Help me buy myself a Christmas present!

[WarLocke]

I am blessed (or cursed, depending upon how you look at it), with parents who insist on buying me Christmas presents, but can never quite find the right thing. So I've become accustomed to receiving checks around this time of year, which does kind of erode the holiday spirit, but hey, it's the thought that counts, right?

So anyway, a few days ago my "present" arrived in the mail in the form of $200. I've been sitting on it, trying to decide what exactly to do with it, since then.

My first impulse was to save it away and begin building up reserves to eventually buy a non-3-year-old computer. But that won't work; already I've had to dip into it for various and sundry things (emergency grocery store runs, eating out on the spur of the moment, etc) and I know if I try to set it aside I'll just burn through it.

My second thought was to maybe invest in a console; I haven't owned one since my old PS1 died, and there are several console-exclusive titles I wouldn't mind playing (I hear Metroid Prime is good... ;) ), but $200 buys a console and maybe 1 or 2 games, so it would seem a bad investment.

Now I'm thinking I may sink the money into short-term computer upgrades. My grandfather's pretty much over his recent health problems, so I should be able to start looking for a 'real' job soon. With an actual income, a new computer is only 3 or 4 months' worth of careful banking away.

With that in mind, $200 could procure some decent upgrades. I've done a quick scan on NewEgg for the parts I seem most in need of upgrading (RAM and my video card) and they've got Geforce4 MX440-8Xs listed for $45-50 and 256mb sticks of DDR RAM for $40. I'd be buying local in any case so the prices will be higher, but it seems to me that $200 will buy at least 256mb more RAM and a low-end GF4.

So, some questions:

1) My current video card is a GeForce 2 MX/MX400 64mb PCI (See? Crap.); what kind of performance increase in general would be seeing with a GeForce4 MX440 AGP (my 'board has an AGP slot, I just screwed up when buying my last card... <_< )? I don't need "OMG MY EYES ARE BLEEDING" graphics, but being able to run newer games (KOTOR I'm looking at you!) with some of the eye-candy actually turned on would be nice. I haven't looked at any ATI cards, but I'm by no means an NVIDIA fanboy, so any suggestions for a decent budget-priced card in that camp would be welcomed as well.

2) I'm going to have to dig around in my control panel to see what kind of RAM I'm using now, whether it's SD or DDR; I honestly don't remember. I actually don't know what the difference between them is (urk), so if my mobo supports both (?) and I'm using the crappy type, I may end up replacing my current 256mb stick with another (I'd have to crack my case to confirm, but IIRC my mobo has only 2 RAM slots, so 2x256mb is probably as high as I can go with my current funds). Anyone mind giving me a rundown of the differences between SD/DDR/whatever other types I don't know of?

[DeeBye]

Personally, I'd blow the $200 on booze and hookers.

[roguebanshee]

1)&nbsp; My current video card is a GeForce 2 MX/MX400 64mb PCI (See? Crap.); what kind of performance increase in general would be seeing with a GeForce4 MX440 AGP (my 'board has an AGP slot, I just screwed up when buying my last card... <_< )?&nbsp; I don't need "OMG MY EYES ARE BLEEDING" graphics, but being able to run newer games (KOTOR I'm looking at you!) with some of the eye-candy actually turned on would be nice.&nbsp; I haven't looked at any ATI cards, but I'm by no means an NVIDIA fanboy, so any suggestions for a decent budget-priced card in that camp would be welcomed as well.

The Gf4 MX line are more or less overclocked Gf2 cards with NO pixel shaders. So if any of the games you want require that (some new games do) a Gf4 MX card is a waste of money. A Gf3 card is a better low-cost investment since it has pixel shaders.

[Nystul]

1) Yeah... avoid anything that has the initials MX at this point. I'm convinced the GF4MX series was only designed so that Nvidia would have a nice cheap chipset with the GF4 label to integrate on the motherboards they were starting to develop. The other Nvidia cards should be better. I haven't really been following the market recently enough to make a specific reccomendation, other than that the GF4MX were "obsolete" (in terms of Directx8 compliance) before they were designed.

2) If your motherboard has support for DDR, then that would be preferable to SDRAM (but cost may be an issue, especially if your current memory stick is SDRAM). Basically you can get data from DDR twice as fast, as long as your motherboard supports it. If your motherboard supports something else, you probably won't have much choice on what you can get. You want memory that is rated for a speed equal or higher to your bus speed (or double that, in the case of DDR). In any case, you want memory from a reliable company, even if it costs a little more.

3) Combining one and two, do not get a graphics card if it is only using regular SDRAM for it's video memory. This should be pretty rare by now, but you may see it occasionally on the cards at the bottom of each series. In this case, your graphics card will be limited by the bandwidth of its memory, and you will end up with performance only marginally better than your GF2.

[moget?]

Hi,

Assuming you will want to upgrade to a new computer after some good cashflow, I have an interesting solution:

Since you dont have the discipline to save it up, try this. Buy yourself a high quality graphics card for your current computer. When that grand day comes when you can afford a new system, (depending on your technichal expertise) build one (!!) instead of buying one. Until then, your new graphics card can keep your old computer proficient, and once you can get a new system, just port it over. This way there will be no waste whatsoever. Of course you may have no idea how to build your own system, but I would provide you with any advise needed (along with some other adept lurkers perhaps?).

As for the card, consider ATI's Radeon line of video cards. They preform well on very graphics intensive games and are just as good (if not better) than any GeForce cards (plus they have a cooler name). I currently use a Radeon 9000, which I got for a little over $100 (after some careful online shopping). Radeons and GeForce cards are analogous to AMD vs. Intel chips :D. Radeons also go up to model 9600 (or something), which are incredibly powerful (need an auxiliary connection to power supply for extra juice!). So, before limiting yourself to nVidia cards, consider these.

As for memory, the difference between SD and DDR is simply that DDR runs faster than SD, and therefore better :)

[Dozer]

As for memory, the difference between SD and DDR is simply that DDR runs faster than SD, and therefore better

It doesn't actaully run faster, but it can process a piece of data on both the upstroke and the downstroke of a data cycle - making it able to process twice as much data.

My reccomendation, WarLocke: get a Radeon 9600 9which is $108 on newegg), and two sticks of 256MB PC2700 DDR ($32 each). Then you can buy a pizza and a six-pack for the installation :D

[Den]

I just totally re-vamped my PC: installed new HD, MoBo, AMD2000, Memory, etc. And you know what? I'm not sure it's any better then it was before. You know the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I'd spend the month on a new hobby, a trip, or a nice dinner with a lady (maybe even the wife ;)).

[WarLocke]

Staight from AIDA32:

Memory Bus Properties
Bus Type - DDR SDRAM
Bus Width - 64-bit
Real Clock - 100MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock - 200 MHz
Bandwidth - 1600 MB/s

Memory Module Properties
Module Name - Kingston KVR266X64C25/256
Serial Number - 280B3200h
Module Size - 256 MB (2 rows, 4 banks)
Module Type - Unbuffered
Memory Type - DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed - PC2100 (133 MHz)
Module Width - 64 bit
Module Voltage - SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method - None
Refresh Rate - Normal (15.625 us), Self-Refresh
Highest CAS Latency - 2.5 (7.5 ns @ 133 MHz)
2nd Highest CAS Latency - 2.0 (10.0 ns @ 100 MHz)

The good news seems to be that my motherboard (some crap Elitegroup Computer Systems model with a 2+ year old BIOS because I can't find a newer one) supports both SDRAM and DDR (according to the Motherboard Physical Info which reports "2 SDR DIMM, 2 DDR DIMM" for RAM slots), but I'm still confused about the stick I have, since it reports back as "DDR SDRAM". Unless I'm reading something wrong, I guess.

moget?'s advice about buying a decent card now and transplanting it to the new comp later is sounding good. I don't know about picking out a Radeon though - there's a small local shop I really would rather support than going somewhere else, and while I know he carries nVidia cards, I'd have to check for ATI hardware. I may do that later today.

[WarLocke]

Well, it's done.

I went down to the shop to check out prices, and noted that the only video cards on display were GeForce4 MX440s. The owner tried to sell me on one, but I was firm in not wanting to settle for it due to past experience (and advice from this thread). When I asked if he had others perhaps in back, he said that he didn't but offered to order a card for me.

He called up (I presume) his supplier, and quoted me a price on a GeForceFX 5200 (128mb DDR). It was about $40 more than he wanted for the MX440s, but I didn't overly mind the higher price. He even claimed that he should get the card tomorrow afternoon! I wouldn't think that possible this near Christmas, but he seemed confident of it, so perhaps I'll be doing computer surgery tomorrow evening.

Although, I am kicking myself for not asking if the card was a 5200 Ultra or not. Hope that brain fart doesn't cost me.

I'm moving up in the world, yay for me. I may not be buying a Viper, but it sure beats a GeForce2! :lol:

Now I just have to figure out how to figure out once and for all whether my RAM is SDR or DDR so I can buy the right 'stick. bah.

[DeeBye]

Now I just have to figure out how to figure out once and for all whether my RAM is SDR or DDR so I can buy the right 'stick. bah.

Do yourself a favour and download SiSoftware's Sandra Standard. You can use it to find out all sorts of interesting things about your computer. To see what type of RAM you have installed, you just look under Mainboard Information and then under Memory Module(s).

For example, this is what Sandra has to say about my installed RAM:

Physical/BIOS Memory Banks
DIMM1 (RASL-1 RASL-0) : 256MB DIMM SDRAM single-bank
DIMM2 (RASL-3 RASL-2) : 256MB DIMM SDRAM double-bank
DIMM3 : Empty
DIMM4 : Empty

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module 1 : 256MB 8x(32Mx8) DDR-SDRAM PC2100U-2533-750 (CL2.5 upto 133MHz) (CL2 upto 100MHz)
Memory Module 2 : SpecTek 1CB02A00 256MB 16x(16Mx8) DDR-SDRAM PC2100U-2533-750 (CL2.5 upto 133MHz) (CL2 upto 100MHz)

Also, if it turns out that you don't currently have DDR RAM, it might be worth your while to just chuck what you have and go for a whole 512 MB of brand new DDR RAM. It's dirt cheap right now, and you'll get a lot of bang for your buck.

(I still would have gone for booze and hookers)

[WarLocke]

Also, if it turns out that you don't currently have DDR RAM, it might be worth your while to just chuck what you have and go for a whole 512 MB of brand new DDR RAM.

Hypothetical question (downloading Sandra now, just bear with me):

Assume I can only afford 1 stick of 256mb, and my current stick is SDR.

Would 512mb SDR perform better than 256mb DDR? Or would the dual-data-rate stick perform about the same (which would argue for buying 1 now and a scond later)?

[DeeBye]

Assume I can only afford 1 stick of 256mb, and my current stick is SDR.

Would 512mb SDR perform better than 256mb DDR? Or would the dual-data-rate stick perform about the same (which would argue for buying 1 now and a scond later)?

512 MB will always be better than 256 MB, DDR or no.

But here's another curveball to throw your way -- DDR RAM is much cheaper than SDRAM. According to NewEgg.com, 256 MB of DDR RAM goes for about $30 versus about $50 for SDRAM. If you're buying locally, tack on another ten bucks or so.

[kandrathe]

512 is better. But, 512 DDR would be the best. If you had smaller RAM size you would be very likely to push your memory into HD virtual RAM which is very, very slow.

If I was forced to choose between a fast video card and adequate RAM, I would choose adequate RAM any day. With XP I run 1 GB for me, and for my wifes smaller duty machine I run 512MB. I just don't think 256 MB is enough anymore.

[DeeBye]

I just don't think 256 MB is enough anymore.

I find this hilarious. It wasn't that long ago when having 64 MB RAM was awesome, and now you really need at least 512 MB RAM just to get by.

One of my most prized assets when I was younger was a Toshiba laptop. It was a 386dx, EGA 4-colour graphics, 2 MB RAM, and a huge 40 MB harddrive. At the time, it was state-of-the-art.

My first Pentium had 8 MB RAM, which blew me away. I could play Quake and Diablo! Another 8 MB RAM would have set me back about $100.

Now you can get a gig of RAM for about that price.

[WarLocke]

If you had smaller RAM size you would be very likely to push your memory into HD virtual RAM which is very, very slow.

Yes, this happens quite often when I run newer games (HALO, KotOR). I've wanted to get more RAM for awhile; buying a new vidcard is just a good excuse, since I'll have to open the case anyway...

If you're buying locally, tack on another ten bucks or so.

Hrmm, the guy I talked to quoted $70 for a 256mb stick (but he'd give it to me for $60 as a 'deal'), and that he only made $10 off them on top of that. <_<

BTW, I just installed that util you recommended, and it says the stick I have is SDR. :( Also if I'm reading it right my mobo only supports 512mb RAM in total, blargh.

I wish I could order from NewEgg - it'd be so much easier. I don't have a PayPal account though, or a credit card (can't stand the things), or even a bank account right now. Blargh.

I wonder if I should march into the shop tomorrow and call his bluff on the RAM prices. I'd be risking alienating the only local source of parts, though (there's an OEM outlet in town, but the lady that runs it seems shady/creepy; I really don't want to buy from her unless I have to). I also feel somewhat obligated to show up for the FX 5200, since I had him order it shipped overnight mail and all. Blargh.

[moget?]

Hey,

I wonder if I should march into the shop tomorrow and call his bluff on the RAM prices. I'd be risking alienating the only local source of parts, though (there's an OEM outlet in town, but the lady that runs it seems shady/creepy; I really don't want to buy from her unless I have to).

I can't help but chuckle at the thought of your town :lol: . For some reason I can't help but think of some modern wild-west scene. I can only imagine the hillarious 'showdown' between you and the saloon owner, who still holds your graphics card hostage. :blink:

You: Yer bluffin'!

Him: You wouldn't dare!

You: Oh but I would, and I've come to take my card too!

Him: Care to settle this over my revolver?

You: You're on! DRAW!

And of course the inevitable line: "Don't you show yer' face round these parts, ye' hear? Go on! G'it!" Dare you venture to ask the dubious OEM apothecary for help? :huh:

Maybe I'm just a little off...

--moget?

[WarLocke]

OEM apothecary? :D

Marietta, OH really is kind of boring. The only thing very noticable about it is the college (just Marietta College, IIRC), which charges a ridiculous $25,000/semester tuition. For that price I hope it's got some good programs.

It's a 'slow' town. There's nowhere near as much 'stuff' going on as in Baton Rouge or New Orleans (or heck, even Lafayette); the favored pastime seems to be making fun of West Virginians, since we're about 200 yards from the border. I'm convinced that every town/state has some other town/state that's their official 'bad joke scapegoat' (growing up in Louisiana, it was Mississippi for us), and once you realize that there's not much fun in even joking about it.

The funny thing here is that the owner of the computer shop looks like he could have been a wild-west sherrif if born in the right era. :lol:

[Nystul]

DDR memory is a specific type of SDRAM. So when it says DDR SDRAM, this is good news. The stick of memory you have right now is a pretty good performance fit for your motherboard, no need to get rid of it. You just need to get it a mate.

[Ondo]

My second thought was to maybe invest in a console;&nbsp; I haven't owned one since my old PS1 died, and there are several console-exclusive titles I wouldn't mind playing (I hear Metroid Prime is good... ;) ), but $200 buys a console and maybe 1 or 2 games, so it would seem a bad investment.

I'm too late, but you can get more than that. $100 gets you a GameCube with 4 classic Zelda games - two good NES games, which are very dated, and two good N64 games, which still rock. You'll need a memory card, which is $20 at most. Metroid Prime is $30, Super Smash Bros. Melee is $30, Pikmin is $20. You just need to pick up the older games instead of the newest stuff.

Also, a console game rental service like www.RedOctane.com or www.GameFly.com can be a very good deal.

[WarLocke]

Thanks for the suggestion Ondo, but the money's already spent. :o

I picked up my precious ( ;) ) this afternoon, and got it installed without too many hassles. I'm still tweaking game settings, but right now I'm running KotOR in 800x600 with the High-Detail texture pack and Frame Buffer Effects, and it's smooth as a baby's bottom. Shadows and Grass are big performance hits still though (but the game still runs better than it used to with them on).

I'm going to experiment with AA settings, since the butter-like smoothness and great textures now make the 'jaggies' that much more obvious.

The shop is closed for Christmas now, but I'm going to have to call back next week. I went ahead and picked up a stick of SDRAM while I was there, because that's what all my diagnostic programs were telling me I had, but when I had the case open I noticed the chip I had was DDR (one notch in the connector, not two)! :angry: I'm going to have to see if I can swap it out for a DDR stick, dangit.