Another Flash damage bug?

[Zenda]

Hello,

Recently I found something odd in the damage of the Flash spell. This is not the known bug where one of the two spell components does much less damage as the other. Experimenting was done in The Dark (Hellfire), where that bug is fixed.

Flash seems to do the proper damage to most monsters, both resisting and not. But sometimes, I'd say one in five, a monster turned out to be 'extra' resistant: it would only take about 20 damage, or even less when resistant to Magic. The proper damage would have been about 1800 for non-resisting monsters in this case. Strangly, this occurred to specific monsters, and other of its kind might receive the normal damage. Damage often turned back to normal when the monster changed its position. Leaving the level and returning had no effect, if the monster hadn't moved in between. Changing positions and directions of the casting character had no effect, either, as long as the monster didn't move.

The code of the Flash spell effects show nothing which could make this happening.

Has anyone ever encountered the same in regular Hellfire or Diablo, or is this spell simply not used there? ;)

[Nystul]

Hmmm, I've never seen this happen. Plenty of people use flash, but only against certain monsters or when playing certain variants. Against certain monsters, they might not be the same monster types you are looking at (typically flash is used against balrog-types, soulburners, and azure drakes, along with a few various bosses). With the variants, the character is probably dead after the first or second flash fails to kill the monster and thus there wouldn't be time to notice this.

[Cytrex]

On the other hand...dying to a monster who should have been well dead in 2 flash casts is a good way no notice it :lol: I already posted on this subject on HF:TD forum(No reason to go reading it, nothing useful there :unsure: ).

[Jarulf]

Could it be the issue of a monster walking and thus the flash is missing a few times?

[Zenda]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies.

"Against certain monsters, they might not be the same monster types you are looking at"

For the record, I tested with Zombies, Skeleton Captains and Skeleton Archers, in Nightmare in The Dark, where all these monsters have between 100 and 200 hp. Zombies are magic resistant, the others are not. Given the high damage of the Flash (sorcerer level 43, Flash level 26), none of these monsters should survive a single casting.

But as I said, some Zombies would only be damaged for a few Hp, and some skeletons for only about 20.

"Could it be the issue of a monster walking and thus the flash is missing a few times? "

I don't think so, because monsters were mostly standing still in the tests. Also, even if only one of the 19 attacks would score a hit, damage would have been much higher. OTOH, it might be a similar bug as the immunity you are now referring to.

Edit:

After giving this more thought, it occurs to me that

- the lower damage is what you would get if the proper amount was divided by 64 (one time too many, you could say).

- this might all be intentional, as it provides the Flash spell a sorta 'chance to miss' which it would otherwise lack (some of its 19 attack would always hit, and thus always give a substantial amount of damage).

[Cytrex]

- this might all be intentional, as it provides the Flash spell a sorta 'chance to miss' which it would otherwise lack (some of its 19 attack would always hit, and thus always give a substantial amount of damage).

Intentional as in Bliz included it to give Flash a quasi-chance to miss(I hope I didn't get you wrong on this one)? Wouldn't it have been easier to just make flash check for tohit? Still, this doesn't explain what does the occurrance have to do with certain tiles.

[Draconis]

I don't know if its fixed in HF:TD but there is that bit where 3 tiles don't get as much damage as the other 6 with flash.

[Cytrex]

I don't know if its fixed in HF:TD but there is that bit where 3 tiles don't get as much damage as the other 6 with flash.

The bug is fixed there:

This is not the known bug where one of the two spell components does much less damage as the other. Experimenting was done in The Dark (Hellfire), where that bug is fixed

[Zenda]

Hello Cytrex,

"Wouldn't it have been easier to just make flash check for tohit?"

Flash does use the regular tohit checks. But because it attacks 19 times, this only results in less damage. Compare this to a (high damage) fireball, which can miss its target entirely.

[Cytrex]

Then I imagine there would have been no need to make it attack 19 times. Or is there another reason for that? I can imagine that things could get a bit awkward when a monster arrives on a tile next to you right after the cast(and there wouldn't be another 18 casts to go).

On the other hand, Flash is what I would like to call a lasting spell(similar to Inferno, Fire Wall etc) so 19 attacks sounds reasonable. IE you shouldn't be able to get away from it when you are standing in it for a while.

By the way - you still haven't found anything that might refer to the damage reduction in the code?

[Zenda]

Hello Cytrex,

"Flash is what I would like to call a lasting spell(similar to Inferno, Fire Wall etc) so 19 attacks sounds reasonable"

Exactly. This offers a nice mechanism, totally different from most missile spells. If nothing else, it offers diversity. Btw, there are spells that combine this: Elemental is similar to Fireball, but its splash does several attacks for far less damage (the same division by 64 here). Another example is Fire and Lightning arrows, but here Blizzard forgot to lower the damage, I believe :P

I haven't found the cause in the code yet, but haven't been looking hard either. It is quite hard, as it is somewhere in the mechanism between spell casting and target attacking. Also, there are several reasons why damage can be divided by 64. At this moment, I regard the matter as intended, which is alot easier :lol:

[Cytrex]

Another example is Fire and Lightning arrows, but here Blizzard forgot to lower the damage, I believe

Heh, I thought elemental damage arrows were bugged. So they actually are meant to attack several times? I believe I've heard that the damage from elemental arrows can be a lot higher and also much lower than you would expect. How could the lower part be explained then?

At this moment, I regard the matter as intended, which is alot easier

Yes, yes...deny the obvious :P Just kidding, there's nothing obvious in this game ;)

[Yogi_Baar]

So they actually are meant to attack several times? I believe I've heard that the damage from elemental arrows can be a lot higher and also much lower than you would expect. How could the lower part be explained then?

Maybe the same way as this new flash damage bug?

[Bolty]

Heh, I thought elemental damage arrows were bugged. So they actually are meant to attack several times? I believe I've heard that the damage from elemental arrows can be a lot higher and also much lower than you would expect. How could the lower part be explained then?

Ever been killed by a trap that shoots an elemental arrow at you? Ironman characters are particularly susceptible to this. The arrow would sometimes hit you multiple times.

From the Diablo DSF Buglist:

Damage from Fire or Lightning elemental arrows will occasionally be highly excessive. It is caused by the calculation for the damage occurring multiple times as it hits its target. This occurs on traps sometimes, as well.

When a monster is hit by a fire damage arrow, it stops regenerating hit points. This even applies to the Dark Lord, Diablo.

-Bolty

[Cytrex]

Ever been killed by a trap that shoots an elemental arrow at you? Ironman characters are particularly susceptible to this. The arrow would sometimes hit you multiple times.

Well, yes - this is the part where the damage is higher. Reading the quote from the buglist, i realised that may be the only case.

I'm amazed myself how much my information is based on things I've heard or read somewhere rather than factual knowledge. So just to be sure - there isn't a case where the damage from elemental arrows can be lower than expected?

[Jarulf]

My guide actually cover that bug in some detail in teh combat section dealing with fire and lighting damage on bows (as wel as on melee weapons). Just in case someone want a little more info (although by no means complete).

[Zenda]

Hello Cytrex,

"there isn't a case where the damage from elemental arrows can be lower than expected?"

Fire and Lightning arrows get their extra damage from multiple attacks, as stated (7 for lightning, 9 for fire arrows). Since each of those attacks follow the normal chances for hitting, it could be possible that none of them is succesful. That would result in no extra damage at all. Apart from this, I know of no other reason why damage would be 'lower as expected' (not counting resistances, ofcourse).

For what it's worth, from the elemental arrows used by goat archers in The Dark I have no indication that the damage is not following the normal pattern. They are always quite dangerous, especially the Death Clan ;)

About what the actual bug is here, I'm not so sure. Maybe Blizzard intended the elemental arrows to attack only once, for the damage they do now. In that case they just forgot to terminate the spell effect after succesful hit, as is done with many other spells. Maybe multiple attacks were intended, for more realism, but they forgot to scale down the damage, as is done with spells like Flash. The latter would make the elemental damage more comparable to that of melee attacks.

[Cytrex]

Since each of those attacks follow the normal chances for hitting, it could be possible that none of them is succesful. That would result in no extra damage at all

Right. I forgot that they have separate To Hit checks. This OTOH made me thinking...can the arrow itself miss and the elemental damage on it hit the target? If that is the case(if not, then ignore this question and the next :) ) then would the arrow still continue with the elemental damage still intact for the next target? Also would there be the fire splash animation when the arrow misses and the elemental damage hits?