Vine
1 Solar Creeper
1 Ravens
1 Spirit Wolves
1 Dire Wolves
20 Grizzly

In Act 2 Hell at level 73 I've got 2 points saved up.

Equipment: your list is pretty extensive but you've left out Dark Clan Crusher - I use it on my weapon switch to buff my spirits up to 20 (with the +1 from Lore) and it's pretty effective in it's own right against Fallen in Act 1 especially with Heart of Wolverine active. Other than that I've Neffed a Kuko so I can use Blood Gloves. Low, low stats on the auto-hitting bow mean I've been able to go pure vit: it really is teh besto.

Merc: I went with a poor man's lightning hose Rogue - shop-bought +2 skills short war bow, Lore helm. Does the trick.

Strategy: I use your Oak-healing trick a lot but I've also developed a trick of my own - alternating between Oak and HoW, it's possible to have both auras active simultaneously. Heck, I've even been able to get Spirit of Barb's aura active on top. I routinely spirit-stack before tripping urns and it's a tragedy that I won't be able to continue doing so when the patch comes out.

All this chews up the mana though which, coupled with regular castings of Cyclone Armour, Poison Creeper and Grizzly makes for even more game time for Solar Creeper. Other than that, I'm wearing some vulpine gear (damage taken goes to mana) so as a last resort I'll deliberately take a hit to keep my mana-bulb full. When I'm using this tactic, I'll normally try to have Spirit of Barbs up so at least I'm dishing out some hurt in response. The damage returned is nowhere near enough for a level 30 skill but at least I've been able to get some mileage out of it: I've seen off both Diablo and Baal in Normal using just Poison Creeper and Spirit of Barbs with Oak to heal. Hmm, maybe that's where I'll put those skill points.

[ShadowHM]

Thanks all over.....

First, for making the guide in the first place. My love affair with bows goes a long way back, and I had much fun building two versions of a Hunter after reading your original guide.

Second, thanks for re-doing the guide.

Third, thanks for the link. :) Having recently lost all Favourites to a hard drive crash, your timing is impeccable for letting me get that one back.

[Occhidiangela]

A few queries on your inventory picture.

Do you keep your TP scrolls in your belt? :) I have a char or two who do that, and I like the faster TP creation that set up allows.

Why a tome of ID scrolls when the inventory is full? :)

For the price of an inventory slot saved, I'd recomment dumping the arrows and the ID scrolls and putting the Cube in the Inventory, upper left. That can hold up to three extra arrow quivers for reloads, though you do have to be quick about it. It also allows a place to stick neato things that drop while keeping your charm set up maxed out.

The other option for arrow reloads, one I use on Bow Amazons, is to have a second Bow in the "Weapon II slot" and always keep that slot full with "picked up" arrows. When primary bow ammo indicator turns orange to red, a quick Weapon Switch, pick and switch to refill, and you are back in business. The next bunch of arrows that drop, a quick "W", pick it up, and "W" back to best bow. Since the Hunter is a second row guy, all that switching is low risk, though in HC you still have to pick your spots. (i.e. not when a champion pack of Frenzytaurs in Hell have just cropped up!) The Tactical TP can be a better choice now and again.

I agree completely on the knockback and the joy of Hit Power Gloves.

Another arrow reload option is to just TP to town and buy some, but I find that gets tedious, personally.

YMMV, and by the way, Nice Guide. Ya done good.

A few notes:

Death's Gloves and belt gives CBF, 15% res all, and 30% IAS. Nice for early going, my ranger paladin used that through the end of NM. The low slot count can be a nuisance.

I get the feeling that in 1.10s, the aura flashing of Druid Hunters will go away the same way that Paladin Aura flashing went: the way of the Plains Buffalo. ;)

Keep up the nice work, and thanks for your efforts.

[Guest]

they have this little policy about off-site linking...I'm sure you've heard of it.

actually they're much lighter on this now, i don't think anything would happen if you link now. actually...*tries it*

[FenrisWulf]

I'll be making a few replies in this thread, so apologies for the multi-posting...this threaded structure still weirds me out a bit. :P

@Deadpan:
Thanks! Your write-up about your Vines and Spirits Druid was the inspiration (well...model, I suppose, since I didn't make too many changes) for my Drunkard, who just achieved Slayer status at the ripe old age of clvl 30, so it's a pleasure to have returned the favor. :)

There were a few other small changes to the guide, but Vines definitely got a big make-over. Both your and Alram's builds led to my shift towards considering Poison Creeper as, at least, a useful addition to the squad. I never had really considered it much as a tank, though; my main thoughts were that it would augment non-physical damage (slightly) and prevent monster regeneration. I'll have to play around with it, though. One of the most annoying things about trying to buff up your Poison Creeper is that Vines don't get Spirit benefits (I'll get into this when I digress into my Drunkard build later).

Good skill layout, if a bit unorthodox (low-HP Grizzly, but hey, it fits your style perfectly, so I can't complain). Heh, I have 22 skill points saved up on my Hunter. :P Haven't decided what to do with 'em yet.

Good point about the lack of mention of prebuffing equipment (though I do have a section on prebuffing in the strategy section). I'll include it.

Spirit stacking! I absolutely meant to include that in the guide somewhere; I can't believe I left it out. If I remember, it's about 8 seconds for a Spirit Aura to wear off, and around 2 seconds for a new one to kick in? That's how I usually manage my Oak healing: unsummon Oak Sage, count slowly to 6, resummon Oak Sage.

Okay, on to my Drunkard, as I have a few questions for you. :) As I said, he achieved clvl 30 on the way to finishing Normal. His skill placement looks something like this:

Oak Sage: slvl 9
Heart of Wolverine: slvl 1
Spirit of Barbs: slvl 1
Poison Creeper: slvl 22 (+2 from Pelt)
Carrion Vine: slvl 1
Solar Creeper: slvl 1
Ravens: slvl 1

Now, why am I moving into the middle Summons branch? Because I hadn't realized that Spirit of Barbs doesn't catch its own aura (or so it seems, at least)! This essentially breaks my original plan, as my Poison Creeper won't get barbed, so I had intended to let the SoB take a beating (and in turn damage the attacker) while I stood back in relative safety. Unfortunately, I can't tank at all (no stat build), thus I need to shift focus over to Spirit Wolves to provide my shielding and damage return. 5 in Spirit Wolves, then points to Oak/SoB/Dire? Already in Act I NM, Poison Creeper is starting to lose its potency, so I'm hoping that my Alcoholic Wolves can bring up the slack. :) Do you purely use yourself as a tank when summoning SoB?

[FenrisWulf]

Gogo gadget double post! While it violates the threading principle, I'll have a few directed replies here.

@ShadowHM:
Heh, and thanks to you for reading my guide and making me feel useful. :)

@adamantine:
I dunno, I'm pretty sure that Elly wanted to ban me after my initial spot of off-site linking (TheDragoon's guides...so useful), so I probably shouldn't risk it. :D

@Occhidiangela:
Yes, I do keep my TP scrolls in my belt; I really should do that with all of my characters, but for most of them, inventory space isn't quite so much of a concern. ID scrolls, though...well, in case I find any magic item that I desperately need to identify (blue ethereal Feral Axe!), it's usually more convenient to drop a few charms, pick up item, identify using tome (ethereal Feral Axe of Craftsmanship :(), and toss the offending item, without needing to waste too much time dashing to camp. You're right, though, it is a waste of space...on my Artimentalist (who has 10 Natural GCs, thus absolutely no tome space), I moved 4 ID scrolls into my belt, too, but it's not quite the same. Carrying the Horadric Cube is a very good idea, since I have plenty of stash space. I'll try it.

My second Bow is Kuko Shakaku, and I always keep it full on arrows, so that I can better handle large, crowded groups or PIs whenever they happen to stop by. But yes, the weapon switch also serves as a good place for storage (why, oh why, can't I dual-wield arrows, though? :D).

Death's Hand and Sash...good call. I'll add them.

I had heard that, about Aura flashing! Why, Blizzard?! That's definitely one of the coolest tactics I've seen coming out of the Summoning Tree. :(

But anyway, thanks a bunch for the suggestions.

[Guest]

I had heard that, about Aura flashing! Why, Blizzard?! That's definitely one of the coolest tactics I've seen coming out of the Summoning Tree.

they did it to *fix* conversion/mindblast, which is *so* used much and is *so* important. the stickyness is now (in 1.10) 2 seconds as to *fix* it.

funny thing is that time is still enough for you to get killed by your own thorns when monsters un-convert while you're zealing them.

[Nadreck]

I thought there was supposed to be a seperate fix to that. As in "monsters now lose auras when converted or unconverted".

[Deadpan]

No stat build? Scarey! No wait, you're softcore so you can take liberties with your hitpoints.

My druid's hardcore and every statpoint goes into Vitality as soon as he levels. This makes him a bit more robust and easily able to tank if the need arises. With his vulpine gear and Oak to heal, he uses pots so rarely that two rows of his belt are dedicated to id and tp scrolls. Incidentally, Spirit of Barbs definitely returns damage when hit even though Poison Creeper doesn't.

For the record, I maxxed Poison Creeper, finished pumping Oak, then HoW and only started out down the middle branch of the Summons tree once I topped out both spirits at 20 after adders and needed somewhere else to put my skillpoints. I didn't get my Grizzly until level 50 and late Nightmare. The Poison Creeper/Grizzly combination works surprisingly well even in Act 5.

That said, most of my kills come from my druid and his merc so if you're struggling in NM, it's the monster curve that's getting you down. At level 30, I was still making hay in Normal and kicking my heels until I was old enough to use a Kuko and my cold rogue merc didn't get her lightning hose until much later.

One thing I did do, though, was build up a pretty extensive collection of pelts so I'm a bit surprised that the best you've managed is a +2 to Poison Creeper. Even now when I'm playing another character I'll pick up anything that drops. Perversely with this build, Jalal's Mane falls quite a way short of being uber - a good rare or "Lore" is much better. "Radiance" with +3 to Cyclone Armour works quite well as well.

[Guest]

I thought there was supposed to be a seperate fix to that. As in "monsters now lose auras when converted or unconverted".

fix = blizzard fix = quick easy change = 2 sec duration instead of 8 = "monsters now lose auras(after 2 secs instead of 8, thus the avg person/programmer doesn't notice) when converted or unconverted"

[FenrisWulf]

@Deadpan:
It's true, having no stats certainly does make life a little bit more interesting, especially when trying to find fashionable clothes that I'm strong enough to wear ("Oh, these blue sweatpants! So heavy! And my baseball cap! Too...weak...to carry!"). :) Plus, having 150 unassigned stat points just looks cool. And while I could dash around all willy-nilly since I'm in SC, I'm almost positive that I didn't die with this guy all through Normal.

Oh, you're essentially right; SoB does return damage (just tested a bit more). But hmph, that's annoying: the Spirit doesn't catch his own aura for a few seconds, meaning that you can't cast him into a crowd and have him immediately work. The reason that I wasn't able to notice that he was returning damage was because he was dying too quickly to become thorned... <_<

How much are you wearing in the way of +skills? I've been playing my Drunkard untwinked, and he hasn't been too lucky in the MF arena, aside from a pair of Bloodfists. Perhaps I should beat up on Norm Meph a bit more. Same thing goes for Pelts; I assure you that I pick up every Pelt I see, but this +2 Poison Creeper (with +2 WW and +3 Lyc, I think) is the best I've seen. I have found the runes for Lore, though...I keep forgetting about Runewords. :) Gogo gadget Grey Pelt with 2 sockets, +3 Poison Creeper, and perhaps +3 Grizzly!

One strange (or different) thing about my build is that the actual Druid involved has minimal offensive capabilities. All the work is going toward his Creeper and his Merc, and the Merc's not too handy, anyway. I'll probably switch him out.

But yeah, thanks a lot for the help. Let's see if I can salvage this character yet. :)

[Deadpan]

What merc are you using, Fenris?

I decided I was lacking a ranged elemental attack so I experimented with an Act 3 fire mage since I could twink one up with +6 skills and, with Oak healing, had a means to keep him alive. Scorch ended up pretty devastating with his beefed-up Inferno but he was effectively a one-trick pony so I re-hired Wendy at level 1 - I can run her at +1, +2 or +3 for a full variety of attacks with what she's found.

My druid's semi-twinked: I've swapped in some ammies and the odd pelt but the only significant piece of equipment is the Kuko. Having said that I have been lucky with drops: a Ribcracker and a Dark Clan Crusher, either of which give him a decent melee attack if he runs out of arrows. Having said that, he did spend a lot of time wearing a Tarnhelm and full Angelic whilst I levelled Wendy so he did spend a lot of time MFing. Some small charms too.

Since entering Hell, I've basically been running around with +3 to all skills, +6 to Cyclone Armour although if I re-equip I can just about reach +8 to summons with individual skill adders on my choice of pelt - I used +3 Dire Wolves, +1 HoW "Lore" for quite some time - but I much prefer having extra resists on tap. I've also replaced his MF charms with cold damage ones to slow the monsters down a bit.

The trick with Spirit of Barbs is not to cast it into a crowd but to lob it beyond a mob. Its homing instinct will bring it back but at least this way it gets trapped by the monsters rather than leading them to you. This tactic also gives the aura time to activate. If it gets killed too quickly, I normally cast HoW in its place and run away - with my skillpoint allocation it's a pretty decent tank and doesn't spark LEBs like my Grizzly does.

[FenrisWulf]

:D At the moment, I'm using an Act III Cold Mage, because a) I wanted to try one out, and B) I was in Act III when I decided it might be a good time to pick up a mercenary. Terrible reasons, I know; in fact, the Cold Mage is annoying in several ways, mainly that he always shatters corpses, and he doesn't return damage very well. But I'm keeping him around for right now, as I wouldn't mind switching to a Holy Freeze merc later on. Though you're right, a Fire Rogue wouldn't be too bad, either.

Great idea with SoB! I'll try that out.

[Bolty]

Word. Hope you don't mind my posting it here.

Of course not! Off-site linking is considered good and fine here. Unless someone's just spamming or the site linked to is garbage, which yours most definitely is not.

-Bolty

[Deadpan]

With the patch out, my druid is now a high-level mule. Maybe. I took him out for a run last night and this is what I found:

Oak healing no longer works. :(
Spirit stacking no longer works. :(
Wendy's lightning hose no longer works. :(

My Grizzly does a lot more damage. :)
Poison Creeper no longer kills my frame rate. :)
I can leech with my Kuko. ;)
Ravens blind monsters. B)