Pirates me hearties, pirates!

[--Pete]

Hi,

So how do we help, even if they want it, even assuming they are wanting our ideals of freedom and democracy?

First, they must be the ones who want it. And with that we cannot help much other than by diplomacy and propaganda. Once they do want it (or at least a sizable group with some power does) then we can help. We can help mostly with education. Education in the democratic process, in improved farming, in low tech business start ups, in family planning, in basic health and hygiene. We can also help with financing (loans, not hand outs), with security, etc. But it has to be at their request.

How has any group of people ever really formed a nation. Has it ever happened non violently (I'm honestly ignorant of history, that's a legitimate question).

If you mean formed a nation out of nothing, then it as been a long time since this has happened. The original settlers in an area eventually formed nations when the population became big enough and something like government evolved. I suspect that, at least, some tribal warfare accompanied the process.

In historical times, founding a nation usually means replacing a nation's government with another government or form of government. The only relatively non-violent example I know of is the Glorius Revolution. Most often, the process is much bloodier.

As Occhi says they are living in the past with modern equipment. But doesn't history show that it's pretty much been this warlord or that leader that united people under a strong will and eventually they realized it was better?

The problem is that the process is slow. And by that, I mean generations slow. The bulk of the world doesn't seem to be willing to let the process play itself out. Perhaps they are right, but to date their attempts to fix things have lead to worse rather than better.

How do you get education to the people, when there is no method of delivery?

A little at a time. It's a bootstrap process, and it must be initialized internally.

Can you really blame the people for all of if?

That's a very complex question. You can't blame the people individually for it, because individually, the people are too weak to change it. But you can blame the people collectively for it, because collectively they do have the power to change it. Collectively, they accept it.

Besides, that is a larger question than we are dealing with here. The question here is simply, "Are the pirates at fault for their actions?" And the answer is always, "yes, provided they are sane."

I seriously look at that mess and can't see a way to cure the cause or handle the symptom effectively.

I don't think there is any short term way. I think that it would take nearly a century (three or four full generations) to actually 'fix' the problem. And that would be under ideal conditions. Full co-operation by the population and the government, a school system that reaches nearly all the population, no internal warfare between factions. The less these conditions are met, the longer (by generations) will the fix take.

Things are more stable in Iraq right now.

That is a debatable statement. Under Saddam, there was no fighting in the streets, no terrorist training camps, no personal militias, no IEDs. A person could drive from one city to another and expect to complete and survive the trip. Could shop in the bazaar and not expect to be blown to bits.

It's a mess, and I don't see any damn answer. Fixing Somalia doesn't even solve the issue as there are other countries there that will just cause issues as well.

I think you are right, there is no way to fix these problems from the outside unless we're willing to conquer those countries, govern them for the decades necessary to build their infrastructure and educate their population and eradicate their tribal hatreds. The quick fix doesn't work. And I don't think the West is willing to take on that burden. And, probably, morally shouldn't.

But we can do something about the symptoms, whether they be piracy, kidnapping, or terrorism. We can make the cost of those actions so high that no one, no matter how extreme, will support them. But do we have the stomach for it?

--Pete