Is the (Shadow)Priest the better Mage in WOW?

[Drasca]

If you're going to answer this, answer to it in PvE terms.  You win the PvP argument, I'm not going any further there. [right][snapback]75614[/snapback][/right]

All right. I didn't notice you only considered PvE.

What do mages bring to a group?

Plenty. Extended rebuffable CC, AoE, Ranged DPS, Buffs that extends battle, snares, immobilizers, ability to keep enemy busy.

We don't have the best DPS (rogues) or even the best ranged DPS

PvE, all most hold back, or use alternate skills (not damage) if they want to play teamwork. Rogues won't be using combo points for damage until finishing... they'll be kicks, cheap shots, eye gouge, kidney shots, crippling poisons, etc.

Our main strengths are burst damage and *running away*, both of which are beyond worthless in any kind of instance.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Running battles are among the most important ones. Yes there are pawns which hold the line, but enemies move. When (not if) there are stray enemies which will chase your healer, or caster, you must do make a kiting skirmish. I've seen mages dance around skeletons, bugs, rats, ogres, lizards, and keep their attention while the rest of the ranged attacks pound on the enemy. In addition, that zap zap zap power is just what's needed to eliminate any non-boss mob fast enough to get 'out of combat' to drink again.

In solo PvE, the first is necessary to win before you get chewed to death and the second is only if you make a bad pull.

Only if? That's a matter of when. Body pulls happen. Bugs spawn. Rats spawn. Skeletons spawn. They don't always go for the Baron, they go for the healers in back too. I'm completely jealous of the zap zap zap of running AE while I have to run to position, hestitate to check if I can attack it all, spend oodles of mana and health to potentially finish off the skeletons while mainly just getting myself killed. I'd much rather zap zap zap, frost, steal aggro, blink, zap zap some more after gaining range advantage, all the while running with minor speed increase enchant on my boots.

The mage's role in an instance right now is to provide the worst DPS of any "DPS class".  And to vend water and turn things into sheep (and people can buy mana biscuits)

Ha! No one wants more than one warlock in their party here (unless they're nuts or a very organised 40 man raid). Not even me half the time. There are just too many stinky warlocks. In a large scale raid... there's no holding back from damage. In 5 man, everyone holds back until the enemy is finished. I don't CoS + Shadowbolt spam until the mob is going to be dead in 10 seconds. Why would a mage open all out? That's just gets the pyro's kicked out of groups.

I think you underestimate the value of that poly ranged long duration CC in PvE. There's only one place warlocks get to use their primary CC (fear) consistently in instances, and that's by General Drakkar's bodyguards.

Do rogues get to sap all the time? No. Priest MC? No. Hunter Freeze Trap? No. Druid sleep beast? Do I try to use it all in Dire Maul north if I have a party, or making a party? YES! How important is that Poly of yours? Extreme. Useable on so many targets... and there's a synergstic effect I use with poly/saps. I curse of doom sheep'ed targets. Especially with sheeped casters who have low hit points, by the end of battle. A minute later, that last sheeped caster is at half or lower health and easily polished off by your party even at low health / mana yourself.

You underestimate your mage and its place in party's Skan. There's this and many other synergistic tricks to combine skills and own PvE. Poly/Doom is just the freshest to come to mind.