08-09-2003, 10:48 AM
I thought I was done with this thread, but I guess not. I'm sorry that you're offended, Brista, but as Archon_Wing posted and because it has been debated otherwise in the thread, in the American culture, there is generally a consensus that there is a difference between the two words.
Do I really have to refer to that book again? Or suggest that episode of Boston Public? In American culture, especially urban culture, the -a version of the word is generally accepted as a slang phrase that can be the equivalent of "pal" or "buddy". You can hear the word in popular music, televised stand-up routines, and successful big-screen movies.
Ignatz used the post title to reply to the thread's topic and like many people before him decided to give something different for the "n/t" at the end of the topic post. His choice might be troublesome to some people but not to many people raised in urban cultures, areas of ethnic diversity, or with the comedic stylings of Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, so on and so forth...
From Ignatz himself:
So, Ignatz would likely be able to escape Mike Tyson unfazed if he said what he said in a humorous fashion like he intended. Even non-black individuals would probably get by unfazed if they tried to use it as a joke, although they might get some stares, glares, or just outright be ignored. The African-American community, in fact, is the one that propogates the prominence of the -a word in modern American culture in order to hopefully disempower the word by changing its meaning somewhat. It's the intent behind the word that makes it harmful, like the word "Colored". I'm sure people found that word insulting during the Civil Rights Era, since it was the politically "correct" way to label Blacks for discrimination.
Anyhow...he was posting something on topic on this thread, and added something for flavor. It just so happened that it was controversial flavor and that he was asked to defend himself (From me, who happens to be defending him at this moment. Funny how that works, huh?). If Bolty had simply censored it, I doubt Ignatz would've complained. He defended himself rationally with no malicious intent and he defended his views without being offensive, in my opinion. I don't view him to be a racist at all, nor that he intended for this thread to be a place of "self-promotion". He said something that he found amusing and didn't find offensive, something that popular culture tends to agree with, and was forced to defend his views. I admit to having some culpability for having this thread extend so long because I discussed it with arguments rather than insulting flames that are less tempting to reply to.
I was the troll here.
I'm pretty sure someone would've done a flame, call him an "idiot", and that would be the end of story. I invited and encouraged the debate. Sorry, Brista.
I would rather not show Ignatz the door. I don't think he's gloating about his arguments, or suffering from some sort of superiority complex, or prone to the griefing activities that you seem to imply. In fact, from the sounds of it, he seems active in the community and willing to discuss and contribute. Don't condemn for something that, from the looks of this thread, isn't something that is agreed upon by the general consensus of the community to be offensive. Sure, maphack might have some unspoken advocates amongst this community, but Bolty is draconian about his policy towards that. I'm sure he'd be draconian towards hate speech, but in his opinion...it seems this wasn't hate speech.
If you are offended, try to resolve it through communication and asking him to politely refrain from using that word instead of sitting silent till you're so offended that you make a statement asking the rest of us to immediately show him the door without trying to resolve the issue reasonably.
Anyhow, feel free to lock or nuke the thread, Bolty. If people get this insulted, it isn't worth the philisophical debate, no matter how interesting the subject matter or how thought out the arguments are. Ignatz, please stick around, and try not to tread on anyone's toes. Brista, don't be offended by anything I said, please?
I hope I'm done here.
-Grim-
Quote:I for one don't know anything about spelling the word with an -a rather than an -er to convey a softer meaning. I've never heard of that. To me it's the same word, spelt so as to slip past the filter
Do I really have to refer to that book again? Or suggest that episode of Boston Public? In American culture, especially urban culture, the -a version of the word is generally accepted as a slang phrase that can be the equivalent of "pal" or "buddy". You can hear the word in popular music, televised stand-up routines, and successful big-screen movies.
Ignatz used the post title to reply to the thread's topic and like many people before him decided to give something different for the "n/t" at the end of the topic post. His choice might be troublesome to some people but not to many people raised in urban cultures, areas of ethnic diversity, or with the comedic stylings of Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, so on and so forth...
From Ignatz himself:
Quote:Does it change anything if I tell you that I am black?
So, Ignatz would likely be able to escape Mike Tyson unfazed if he said what he said in a humorous fashion like he intended. Even non-black individuals would probably get by unfazed if they tried to use it as a joke, although they might get some stares, glares, or just outright be ignored. The African-American community, in fact, is the one that propogates the prominence of the -a word in modern American culture in order to hopefully disempower the word by changing its meaning somewhat. It's the intent behind the word that makes it harmful, like the word "Colored". I'm sure people found that word insulting during the Civil Rights Era, since it was the politically "correct" way to label Blacks for discrimination.
Anyhow...he was posting something on topic on this thread, and added something for flavor. It just so happened that it was controversial flavor and that he was asked to defend himself (From me, who happens to be defending him at this moment. Funny how that works, huh?). If Bolty had simply censored it, I doubt Ignatz would've complained. He defended himself rationally with no malicious intent and he defended his views without being offensive, in my opinion. I don't view him to be a racist at all, nor that he intended for this thread to be a place of "self-promotion". He said something that he found amusing and didn't find offensive, something that popular culture tends to agree with, and was forced to defend his views. I admit to having some culpability for having this thread extend so long because I discussed it with arguments rather than insulting flames that are less tempting to reply to.
I was the troll here.
I'm pretty sure someone would've done a flame, call him an "idiot", and that would be the end of story. I invited and encouraged the debate. Sorry, Brista.
I would rather not show Ignatz the door. I don't think he's gloating about his arguments, or suffering from some sort of superiority complex, or prone to the griefing activities that you seem to imply. In fact, from the sounds of it, he seems active in the community and willing to discuss and contribute. Don't condemn for something that, from the looks of this thread, isn't something that is agreed upon by the general consensus of the community to be offensive. Sure, maphack might have some unspoken advocates amongst this community, but Bolty is draconian about his policy towards that. I'm sure he'd be draconian towards hate speech, but in his opinion...it seems this wasn't hate speech.
If you are offended, try to resolve it through communication and asking him to politely refrain from using that word instead of sitting silent till you're so offended that you make a statement asking the rest of us to immediately show him the door without trying to resolve the issue reasonably.
Anyhow, feel free to lock or nuke the thread, Bolty. If people get this insulted, it isn't worth the philisophical debate, no matter how interesting the subject matter or how thought out the arguments are. Ignatz, please stick around, and try not to tread on anyone's toes. Brista, don't be offended by anything I said, please?
I hope I'm done here.
-Grim-
Kwansu, dudes! - A whole bunch of Patu San citizens.