language and the internet

[AtomicKitKat]

Well, that's the apellation I adopted for myself, kind of, after being mocked/praised for good language skills.

For the most part, {wcip}angel has already covered most of my sentiments(replace Norwegian with Chinese dialect, and you have my life story, kind of)

However, it is my divine duty to pick out these errors in your post.

However, to examine Netspeak as a language, once must examine present-day languages

One. Not once.

faux paus

Faux pas.

I couldn't find any others, although it's possible that I might have missed one or two.

Also, a few common errors:

definate/definatly===>definite/definitely(correct version)
certanly/cretinly(I WISH someone would make this mistake so I could mock them)===>certainly

I am not above saying "LOL" to my brother or (younger) cousins in real life. I do of course refrain from putting smileys into written matter as far as possible, but it seems that the written word is slowly dying out, as teachers start requiring typed projects as handwriting got worse(mine is not too bad, but not particularly exemplary either)

Oh yes, and if you think typing like an AOLer is bad, you haven't seen what flies from the hands of Singaporeans/Malaysians.

As an example:

U dun play me out lahz! U *censored*!(censored word is a certain three letter abbreviation that is identical to that which we use here to mean the highest damage prefix on the biggest possible swords. I censored it myself though.)

Translation to "proper" Singlish(English with dialect/local vernacular thrown in):

You don't play me out lah. You *censored*!

Further translation to proper English.

Don't you play me for a fool! You *odourous bodypart undergoing biological function*(lah has no real equivalent in English. At best, I guess you could consider it an extraneous sound that one adds for emphasis.)

There's worse.

WAH PIANGZ! u dun come here kaypo la. non of ur biznez!

Translation into proper English:

"OMG! (this is about as accurate as I can get it. Wah Piang means something like 'My Father!' or 'My God!' Used as an exclamation of shock/surprise)
Don't come in here being a nosey-parker/busybody. This is none of your business."

Feel free to leave offerings for future divine intervention. ;)

[AtomicKitKat]

I hate editing my posts, because I believe in "once through, always right" as far as my posts regarding the English language, and I usually do a "wetware" spell-check before I post, so it feels degrading to me to edit posts unless it's for something not particularly significant(like if I asked a question regarding the game).

Now, as to the reason for this reply. The above-mentioned slashdot.com website once posted an article regarding the use of "1337-517341<" in the classroom. It was linked to on an old thread in this forum. I'm not sure if you can find it in the current board of threads, or in the archives, but that thread provided/s an excellent amount of information regarding this topic. By the way, the guest claiming to be AtomicKitKat on that site, was also me.

Edit: Found the old thread.

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.p...T&f=2&t=219&hl=

[[wcip]Angel]

Abbreviations are not an internet invention, witness things like etc, eg, ie and so on which are common even to formal publications (eg in scientific journals).

Hehehe nice touch ;)

[LavCat]

Angel,Dec 14 2003, 06:52 AM]Hehehe nice touch ;)

All the abbreviations cited are Latin, not English, and are most properly italicized to show this.

It seems to me that abbreviations were, if anything, more common in written English from three or four hundred years ago than they are today, viz. "ye" for "the" and like constructions.


P.S. I think the Count meant "ie." rather than "eg." in her example.

[LavCat]

For the most part, {wcip}angel has already covered most of my sentiments(replace Norwegian with Chinese dialect, and you have my life story, kind of)

Yes, but can you post as well while drunk?

By the way, it was not until the food thread that I figured you might not be a native English eater.

[AtomicKitKat]

Drunk? Let's see. I took over a year to finish a bottle of Martell cognac. The most I've ever drunk at once was a glass of 90% JD and 10% Coke(the cola, not the drug), and I went to bed and passed out right after that. So no, I don't drink very much, and not while typing.

I eat viscera, which a lot of Westerners are squeamish about. I have no idea why they are. :)

[[wcip]Angel]

P.S. I think the Count meant "ie." rather than "eg." in her example.

Isn't that from "Get Shorty"? :lol:

[Guest]

[wcip]Angel:

Again, I feel terribly biased, as I'm a student of English, and actually have a natural fondless/love for the English language, moreso than my mother tongue.

I can only speak for myself, but my language (Norwegian) is pathetically poor in lexicon. I don't know how many words there are in the Norwegian language, but I' quite certain English has somewhere between 5 and 10 times more. ...

Ah, I feel the same way for Swedish. One conversation I had about Swedish music being so bad came to the conclusion that there's so many more words in English to express a certain thing.

I am by no means a music buff, but the only Swedish music I find in my collection is Kent, whos music by the way when (they) convert it to English sounds horrible. I like some more Swedish bands, but they sing in English . . .

I should also mention that I believe a multitude of languages on the Internet can only slow down the flow of information.

That I can't agree with, what about the people which don't know English, should they be confined to just not express themselves on the net? I remember chatting to an Asian (Chinese I think) which said she'd studied English for 10 years - and still had to look up words all the time, she was far worse at it than me.

One of the photo sites I frequent has managed to draw in people from all around the world, and among the best opinions/critiques I've seen (of my work) has come from someone which had to mainly resort to babblefish.

But then again I LOVE watching films in foreign languages - even if I don't understand a single word (subtitles are nice though). Just they way they talk, the culture/... (I can't come up with a better explanation) that comes with the language.

[Count Duckula]

I'm a fan of subtitled films. I also watch a lot of anime (Japanese animation) and I prefer it subbed. Dubs feel wrong in a way, mostly because English can't adequately handle the culture.

I've gotten into research on teachers and Netspeak, so that's a whole new chunk of my paper right there. I'm editing paper and portfolio in the editing studio, while project #3 compiles. Also ran into another Grammar student on the way to the editing studio, who said that the 5-hour exam is looking more like an 8-hour one. The essay question is the size of my midterm, and then the sentence diagramming!

This is NOT FAIR. I don't think I'd be so crabby about my workload if we actually got something done in class besides swap anecdotes on grammar with the Teacher's Pet. I've written two papers already for this professor, one of them with two rewrites. I've written a notebook full of sentence diagrams. I've typed "response papers" to the class' network message board (and nearly killing the keyboard in frustration when Teacher's Pet draws the same conclusions that I do but uses 1000+ words to my measly required 300). I taught the class about transitive verb sentence patterns and felt like a total failure when Teacher's Pet took over my presentation because "you're doing it all wrong, anyway."

I feel like I'm working and stressing over this class a whole helluva lot more than it deserves. Volume does not guarantee excellence. If I can make a point clear and concise in the alloted time with the alloted length, I shouldn't be forced to use some bloated and anecdote-ridden document as a yardstick to measure my work or success.

I'm also not looking forward to spending hours fine-tuning a paper then spending eight hours on an exam. Y'know, I could drive home in less time than it would take to finish that exam.

And then I look at my hard drive, and all the choice bits the Wayback Machine pulled up for me, and all the Diablo history from November 2002 on that I compiled before the fit hit the shan, and there's this little voice inside my head saying "just shove that crap out of the way and work on the fun and rewarding stuff!" I don't think I'd sound so lame and desperate if it wasn't for this: I stand a good chance at making Dean's List for the first time since I've been at Hollins. Every year, there's been ONE CLASS that keeps me off it. And I'm cursing my Grammar class for being that ONE CLASS this semester. And the thought of bringing home my grades, and my parents seeing that C among all those As...

So that's why I've been out in the snow and screaming. :(

It'll all be over soon, and then I can nag the Lurkers about Diablo history rather than angsty papers. :lol:

[pakman]

I have only had one class where the quality of the writing mattered, and that class was history. All others, ie, English, Speech, even a lab class, it was the more you wrote, the better your grade. The big paper in history was minimum of 5 pages, I went 5.5 and got an "A." There was someone who had a 10 pg. paper and got a "C."

I know exactly what you are talking about, I hate it too. I can usually get my points across concisely without a lot of flowery language. However, I haven't had to write many papers in college, I only write lab reports and those are easy, do the math, report the results, explain the results, apply the results.

[LavCat]

Drunk? Let's see. I took over a year to finish a bottle of Martell cognac. The most I've ever drunk at once was a glass of 90% JD and 10% Coke(the cola, not the drug), and I went to bed and passed out right after that. So no, I don't drink very much, and not while typing.

I eat viscera, which a lot of Westerners are squeamish about. I have no idea why they are. :)

I meant can you post as well as [wcip]Angel does while drunk, since we were treated to a recent example thereof.

A lot, if not all, of western cultures traditionally eat viscera, which in English (the language, not the culture) would more politely be called "variety meats" by the time they made it to the table. But yes, speaking as a Westerner, I admit to being squeamish, although I enjoy such food on occasion. (As long as it is cut in little pieces -- alcohol does help.)

Two dishes native to this area are pepperpot, which is tripe soup, and scrapple, which is what one does with a pig and cornmeal when there is not much left to do.

One of the finest examples in western cuisine is of course the Haggis, which I have only had abroad. Fortunately true Haggis is illegal in the U.S.

[[wcip]Angel]

People from the Lounge are actually mentioning my name. I'm so happy I could cry. (yes I'm drunk again.. yes it's a Sunday)

I will reply to your posts in the morning. Right now, all I'm registering is your mentioning of my name..

[LavCat]

It might be mentioned more if it were easier to mention. You couldn't find a way to use non-printing characters? Does [wcip] signify something in Norweigian?

"Lav" by the way is short for "lavender", not "lavatory" as some have suggested.

[Nightwind]

My paper topic is how the internet affects language and how language affects the internet. I'm sitting on an 8-page rough draft that I'm polishing to a final draft due on Monday.

intersting.

would you belive that I did a report my senior year on the internet and the efects that cross cultural influances have had on comuninity/fammilly relations?
be warned that most of the information on the internet, is outon the internet, and thus suspect, though highly intersting. Be prepared to back things up with more then the normal amount of sources. I made sure that any given refrance had atleast two points of backing behind it, and that I had multiples before I tried to make a point from it...

I'll be glad to read it...

but you might want to concider that the intenet only increaced the rate of the spread of english....
have you listened to j-pop lately? One in 5 lines contains english. Have you read a transcript of a buisnessmeating... anywhere? In germany you would be able to spot the buzzwords, they are cognates.... I would argue that it's an example of the pervasiviness of american culture (and why... well, being lazy has it's apeal), and the net accelerated it, rather then started it.

[Nightwind]

I eat viscera, which a lot of Westerners are squeamish about. I have no idea why they are.

where do you stand on a nice pile of raw fish on vinagered rice?

[Nightwind]

I'm a fan of subtitled films. I also watch a lot of anime (Japanese animation) and I prefer it subbed. Dubs feel wrong in a way, mostly because English can't adequately handle the culture.

that's one of the l ongest ongoing debates, I stand to agree with you, i prefer it subbed, but because I enjoy, so slowly, learning the language...

[whyBish]

(Slang) I've never heard anyone say out loud,&nbsp; "I pwnzor joo suxxor n00blar."

Does something need to be spoken to be considered a language? I doubt it... consider "Sign language", and the various computer languages for example.

[whyBish]

(and nearly killing the keyboard in frustration when Teacher's Pet draws the same conclusions that I do but uses 1000+ words to my measly required 300)

...

And the thought of bringing home my grades, and my parents seeing that C among all those As...

You should do some CompSci or maths papers... the shorter the answer, the better the grade :P

...

I've had some Cs in my time, but my parents can't complain since neither of them passed <insert American version of exams for 15 year olds> :P

Best wishes for you assignment.

[Chaerophon]

[wcip]Angel,

As a hopeful future French speaker (not quite passable yet ;) ) it's interesting to note that you mention the dangers of idiomatic "Norweiganisms". During my visit to France, I was struck by the number of English phrases that make absolutely no sense to the French. (This wasn't such a problem in Quebec, interestingly enough) What have you found to be the case with Norwegian? Clearly you have an excellent command of English, (better than the large majority of those who have spoken the language since birth, I would say) so, purely out of curiousity, taking into account differences in sentence structure, etc., which would you think to be harder: understanding Norwegian or understanding English when translated word for word? I'm betting on English, but I could be wrong...

EDIT: More specifically, I ask because I have several Swedish friends who picked up English so quickly and so naturally that I was really quite amazed and wondered how much of idiomatic English had been taken up as a part of Swedish. (Media influence, the internet, adverteising and all that good stuff would then seem to be quite a factor in the answer to my question)

[[wcip]Angel]

Do you mean .. "What's easier to understand
1. Idiomatic Norwegian
2. Norwegian translated word for word from English"?

Given the fact that sentences in English are constructed differently than the Norwegian counterpart, I'd say that for me it's easier to understand idiomatic Norwegian.

Hmm.. I think I might have misunderstood your question.

Do you mean.. "What's easier to understand"
1. Idiomatic Norwegian
2. English translated word for word from Norwegian"?

Well.. easier for whom? :)
For native speakers of English, or even for people who speak English as a second or third language, a battered pidgin*-like English language is still preferable to Norwegian.

For me, I'd say it's easier to understand my own language. The thing is; I can understand Norwegian just fine; it's just that I prefer speaking English.

------

Adamantine, you listen to Pain of Salvation? They're a Swedish prog-rock band.