Damage Goes To Mana

[Tommi]

Sometime back Foxbat suggested that Damage Goes To Mana might be handled in the same code as Energy Shield. Can anyone confirm this? And a related question does Energy Shield come before/after Damage Goes To Mana? Sorc players might know this.

Cheers,

Tommi

[Caaroid]

ES comes before EVERYTHING now, but it always came before Vulpine.

I think vulpine is applied last, but I am not sure about that.

I have a sorc with 45% PDR and 110% vulpine, according to my observations the application order is ES -> RESISTS -> VULPINE.

[Tommi]

Thanks. May I ask for details?

If your sorc is hit by an attack that reduces her mana to zero (due to ES), does Vulpine items replenish mana after that, so that you can cast, e.g., Teleport? Or does the mana from Vulpine get added first and then the mana damage from ES subtracted, so that you may be left with 0 mana?

A related question to technical experts: Is ES mana damage handled the same way as mana damage from mana burn bosses?

Cheers,

Tommi

[Caaroid]

but I am no code-reader.

The rick is that vulpine only works with physical damage, so all the tesing has to be done with physical attacks. So far we experienced, that the mana heal comes later, and that means that yes, you do get some mana to teleport away.

However in practice this does not work so well. Elemental damage drains your mana fast, and with the increased effectiveness of ES it can drain your mana way too fast.

About mana burn: to me it seems that it comes after the vulpine heal, since physical-damage mana burn monsters managed to drain me dry, what no other purely-physical monsters were able to duplicate.

Mind you, these are all just experiences, no code-reading involved.

[Tommi]

Thanks for info. :)

I don't mind if the info is from reading the code, testing, or experiences, as long as it is quite reliable. :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Tommi

[moget?]

Hi,

ES comes before EVERYTHING now, but it always came before Vulpine.

Is that really true? I would hope that defence would be applied first. I have been meaning to make a tank sorc for a while now. She would specialize in Eshield, Telekenisis, shiver armor, etc. If defense does not matter then ...dang! I would have also made her with max warmth, and TONS of energy.

Also, if the application order was truely,

ES -> RESISTS -> VULPINE

Then wouldn't the vulpine only be taken from the actual damage done to mana? For example, with level 8 energy shield (55% damage absorbed, and assuming level 0 telekenisis), 45% PDR, and 110% vulpine, you take a hit of 300 physical damage. Is the PDR only applied to the damage that hurts your health? I think so.

Would the damage to you then be: [300*(1.00-0.55)]*(1.00-0.45) damage done to health (74.25 dmg), and [300*(0.55)] damage done to mana (165 dmg)? In this case, methinks the vulpine would heal 110% of 165 damage (the actual damage done to mana).

Also, I think vulpine is applied last, but I am not sure about that.

If it is applied last, then that would be a good thing for the aforementioned example. The character would lose 74.25 health and 165 mana, and then be healed 165*1.10 mana (181.5).

Also, one last thought: When you run out of mana and are hit with Eshield on, does your health take all the beating? I think so.

edit: A thought on the tank sorc:

Ignoring telekenisis: If I put all my stats (other than a few strength) into energy, max warmth, get tons of +skills, +mana, +energy, and vulpine items (nightsmoke, Naj's staff and armor...etc.), I could potentially be immune to physical damage. @ level 40 Eshield, I would only take 5% damage to my health (easily offset by pots), my mana would heal (a lot) from being whacked due to vulpine. Can you say "Lister tank?" Wow.

The only problem with ignoring telekenisis is that elemental attacks would rule my world. Perhaps the 'no points in telekenisis' policy is not necesary if I get enough vulpine. Perhaps the mana heal from vulpine could offset any magic damage I take. I guess I need to test some stuff! :D

[Tommi]

What Caaroid meant, was that Energy Shield comes before all other damage modification effects, except the PvP penalty, which is handled first in 1.10.

[moget?]

Tommi,

Is the rest of my post correct though? Is PDR only applied to health damage? Is my analogy to absorbs correct? How about the tank sorc? Comments are appreciated ;)

--moget?

[Tommi]

No, Vulpine does not do anything with regard to mana damage, only physical damage. Assuming that Vulpine is applied last (what was just what I don't know for sure), and using your example:
- Energy Shield absorbs 165 damage, which is converted to mana damage (amount depends on Telekinesis skill level)
- The rest 135 hits you, which is reduced to 74.25 by Physical Resistance. Now you get back 1.10 x 74.25 = 81.675 mana from 110% Vulpine.

Cheers,

Tommi

[moget?]

Hi,

Thanks for the info Tommi. Ok then, my previous hypothesis about telekenisis was wrong - it will always help.

In this case, with my assumed level 40 energy shield, my sorc would not really be benifitted by vulpine items, since only 5% of the damage I take will be "vulpined." In that case I could just go for a hardcore +skills, +mana, +energy, +life build, with telekenisis, Eshield, warmth, etc. As for cold armor, would it be a good idea to get one? This character is not meant to kill anything really, just to be able to tank ANY monster for other players. Perhaps in this case (since my base defence might not even be that high), I should go for frozen armor to freeze the fools :D

[Tommi]

I now updated my damage modification page to reflect this info better:

http://www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/damagereduction.html

Merry Christmas,

Tommi

[AtomicKitKat]

Max ES. Max TK. Max/High Warmth.

X% Chance to cast Y(especially Static/Nova/FNova) when struck items(HitPower set with PSkulls in helm/armour/shield comes to mind)

Thorns merc.

The bad news is that you might not have enough ES/TK skill to convert HP damage to mana. The good news is that you can get by with less, depending on how strong the regen is.

My $0.02.