Fully buffed? On I get the rare occasion to be "fully" buffed, I have somewhere around 7-8k health. I regularly have 6k-7k health with any buffs.
What does he have base though? That's what matters. Buffs.. I can take or leave. Can't be relied on.
In controlled situations, only if you rush. Ever hear of waiting for party to grab aoe aggro? Mages can space their aoe out. I cannot.
In a run away trash mob (non-elite, say bugs or skeletons), mages may death of a thousand cuts at will (or four IAE's). You have the option of running aoe, leading toward or away from healers, whereas warlocks stand their ground and await playing staring games with death.
You completely ignore the mobility and versatility cost, the lower damage cost, the inability to escape, the higher mana costs, the health cost, the time cost, the talent point cost, the interrupt cost, the attention spread across a million mobs costs, the fact that easily over half the warlock's luster is in his pet, and pet die fast and don't come back easily, long preps, and cooldowns on an warrior's level (yes we have 1 hour cooldowns too), and cast times... oh the cast times. Our regular day to day summoning spell is 10 seconds
Instances. Harumph. That's only 10% of the game until level 60, and even then its still only half the game.
If you want a full list of gripes, go to the warlock forums. I'll even save you the trouble and link one of the posts.
Over here
He has gripes that I don't agree with, but that's still more than I care to bother listing here.
You've already listed yourself how various warlock skills are 'adequate' for various tasks, but obviously not 'the best' or nearly as reliable. Seduce is very fun to play with, and I'll use it whenever it applies but enemies cannot be chain charmed without interruptions in between from a single target.
Fear? That's incredibly risky in an instance when you're not extremely careful. I can go down the list... but ugh. Which skills are you jealous of again? I already showed you how hazardous unbuffed warlock hellfire is.
Completely ignoring mobs that spawn mid-battle. Whoot, narrow-thinking.
Play alliance, no way. I hate paladins and their cheap cleanse. KoS Pallies!. Only synergy you've shown me so far is the uninterruptable (with destruc spec) one. Blessing of Kings can actually bug Demonic Embrace, giving warlocks LESS stamina.
Oh yeah... mages don't have to deal with ignorant bastards like named albino
As for destruct locks... I'm telling people not to ask for Destruct locks, not discouraging warlocks from being them. If you see an non destruct lock, and want a "mage-plus" go get a mage. Don't ask for respec.
Locks are only better than mages in certain areas IF and ONLY IF they are spefically specialized to do so. You certainly dont expect frost mages to do better damage than Fire/Arc mobs most of the time, do you? You don't see the marginal cost of goign destruct as opposed to much needed versality of demonology or longetivty of affliction, or taste of all worlds hybrid build trees.
As for utility, we are a martha stewart class. If you want pure utility, and finally understand all its costs, play a lock--preferably horde and on a pvp server. If you want oodles of forms of damage, reliable CC, fire and forget skills, sick damage, and magical damage mitigation skills, play a mage.
EDIT:
For a better perspective of warlock gripes, read the haikus here:
Haiku
What does he have base though? That's what matters. Buffs.. I can take or leave. Can't be relied on.
Skandranon,May 7 2005, 01:25 PM Wrote:The first IAE generally grabs all aggro,
[right][snapback]76568[/snapback][/right].
In controlled situations, only if you rush. Ever hear of waiting for party to grab aoe aggro? Mages can space their aoe out. I cannot.
In a run away trash mob (non-elite, say bugs or skeletons), mages may death of a thousand cuts at will (or four IAE's). You have the option of running aoe, leading toward or away from healers, whereas warlocks stand their ground and await playing staring games with death.
Quote:Pay...in what?
You talk about paying higher costs all the time, but I don't see any. What costs? Shards are easy to come by in instances; everything else is just skill.
You completely ignore the mobility and versatility cost, the lower damage cost, the inability to escape, the higher mana costs, the health cost, the time cost, the talent point cost, the interrupt cost, the attention spread across a million mobs costs, the fact that easily over half the warlock's luster is in his pet, and pet die fast and don't come back easily, long preps, and cooldowns on an warrior's level (yes we have 1 hour cooldowns too), and cast times... oh the cast times. Our regular day to day summoning spell is 10 seconds
Instances. Harumph. That's only 10% of the game until level 60, and even then its still only half the game.
If you want a full list of gripes, go to the warlock forums. I'll even save you the trouble and link one of the posts.
Over here
He has gripes that I don't agree with, but that's still more than I care to bother listing here.
You've already listed yourself how various warlock skills are 'adequate' for various tasks, but obviously not 'the best' or nearly as reliable. Seduce is very fun to play with, and I'll use it whenever it applies but enemies cannot be chain charmed without interruptions in between from a single target.
Fear? That's incredibly risky in an instance when you're not extremely careful. I can go down the list... but ugh. Which skills are you jealous of again? I already showed you how hazardous unbuffed warlock hellfire is.
Quote:The communication required is generally only that the mobs get pulled past the correct position. It's not that complicated.
Completely ignoring mobs that spawn mid-battle. Whoot, narrow-thinking.
Play alliance, no way. I hate paladins and their cheap cleanse. KoS Pallies!. Only synergy you've shown me so far is the uninterruptable (with destruc spec) one. Blessing of Kings can actually bug Demonic Embrace, giving warlocks LESS stamina.
Oh yeah... mages don't have to deal with ignorant bastards like named albino
As for destruct locks... I'm telling people not to ask for Destruct locks, not discouraging warlocks from being them. If you see an non destruct lock, and want a "mage-plus" go get a mage. Don't ask for respec.
Locks are only better than mages in certain areas IF and ONLY IF they are spefically specialized to do so. You certainly dont expect frost mages to do better damage than Fire/Arc mobs most of the time, do you? You don't see the marginal cost of goign destruct as opposed to much needed versality of demonology or longetivty of affliction, or taste of all worlds hybrid build trees.
As for utility, we are a martha stewart class. If you want pure utility, and finally understand all its costs, play a lock--preferably horde and on a pvp server. If you want oodles of forms of damage, reliable CC, fire and forget skills, sick damage, and magical damage mitigation skills, play a mage.
EDIT:
For a better perspective of warlock gripes, read the haikus here:
Haiku