05-04-2005, 03:26 AM
Skandranon,May 3 2005, 04:40 PM Wrote:Make the warlocks stand on top of each other and have them both cast Hellfire. I don't understand the problem. One warlock should start before the other in order to let the healer heal only one target.
They'll just be interrupted. It's not the healing so much (you can use a fire protection potion and then the healing is no worse than the mage's) as the inability to use the AoE for any effective length of time. Who cares about the potential DPS of an AoE if it can't be applied?
Quote:Mages need healing too. All warlocks need is a little assistance with the self-damage and the interruption and they're golden. The point I'm making is that nothing anyone can do can make the mage better. Even if everyone was *trying*, there's simply nothing they can do to help.
So because the mage requires less help to deliver his AoE he is somehow less effective at it? I'm not buying it :unsure:
Quote:Paladins are best at:
1.) Party aggro control. Blessing of Salvation is one of the most powerful buffs in the game. No other class has any ability to reduce the aggro someone else puts out.
2.) Debuff removal. Nothing says debuff removal like a Cleanse: nothing else comes close.
3.) Resistances. No other class has the ability to instantly give the entire party a +60 resistance buff to whatever they're fighting.
4.) Off-tanking. In a 5-man situation, the off-tank needs to be able to hold one mob's aggro and survive with little or no attention from the party's healer. Paladins do this like no other class can.
I don't know what you were expecting, though, since I figure you do all these things while playing your class already. You probably folded them all into the heading of "can survive" but that's far too broad, especially when it's being compared against "best CC" which is a highly specific category. I ask you only to notice, while playing, the specific benefits which you bring to a party.
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You make some good points, I think I probably take blessing of salvation for granted. All of these together in my opinion don't even add up to "best CC", with the exception I guess of some very specific places with cleanse. As you're focusing on endgame only I'll grant that cleanse is powerful. I suppose I did lump in offtanking with can survive alone. What's better though -- ability to completely and (nearly) instantly remove a target from combat, or ability to take a melee mob and possibly keep it busy?
Who'd be preferred in a party without either, a mage or a paladin? Has counterspell been mentioned in this thread? Who else can do that nearly as effectively? A priest with 21 points in the shadow tree? A warrior who must be in melee range, be correctly equipped and have sufficient rage?
Probably just my own biases from having played a paladin, but it seems to me that:
best CC + best AoE > your paladin four any day
(I'm still not buying the warlock AoE > mage AoE even though I'm not convinced by those arguing for mobility).
But I'm not at the endgame so my experience is more limited. Thanks for giving me some things to think about with respect to my paladin.