Is 1.10 Hell playable?

[channel1]

The regen issue looks to me mostly confined to bosses in Normal players 4 to players 8

Right. I guess I should have mentioned that, but I'm so dense that I never even thought about having only one player. :)

-rcv-

[whyBish]

I would suggest luring them to the River, tp-ing out and coming back from the way point and killing them from across the River

I never thought of that :) I was thinking more along the lines of lister parking. B.T.W. this is a 'blade fury' assassin (1 pt only). max venom with death sentry as a secondary. Problem is, I think those guys are poison immune (so I can't stop regen) and the lightning attack is not enough to bring them down if it is attacking more than one at a time. My current claw is 'steel' for crushing blow which does a good job of getting them down, but not finishing them. Also had a thought that I should take of the howltusk so that they stop fleeing :P

[Brista]

Is there an easy way of combining Prevent Monster Heal with a ranged attack?

I know it exists on some uniques like Blackhorns but I don't know how easy it would be to get hold of in no-twink

Otherwise you could sit across the river, tag em with Prevent Monster Heal and gradually Death Sentry them down

[Dagni]

Is there an easy way of combining Prevent Monster Heal with a ranged attack?

Well, you mention Death Sentry, so you must be talking an assasssin. Therefore, yes, there is. The one-point wonder known as Blade Fury, combined with any weapon with PMH B)

Actually, I guess I don't know for certain that Prevent Monster Heal works with BF, but I expect it does.

- Dagni

[BEEFMOTRTON]

Malith (Ith El Eth) runeword seems it would be quite good for an assassin dealing with boss regeneration.

Has prevent monster heal, 100% open wounds, and takes away 100 defense with each hit. Might be worth keeping on weapon switch.

[DarkCrown]

I've been flinging a Pilum of Vileness.

[Wrathraven]

from my experience, and that of most others I talk to/play with, Hell is just stupid. Instead of making tougher normal monsters, 90% of the new difficulty focuses on boss packs and ranged attackers. For the former, Hell has become 20+ uniques with their minions, many of which are so hard to kill it's beyond challenging into the realm of frustrasting and boring. When you can wake up 2 or 3 boss/minion packs at the same time something is not right. NOT ONE PERSON I've talked to likes this change, and I've talked to quite a few. It might not be THAT bad if minions hadn't gotten the insane HP boost, regen and abilities of their master, OR if bosses were limited to 3-4 minions max. But seeing two boss-packs of Yetis barrelling across the map at you isn't fun, it's just disheartening. Is this the best Blizz can do do try and challenge us?


And don't get me started on the "random" monsters in Act 5....

[andrewlt]

Nah. I had to go back to act1 numerous times against Lister and company on normal at players 1. I needed the full complement of around 6 skeletons, iron golem and some mages (I only had skills for 6 at the time) to kill him and his minions. I also had to divide his group and take them 1 on 1. Even at players 1, 3-4 skeletons at around level 12 and level 8 skeleton mastery isn't strong enough to overcome their regen.

I'm on act3 nm right now and have a might merc and more skeletons. It's kinda easy except for places like Arcane Sanctuary and Maggot Lair. Summons and mercs are still dumb as hell. Especially in Arcane, they don't know how to climb stairs and it was an exercise in frustration. Duriel was easier on nm. I had 8 skellies, 4 mages, iron golem, 3 revives and might merc. I just used iron maiden and kept recasting blood golem after the iron golem died. Duriel seems to want to target the blood golem first. I hid behind the mages but all of them survived. The frontlines were thinned out, however.

I don't know how hard hell will be but CE is way imbalanced right now and I have around 6-7 points in it.

[whyBish]

I feel like such a N00b, Forgot all about cloak of shadows. Thank goodnes for one point wonders !

[Zath]

I really like the new unique and champion densities in Hell actually. It makes the game much more interesting since you never know what crazy combination of boss mods you're going to encounter next. Normal monsters are just too boring and repetitive, and I've had enough of them in v1.09 already. The endless stream of boss packs in v1.10 have been oodles of fun for me, especially if I can get into a good group. The only complaint I have is the high damage output of ranged attackers and extreme health regeneration rates of some monsters, but I may eventually just get used this as well. Certain locations such as the A2 false tombs and A3 temples could use some improvements to avoid potential stair traps though.

[Occhidiangela]

I might have underestimated the effects of monster improvement as more people entered a game.  My Paladin, playing solo in one game, moved to a new one where 5 players participated.  Heading back to the same area playing alone, it would take me just around 5 times as many hits to take a monster down as before.  I actually played to a stalemate with one boss who could heal himself; I wasn't able to do enough damage alone to kill him off and he couldn't hit me enough to get past the regeneration I was receiving through my Prayer aura.  In the end I just went back up to town, laughing.

That was written three and a half years ago, or thereabouts. By Bolty. See his Diablo II Beta Test here at the Lounge.

What appears to have changed is that we aren't laughing about the regen issue anymore. :)

EDIT:

Giggle. From that old beta report.

Bugs.  Believe me, there is a reason Blizzard needs a beta test.  It was discovered last week that anyone who wears a whole set of items immediately crashes all the other players out of a game.  Fun.  And lately, people have been having trouble (myself included) selling socketed items in town.  Another gamer I know had trouble where his Necromancer's minions kept attacking his own Bone Walls! 

Is this deja vu all over again, with some of the Set quirks? It took "how long" to get the minions to stop attacking the bone walls? :) Sorry, Isolde, if you are reading, that was a bit of a cheap shot I suppose.

[ImpressiveOne]

Serious frustration with hell ATM, I quit playing my necro because of the boss pack density. He has over 1000 life so dying is not the problem, my pets dying is the problem. And at 40k a pop for my merc to revive it was getting very expensive and tedious.

Nightmare was too easy for this build even at players8, but in hell difficulty forget it. Of course this is discounting team effort. I'm sure if I get some teammates to get that first corpse things would be easier. Right now, blech forget it. Nightmare was more fun...

[Occhidiangela]

. . . Hell. :)

Nightmare was more fun...

However, since it is a game, and a game is supposed to be fun, then maybe Hell being Hell is offputting.

[ImpressiveOne]

Okay my main grip with hell is the number of stone skinned bosses. I kill everything (dropped to players4 for now) and then along comes a stone skin and then stalemate, I can't kill him and he can't kill me (as long as I have my pets). Does the necro have any -defense curses? I feel like such a newbie asking... ;)

[Zath]

Stone Skin uniques have increased physical resistance, so Amplify Damage (-100% physical resistance) and Decrepify (-50% physical resistance, among its various effects) should both be very helpful. Keep in mind that most monsters can regenerate their health completely in about 80 seconds, so you need to deal damage quickly or try to counter that regeneration. A single Skeletal Mage with a poison attack can do wonders here, although you can use your own poison skills as well.

[ImpressiveOne]

okay, then yeah, hell is fubar'd. Stone skins even with a might merc (doing 600-1200 damage), amp, 10 skeletons, and level 14 poison nova are nearly unkillable. players4 hell/act3.

[Occhidiangela]

That is the problem, sounds like a shot of Preven Monster Heal per monster is required.

Equip a back up weapon in slot 2 to help with that?

Sadly, that does sort of "item-ize" the game a bit.

[channel1]

I hate to bring up another weapon that will probably be hard to get on the Realms, but the Crescent Moon Runeword on an Act 2 Merc (and probably on Act 5 mercs as well) will do wonders with those hard to dent critters.

20% Static Field along with Open Wounds and Ignore Target's Defense pretty much does it. :) I rarely bother with it now that my merc is at level 77, Breath of the Dying seems to be a quicker killer.

-rcv-

[ImpressiveOne]

knowing me when I actually do acquire those runes I'll wait until I find a 3 socket elite polearm.. more itemizing yay!

[Ignatz]

First off, I'd like to mention that I love Hell mode, now. I think it's great. It's far, far, better than in 1.09. There are glaring problems and parts of Hell are downright stupid. However, in general, I am enjoying it very, very much.

My 1.10 Hell list of pros and cons works out like this:

Pros:
-Monster density: I love the new density of monsters, especially in multiple-person games. It makes crowd control absolutely vital, but it also makes for some really, really fast-finger battles. I'm playing a DTail/Dtalon/TS assassin right now and she's an absolute blast. And personally, when I run into a nasty legion of baddies closing in, I find it just exhilerating. And when the battle is over, I actually feel out of breath and spent. Of course, that's partly because every screen-full of baddies in hell takes about 10 minutes to chop down.

-Monster attacks (new ones): Some of the enemies have very fun, surprising, and exciting new attacks. I love all the new spell flingers, the amount of cold damage in Hell, and the new ways critters have to beat on your poor little hero. Yes, you are now required to have a Cannot Be Frozen item in Hell. This is mandatory for just about every character. Is that disarmingly problematic? I don't think it is.

-Monster AI & Speed Improvements: Awesome! D2:Lod has finally, finally, finally started to feel like D1. Some of the monsters are nearing the point of being indimidating. I LOVE that. Slingers in Act 5 are scary. Bone-spear chucking lizards are scary. And PI Frenzytaurs are S-C-A-R-Y SCARY! Plus, now you're required to have faster run. That's not a suggestion, it's not a way to up your killing speed, it's your towel in a hitch-hikable, but hostile galaxy.

-Monster variety and spawning: I've heard some complaints about this. I don't know why. I love it. There are some great, if not frightening surprises. Quill rats, Slingers, and Burning Dead in the Bloody Foots, for instance, are enough to soil the armor of even the most continent of adventurers. Continuity issues are a bit annoying, and given time, should be addressed. Playability, on the other hand, has been much improved by this.

-Global 50% PR Gone: Tyreal, can I get an "Amen"?! Amen!

-HP scaling: I like it much better. (Caveat, regen rates. Keep reading.)

Cons:

-Regeneration Rates: ...are, put simply, retarded right now. It's so high in Hell that a whole SLEW of variants are simply rendered impotent. That's not fun, that's just plain limiting. Varients should be hard to play, and yes, they darn well should take 15 minutes to topple Bishibosh. But with the regen rate the way it is, many builds simply can't kill many monsters, period. Or, nearly as bad, the regen turns a regular baddie from a 15 fireball kill to a 50 fireball kill. That's not fun, that's tedious. And the fact that you can make backward progross is no fun. I don't mind a little backward movement, but when you portal to town, or worse, die and run down your body, and the boss or champs are all fully healed, that's frustrating. I don't care who you are, that's not enjoyable. I'd rather monsters had 30% more HP and small or nonexistent regen rates than what they have now. The regen rate as it stands makes a Prevent Monster Heal just about mandatory for a physical attack based character. That's just ridiculous.

-Pet and Merc rebalancing: Summons, Mercs, and tanks of every flavor need significant and careful rebalancing. A lvl 30 Shadow Master will die every few seconds or so in Hell, even players 1, in a big mob (don't get me started on Golems). And yet a lvl 20 Valk is nigh unkillable. I have a lvl 85 Barb merc in Hell with the best gear there IS in 1.10 and he dies very, very frequently. I can't even keep him alive amid a handful of monsters, and STILL we pay 50k to revive them. I couldn't kill fast enough with my CL Sorc to get enough things to sell to revive my lvl 85 merc as often as I needed him. And he's using Doombringer (Amned), Crown of the Ages, and Leviatan armor. Why? Monsters do so damned much damage right now, that you add in the leech nerfs in Hell and there's no reliable way to keep a merc alive. Life tap can do it sometimes, but life tap shouldn't be necessary to keep a lvl 85 Barb with near-perfect equipment alive through Hell players 1. The opposite problem is what afflicts Necro skellies: They're tough as nails, but do nothing damage-wise. In my mind, Golems are tanks more than damage dealers, while Skellies should be damage dealers more than tanks. Having 8 or 16 almost unkillable skeletons that do zilch for damage isn't nearly as fun as having 8 or 16 killing machines that nevertheless go down pretty quickly. The faster they die, the more skilled the player must be, which is more fun. Then, to balance their death rate, they should deal enough damage that 60 points in skeletons kills about as fast as, say, 60 points in the Lightning tree or 60 points in Traps, even. As is, 60 points in skeletons nets you a bunch of impenetrable mimes. Hooray.

Overall, I think Hell is vastly improved. I find myself using tactics I'd never even thought of before (there was no need). Also, I like being nervous when I play, being able to dish out boatloads of damage, but taking boatloads too. That's when the game gets fun, and it's almost there. Fix the regen rate, sturdy up the Mercs and some summonables, and Hell would be a killer's heaven.

Ignatz