Spangles rearranged her talents after the Big Patch, tweaking and fussing to maximize her defense capabilities. She has raided many times with her guild, and although she is still pretty green, the fog of war is thinning for her and patterns are emerging.
The discussion here is of the defense stance warrior in a raiding environment, 10 members or more. This has some relevance to 5 man dungeon groups, but is probably less relvant to soloing or pvp.
Definition of defense stance
"Decreases damage taken by 10% and damage caused by 10%. Increases threat generated."
Summary
There is no compelling reason for a warrior to leave defense stance in a raid environment. An artistic performance might begin with thunderclap and end with execute, but that takes time and rage. If the warrior pulls, the aggro will accrue entirely to him automatically at the beginning. At the end, his durability and aggro lock will have been of more value to the group than a chance at a juicy crit. The warrior doesn't beat things to death by himself on a raid. Massive support DPS is everywhere. Rogues crit for a living, casters nuke with many times the DPS that any warrior can reliably generate. The warrior holds the mob in position where the group can dispatch it. This is best done in defensive stance.
Skills and Talents
Skills are listed by position on the button bar, which is just habit. Supporting talents are listed with the skill.
1 attack: auto by default, "T" toggles
This makes for problems when immediately adjacent mobs are shackled, since the next swing after the current target dies is taken automatically. Autoattack reduces thrashing, however, and seems to be the easiest way to find a new target quickly.
2. sunder armor, 12 rage: "reduces target armor by 450, can be applied up to 5 times, lasts 30 sec"
talent - improved sunder armor, 3/3 points: "reduces cost of sunder armor by 3 rage points"
Concillian's analysis of accelerating returns for sunder armor makes this the primary attack after a taunt unless shield bash is needed.
3. revenge, 5 rage: "instantly counterattack enemy, follows block, dodge or parry"
talent - improved revenge, 3/3 points: "40% chance to stun target for 3 sec"
4. shield block, 10 rage: "increases chance to block by 75% for 7 sec"
talent - improved shield block, 3/3 points: "block additional attack"
talent - shield specialization, 5/5 points: "increase blocking 5%"
Gnollguy pointed out that revenge lights up after your block or parry, not the mob's. This and the fact that revenge/shield block use relatively little rage make this combo the foundation of the defense spec attack.
5. concussive blow, 15 rage: "damages, and stuns for 5 sec"
talent - concussive blow, 1/1 point: "damages and stuns opponent, 45 sec cooldown"
This attack obiviates charging or intercepting. Charging may surprise players in pvp, but a mob always knows when you arrive. You may as well walk up to the mob and concuss him in your own good time. Its value is in the ensuing downtime, not the extra damage that charge might do. The problem with charge/intercept is that it generates little or no aggro lock. Time and again Spangles has watched other warriors charge a mob at the front of the group, and has seen the mob scuttle to the back unimpeded after a brief skirmish.
The utility of concussion blow is mitigated by the high rage cost and long cooldown. This button just doesn't light up very often.
6. disarm, 20 rage: "disarms for 10 sec"
The aggro lock aspect of disarm is more important than damage mitigation, in a raid environment. Only armed mobs can be disarmed, however, and the rage cost is very high. When this button lights up you have to have to think about what you are doing: pressing the button on an unarmed mob generates an error message, and uses rage whether or not you disarm anything (not sure on this point).
7. demoralizing shout, 10 rage: "reduces enemy attack power by 182 for 30 sec"
talent - improved demoralizing shout, 5/5 points: "25% increased attack power reduction"
The defense spec warrior spends at least as much time and rage shouting as he does smashing & bashing. Every shout makes the mob hesitate, multiple mobs are affected simultaneously, and the rage cost for shouts is minimal. It is interesting that in D2 the singing barbarian was much beloved, while in WoW nobody knows or cares about warrior shouts.
8. taunt, 0 rage: "taunt enemy to attack you, has no effect on enemy that is already attacking you 8 sec cooldown"
talent - improved taunt, 2/2 points: "reduces cooldown 2 sec"
Taunt is the reason for using defense stance, of course. Spangles can't remember seeing an ordinary mob "resist" taunt. Even major bosses seem to respond to taunt, although sometimes the boss graphic is too large to see the taunt icon. (The combat log is closed during raids.) Taunt will snag a targeted mob that is charging the rear, and rubberband it right back to you. Taunt will spin the mob around from a group of assisting attackers to face you alone.
This latter effect is fun, but is it useful? The idea is that physical damage from separate attacks is greater if it comes from opposing directions, but I'm not sure about this. With the new patch, creatures cannot block or parry attacks from behind. (They can still dodge attacks from behind.) These effects result in less damage to the other attackers, which makes orienting the mob with taunt worthwhile indeed.
9. piercing howl, 10 rage: "dazes all nearby enemies for 6 sec"
talent - piercing howl, 1/1 point: "dazes 6 sec"
This is a great shout and it will stall multiple mobs, but the effect is always overwritten much earlier than 6 sec.
10. battle shout, 10 rage: "increases party's attack power by 193, lasts 2 min"
I was advised to ditch this shout, since it only augments physical damage, and only helps other melee members in the group, but I hate to give it up entirely since it should be useful in small groups and pvp. No talent points were assigned to it, however.
-. bloodrage: "generates 10 rage, then 10 rage over 10 sec"
talent - improved bloodrage 2/2 points: "reduces health cost of bloodrage by 50%"
=. shield bash, 10 rage: "bashes target with shield for 45 damage, interrupts spellcasting for 6 sec"
talent - improved shield bash, 2/2 points: "gives shield bash 100% chance to silence the target for 3 sec"
Shield bash is spammed without hesitation, on everyone, not just spellcasters. A thorium spike adds considerably to the damage. The button is placed where it is easily found since directing a shield bash at a spellcaster at exactly the right moment can be tricky. I've always thought that an extra increment of damage is done by a properly timed bash to a spellcaster, but I'm not sure.
Ancillary talents
toughness, 3/5 points: "increases armor value by 6%"
These three points are preqs for the next tier: toughness seemed a better choice than anticipation or iron will.
last stand, 1/1 point: "get 30% of max hp for 20 sec"
Anything to stay alive for another few seconds.
defiance, 5/5 points: "increases threat generated by attacks by 15%"
unbridled wrath, 5/5 points: "40% chance to generate additional rage point when dealing melee damage"
Excellent, excellent.
one-hand weapon specialization, 5/5 points: "increases damage 5%"
cruelty, 5/5 points: "increases chance for critical strike by 5%"
These points may help when in small groups or alone. Might be better placed elsewhere, tho.
Statistics for Spangles
HP: 1H/S: 4139 2H: 4069
AC: 1H/S: 6437 2H: 4155
"damage reduction against lvl 60 player is 53.9%"
These numbers do not change with stance.
melee damage, DPS
1H/S, defense: 86.9 berserker: 96.5
2H, defense: 90.4 berserker: 100.4
These numbers don't reflect the damage output mitigation caused by defense spec talent point assignment, of course.
ranged attack damage, DPS
defense: 63.7 berserker: 70.8
This shows that Spangles should switch into berserker to fire the gun, which she had not thought of before writing this piece.
Conclusions
Issues of free will aside, if Spangles were raidmaster she would demand that all warriors spec defense for the raid environment. This is not practical, of course. Nevertheless, it is much easier for Spangles to cooperate with the other defense warrior in our group than those in other stances, and this may have implications for the more difficult dungeons in the end game.
Much of the advantage of defense stance in the raid environment applies to 5 player groups also. It may be that in this context, total commitment to defense reduces damage output to unsatisfactory levels, and a more balanced assignment of talents is necessary. Spangles needs more experience before deciding.
Defense stance is great fun to play. The graphic shows a savage and unrelenting attack that is very satisfying. The real fun is talking to the mob, teasing it and frightening it and spinning it around, a game within the game. The statistic of 10% damage reduction to the warrior understates its effect. The defense warrior is very tough indeed, and with good healing, can play whole raids without checking his health. These benefits will bring more warriors to stance defense when they cap, I am sure.
The discussion here is of the defense stance warrior in a raiding environment, 10 members or more. This has some relevance to 5 man dungeon groups, but is probably less relvant to soloing or pvp.
Definition of defense stance
"Decreases damage taken by 10% and damage caused by 10%. Increases threat generated."
Summary
There is no compelling reason for a warrior to leave defense stance in a raid environment. An artistic performance might begin with thunderclap and end with execute, but that takes time and rage. If the warrior pulls, the aggro will accrue entirely to him automatically at the beginning. At the end, his durability and aggro lock will have been of more value to the group than a chance at a juicy crit. The warrior doesn't beat things to death by himself on a raid. Massive support DPS is everywhere. Rogues crit for a living, casters nuke with many times the DPS that any warrior can reliably generate. The warrior holds the mob in position where the group can dispatch it. This is best done in defensive stance.
Skills and Talents
Skills are listed by position on the button bar, which is just habit. Supporting talents are listed with the skill.
1 attack: auto by default, "T" toggles
This makes for problems when immediately adjacent mobs are shackled, since the next swing after the current target dies is taken automatically. Autoattack reduces thrashing, however, and seems to be the easiest way to find a new target quickly.
2. sunder armor, 12 rage: "reduces target armor by 450, can be applied up to 5 times, lasts 30 sec"
talent - improved sunder armor, 3/3 points: "reduces cost of sunder armor by 3 rage points"
Concillian's analysis of accelerating returns for sunder armor makes this the primary attack after a taunt unless shield bash is needed.
3. revenge, 5 rage: "instantly counterattack enemy, follows block, dodge or parry"
talent - improved revenge, 3/3 points: "40% chance to stun target for 3 sec"
4. shield block, 10 rage: "increases chance to block by 75% for 7 sec"
talent - improved shield block, 3/3 points: "block additional attack"
talent - shield specialization, 5/5 points: "increase blocking 5%"
Gnollguy pointed out that revenge lights up after your block or parry, not the mob's. This and the fact that revenge/shield block use relatively little rage make this combo the foundation of the defense spec attack.
5. concussive blow, 15 rage: "damages, and stuns for 5 sec"
talent - concussive blow, 1/1 point: "damages and stuns opponent, 45 sec cooldown"
This attack obiviates charging or intercepting. Charging may surprise players in pvp, but a mob always knows when you arrive. You may as well walk up to the mob and concuss him in your own good time. Its value is in the ensuing downtime, not the extra damage that charge might do. The problem with charge/intercept is that it generates little or no aggro lock. Time and again Spangles has watched other warriors charge a mob at the front of the group, and has seen the mob scuttle to the back unimpeded after a brief skirmish.
The utility of concussion blow is mitigated by the high rage cost and long cooldown. This button just doesn't light up very often.
6. disarm, 20 rage: "disarms for 10 sec"
The aggro lock aspect of disarm is more important than damage mitigation, in a raid environment. Only armed mobs can be disarmed, however, and the rage cost is very high. When this button lights up you have to have to think about what you are doing: pressing the button on an unarmed mob generates an error message, and uses rage whether or not you disarm anything (not sure on this point).
7. demoralizing shout, 10 rage: "reduces enemy attack power by 182 for 30 sec"
talent - improved demoralizing shout, 5/5 points: "25% increased attack power reduction"
The defense spec warrior spends at least as much time and rage shouting as he does smashing & bashing. Every shout makes the mob hesitate, multiple mobs are affected simultaneously, and the rage cost for shouts is minimal. It is interesting that in D2 the singing barbarian was much beloved, while in WoW nobody knows or cares about warrior shouts.
8. taunt, 0 rage: "taunt enemy to attack you, has no effect on enemy that is already attacking you 8 sec cooldown"
talent - improved taunt, 2/2 points: "reduces cooldown 2 sec"
Taunt is the reason for using defense stance, of course. Spangles can't remember seeing an ordinary mob "resist" taunt. Even major bosses seem to respond to taunt, although sometimes the boss graphic is too large to see the taunt icon. (The combat log is closed during raids.) Taunt will snag a targeted mob that is charging the rear, and rubberband it right back to you. Taunt will spin the mob around from a group of assisting attackers to face you alone.
This latter effect is fun, but is it useful? The idea is that physical damage from separate attacks is greater if it comes from opposing directions, but I'm not sure about this. With the new patch, creatures cannot block or parry attacks from behind. (They can still dodge attacks from behind.) These effects result in less damage to the other attackers, which makes orienting the mob with taunt worthwhile indeed.
9. piercing howl, 10 rage: "dazes all nearby enemies for 6 sec"
talent - piercing howl, 1/1 point: "dazes 6 sec"
This is a great shout and it will stall multiple mobs, but the effect is always overwritten much earlier than 6 sec.
10. battle shout, 10 rage: "increases party's attack power by 193, lasts 2 min"
I was advised to ditch this shout, since it only augments physical damage, and only helps other melee members in the group, but I hate to give it up entirely since it should be useful in small groups and pvp. No talent points were assigned to it, however.
-. bloodrage: "generates 10 rage, then 10 rage over 10 sec"
talent - improved bloodrage 2/2 points: "reduces health cost of bloodrage by 50%"
=. shield bash, 10 rage: "bashes target with shield for 45 damage, interrupts spellcasting for 6 sec"
talent - improved shield bash, 2/2 points: "gives shield bash 100% chance to silence the target for 3 sec"
Shield bash is spammed without hesitation, on everyone, not just spellcasters. A thorium spike adds considerably to the damage. The button is placed where it is easily found since directing a shield bash at a spellcaster at exactly the right moment can be tricky. I've always thought that an extra increment of damage is done by a properly timed bash to a spellcaster, but I'm not sure.
Ancillary talents
toughness, 3/5 points: "increases armor value by 6%"
These three points are preqs for the next tier: toughness seemed a better choice than anticipation or iron will.
last stand, 1/1 point: "get 30% of max hp for 20 sec"
Anything to stay alive for another few seconds.
defiance, 5/5 points: "increases threat generated by attacks by 15%"
unbridled wrath, 5/5 points: "40% chance to generate additional rage point when dealing melee damage"
Excellent, excellent.
one-hand weapon specialization, 5/5 points: "increases damage 5%"
cruelty, 5/5 points: "increases chance for critical strike by 5%"
These points may help when in small groups or alone. Might be better placed elsewhere, tho.
Statistics for Spangles
HP: 1H/S: 4139 2H: 4069
AC: 1H/S: 6437 2H: 4155
"damage reduction against lvl 60 player is 53.9%"
These numbers do not change with stance.
melee damage, DPS
1H/S, defense: 86.9 berserker: 96.5
2H, defense: 90.4 berserker: 100.4
These numbers don't reflect the damage output mitigation caused by defense spec talent point assignment, of course.
ranged attack damage, DPS
defense: 63.7 berserker: 70.8
This shows that Spangles should switch into berserker to fire the gun, which she had not thought of before writing this piece.
Conclusions
Issues of free will aside, if Spangles were raidmaster she would demand that all warriors spec defense for the raid environment. This is not practical, of course. Nevertheless, it is much easier for Spangles to cooperate with the other defense warrior in our group than those in other stances, and this may have implications for the more difficult dungeons in the end game.
Much of the advantage of defense stance in the raid environment applies to 5 player groups also. It may be that in this context, total commitment to defense reduces damage output to unsatisfactory levels, and a more balanced assignment of talents is necessary. Spangles needs more experience before deciding.
Defense stance is great fun to play. The graphic shows a savage and unrelenting attack that is very satisfying. The real fun is talking to the mob, teasing it and frightening it and spinning it around, a game within the game. The statistic of 10% damage reduction to the warrior understates its effect. The defense warrior is very tough indeed, and with good healing, can play whole raids without checking his health. These benefits will bring more warriors to stance defense when they cap, I am sure.
![[Image: spangles_sig_3.jpg]](https://home.comcast.net/~swesson5/spangles_sig_3.jpg)