World of Warcraft

[Yuen]

Is anyone else here very excited about the upcoming Blizzard MMORPG World of Warcraft?

I have been following the game for some time and it looks very promising. In my opinion it looks the best out of all the upcoming persistant online worlds. (Competition includes - Everquest 2, Sigil's (Brad McQuaid's) game - Vanguard, City of Heroes, Mythica, Ultima X-O)

It boasts distinctive character classes, each with a lot of depth.
The Blizzard team includes a lot of hard core EQ (and other MMORPG) players who know some of the major common faults of the genre and are aiming to fix them.
The world looks like it will be one you can fully immerse yourself in.
Very well planned questing system to take away from the levelling treadmill.

They're not reinventing the genre, they are simply evolving it - Mostly by taking all the good points of the genre, and attempting to fix all the common problems. Something which a lot of the other new MMORPG's I believe have not done.

With the recent announcements of Beta sign-ups at the end of January (Meaning start of Beta at some time in February) - now is the perfect time to get excited about the game (and to try and get into Beta - although Beta is america, canada, korea only).

So is anyone else here a MMORPG fan? and in particular anticipating World of Warcraft?

[Sir_Die_alot]

I'm not a MMORPG fan simply because I don't want to have to pay a monthly fee. For this reason even if WoW is very well done I won't buy it. :unsure:

[Assur]

Hi

I think WoW will probably be the first MMORGG I'm really interested in, meaning I will buy it if the game is really as good as the the screenshots suggest. I'm thinking about building an undead demonsummoner (shades of a necro summoner?)

good hunting

P.S. If the beta is not available in Europe I'm hoping for a realistic/critical review!

[Usufruct]

I'm sure it will be great, but I won't buy it because I hardly can justify to myself to spend $50 on a computer game, much less spend much more over a series of months.

[nobbie]

I'm not going to buy WOW because:

1.) In addition to the required monthly Internet fees (T-DSL connection + T-Online flat rate) of $45, I'd have to buy the base game for $50 and probably at least one expansion for another $30, plus I'll have to pay $10 per month (that's $120 per year, or $240 in two years) to Blizzard/Vivendi to be able to play the game at all (on the servers).
As a comparison: I already own Diablo II + LOD, I don't need a T-DSL connection to play it, and I don't really need a T-Online flat rate either if I limit my playing time to some hours on the weekends. The rest is free - no monthly playing fees here. If I lose a char/item in Diablo II, I doesn't really bother me because I've been playing for free. If the realm gets hacked, I don't really bother either because I've been playing for free.

2.) I don't really like games that can be played only on a server. I like single-player, and I like to mess with all the MPQ stuff and tables like in Diablo II.

3.) I'm currently looking for games that are more than hack & slash for cheap quests and items. My favorite would be a deep RPG and/or Adventure Game.

4.) No matter what Blizzard promises at the moment with respect to maintenance, security, constant content updates, bug fixing etc in WOW, I don't believe them anymore plus, all those promises depend on how financially successful WOW will be. There may be dedicated "game masters" and additional "support staff" in WOW, but they'll have - as far as myself is concerned - to prove that it actually works. They have disappointed me deeply in this regard more than one time during my 3 years of playing Diablo II/LOD. I'll watch the dedicated fan sites very closely for any WOW problems to see if anything has changed in this regard at Blizzard.

5.) I don't like Blizzard's policies with respect to non-U.S. and non-Korean custommers. They should really reconsider their treatment of, for example, European customers which - in their view - are obviously not worth much effort because the big bucks come from Korea/Asia and the U.S. I'll be watching the dedicated German fan sites very closely in this regard to see if anything has changed since Diablo II.

Last but not least, I'd say that WOW - due to its paying model - will not sell nearly as many copies as Diablo II/LOD once did, and it will therefore not be nearly the cash cow as the suits at Blizzard/Vivendi are probably still dreaming. This, on the other hand, will of course have a long-termed effect on the promised game support and updates, which may drop fast once the game turns out to be a "flop" (by marketing standards). We will see :)

[Socrates]

I was just about to post that I finally was considering buying a mmorpg.

nobbies post changed my mind.

[Arutha]

MMORPGs are in the "hard drugs" category, and for that reason alone, I'm staying well clear of that genre. ;)

But if I ever decided to commit a social suicide and start playing such a game, it would not be WoW.
Why ?
It's a Blizzard game.

Blizzard's appalling record regarding PR, anti-cheat policy enacting, game testing, and yes, even game design (D2 is a brilliant concept, with a first-class interface, but with so many imbalances, useless and broken features), as far as Diablo 2 is concerned, has made me boycott any future Blizzard product.
No way I can trust that company with my bucks any more.

[Phyloxerra]

Howdy,

I'm considering it long and hard. I can honestly say that if I get 1/10th the playing time out of WOW that I got out of D2/LOD I'll be very pleased.
It seems to me that blizz, although late with bug fixes/patches, still seems to TRY to make a great game for gamers. I don't know of any other gaming company that does half of what blizz does to make us happy. ( Yes I know that if they did it right the first time, they wouldn't have to fix it a second or third time.)

Scotty

[Guest]

I like MMORPs.

Unfortunetly most MMORPsare crippled by weak game play - I exspect WoW to change that.



People who act like playing a subscription fee is a base violation of principal, are deluded.


If you cant afford it fine.
If you are afraid you will spend too much time playing fine.


But really its not much money for what you get. It takes money to run and maintain games like this.
Services require fees - thats life.

[Nystul]

But really its not much money for what you get.

As a relative part of a computer gaming budget, it is a *ton* of money for what you get. About $150 if you play a year, about $400 if you play 3. For one game. You could have a library full of all-time great games for that kind of money (not to mention a lot of extraordinary free options from Angband to RTCW: Enemy Territory). And this for a genre which has some serious shortcomings besides price. Simply put, any pay-to-play MMORPG is a terrible purchase unless it provides a degree of entertainment that no other type of computer game can even come close to (which for some people may be the case, sure), or you are so rich that a few hundred dollars is deemed negligable.

[Dozer]

People who act like playing a subscription fee is a base violation of principal, are deluded.

Tell me that ($14.95 * 11) + $50 [$214.35] is worth playing ONE game for ONE year. 200 bucks is, to put it bluntly, a #$%&load of money to pay for a game.

But really its not much money for what you get. It takes money to run and maintain games like this.

I can host my own 12-player counter-strike server for six months on that much money, and you are saying that it's worth it to spend that much just to play one game?!?

[nobbie]

MMORPGs are in the "hard drugs" category, and for that reason alone, I'm staying well clear of that genre. ;)

My opinion exactly.

You know, with the introduction of pay-per-play MMORPG's, the game industry - like the rest of the entertainment industry (music, film, TV etc) - has finally lost its "innocence". Once laughed at, games have finally become the next victim of capitalism. It's not about "good games" anymore - it's about addictive games that promise oodles of cash for the producers. Just look, for example, at typical teenie TV channels like MTV these days: once a cool insider music channel with Ray Cokes as moderator icon, you now see faceless, young moderators with ads every 5 minutes in-between that try to sell you some completely useless, expensive jingles for phone handys, which are very popular among teenies. Complete consume terror - download this jingle, download that jingle. Teenagers are the primary target group for this junk, because most still live at their parent's home and have that money to spend. The same goes for MMORPG's these days: fancy graphics, sounds and gimmicks (a.k.a. quests and items) aside, it's basically addictive, unhealthy, crack-type junk for teenagers. It's like Hamburgers from the fast food shop - looks good, smells good, but it's basically just junk food. Always keep that in mind if you want to get into this type of games ;) My tip: Buy yourself a good book, CD or DVD instead, or go into the theatre or an exhibition of art.

[Artega]

Nobbie's argument is a strong one, and a valid one, too. He's basically summed up all of the reasons why people don't play MMORPGs in a few posts.

I will be playing WoW. I am a shameless Blizzard fanboy, and I believe that Blizzard, moreso than any other company, can succeed in this genre. Personally, I wanted StarCraft II or perhaps a "World of StarCraft", but WoW sounds fun just the same. I've been valiantly defending Blizzard and the MMORPG financial model on the four other forums I frequent, so excuse me if I don't feel like re-explaining my defense :P

[Guest]

I noticed you had to use the qualifier "relative".

Of course it costs more than other games, your paying for a service like I said.

But then I noticed you used the phrase "library full of all-time great games ". This isnt for people who look at games as something to make a library of.

Its for people who want to play in a virtual world with other real people.Its not a outright product, its a service you subscribe to.

[Guest]

Like I said youre deluded.

You think that because you can play your game with 12 friends for cheap, that a game on a server with 5-10 thousand accounts, that will have almost 0 downtime, and be persistant should be free too.
Not to mention it will have a full time staff of In game service reps and a full time development team just for continuity.


I would never say that a MMORP is the right game for everyone. But it takes a certain lack of perspective and sense to think such a game could be free or nearly free.

[Yuen]

I can understand nobbie's point of view - although I end up with the opposite opinion on MMORPGs.

I think everyone agrees MMORPGS are for a certain type of person.

I can honestly say that since getting into MMORPG's they have basically killed every other genre of game for me. I play single-player games that I once would have liked and find myself thinking 'this is boring... whats the point in playing?'

having said that I'm not actually playing any MMORPG at the moment because I find that the current batch out has too many flaws (that I hope WoW will correct). however having said that i'm not playing any game at all because every game I try - I compare to a MMORPG and find it lacking.

I happily pay the price a MMORPG costs (initial outlay + monthly cost + cost of internet connection) because I find it provides me with a level of enjoyment and immersion that (over a long period of time) is unequalled by any other genre of computer game.

Here are some of the reasons why I enjoy MMORPGs

(1) The continuing development of your character. OK fine so any RPG has character development. However single player RPG life spans are measured in days to weeks. MMORPG life spans are from months to years.

(2) Social Aspect and Community. D2 - which does not have a persistant online world - and can only have 8 players per world - only cultivates a relatively small community spirit and bonding. Most people don't know who other people are. MMORPGs have complex social interactions which are unpredictable - and which I find quite fascinating.

(3) Scope of MMORPGs. They just seem so much more epic. The fact it takes 2 hours to walk from one side of the world to the other. (That's if you don't get killed by the myriad of powerful creatures as you pass through the high level zones). The fact it takes multiple high level people to kill the most powerful monsters in the world.

(4) Immersion. No other genre makes me feel as immersed in the game as an MMORPG does. You fear (and excitement) as you carefully tread solo through areas which you really shouldn't be in. You feel proud as you and your group achieve your goals and milestones.

(5) Juxtaposition of high and low level characters successfully. In Diablo you (usually) only play with people your own level. I don't like that. I like in EQ for example there sand giants and spectres roaming the desert of Ro as well as the usually wimpy monsters (orcs, gators, etc). Thus both high level people can co exist with the low levels and as you progress through the levels you get to revisit old favourite areas but with a new viewpoint.
As a low level you spend your time hunting orcs and gators, and all the time watching your back in case a giant sneaks up on you and squashes you. In fact quite a community forms around people helping each other watch peoples backs for giants. You also look in wonder at the people who actually fight the giants and think about the day you will fight them.
As a high level you don't bother with the orcs and gators (except for the occasional unique gator which drops better treasure) and spend your time with a party fighting the giants and spectres. For this the lower levels and thankful that they don't have to watch their backs as much and occasionally ask you questions about mid-high level skills and item decisions.
It's a very interesting social structure that I like to observe (as well as be part of).

Some of the people who in this thread have never tried a MMORPG before - I think that if you are curious, then you should definitely try one. You may get a pleasant surprise like I did. If you don't you'll never know what you are missing out on.

[nobbie]

--> Clicky! :D

[Selby]

I personally dislike almost every MMORPG out there. They are all seen as cash cows by their companies. All the new ones coming out are just EQ clones (a game I despise) because they have seen the money that SOE has made off of it and want a piece themselves. So there is little to no innovation in the genre.

The social environment is definitely a bonus, but it depends on who you are. Some people made cities and ran governments in some of the games. Others like to rampantly PK. You get all of the good and the bad thrown in to one giant world where everyone gets to interact. People who have played just Diablo without actually playing a MMORPG don't know what it truly is like (but an idea is easily gained ;-) ).

That being said, I don't enjoy paying $9.95 a month so that some company can force me to play a game their way. I enjoy games like D2 and UO because character templates are varied and there aren't 1-2 uber classes that no one else can compete with. Games like EQ have a bunch of classes, yet half are gimped beyond usability beyond the late teens early 20's and out of the remaining ones there are a handful of uber ones that can do it all and a few that can do most. I like being able to see the entire game\world with any character I work on, not just the ones that are the dev's personal favorites or the ones that are the most popular.

That being said, saying that you won't pay $9.95 a month for a game is ridiculous. Unless you have played it already and didn't like it, how can you say it isn't worth $9.95 a month? I have paid $9.95 a month and I can tell you most of the games aren't worth it from experience ;-)

[Dozer]

Like I said youre deluded.

How, exactly, does disagreeing with you equal delusion? Or are you just trolling? Whatever, I'm not touching that one.

But it takes a certain lack of perspective and sense to think such a game could be free or nearly free.

No game is "free or nearly free" - you're paying $50 for it (if it's new). If, as you say, ten thousand people are on at one time, then i'll assume that about ten times that actually own the game. So one hundred thousand people pay $50, that is 5 million dollars. I realize that alot of this goes to distributors and stores and the like, but i think a persistant world can be maintained without a monthly charge.


If you don't believe me that can and is being done, take a look at http://www.guildwars.com/ This is a MMORPG with an emphasis on PvP and clan-warring. I'll quote from the FAQ:

Q: Will there be a monthly fee for Guild Wars?

A:  Although we are determining the final business model, there will be no monthly charge to play Guild Wars in North America; in Asia and most areas of the world, a variety of options will be offered using NCsoft?s existing infrastructure.

[Guest]

"but i think a persistant world can be maintained without a monthly charge"


You have no idea if its possible and you know it. Of course not all the money goes into maintence these are for profit businesses. But it takes a lot of money to run one of these games.
Take for instance DAOC, they always have one or 2 Developer teams just working on the live server and on free exspansions. They constantly patch and balance the game as well as adding new quests and upgrades.
There is no way a business the size of Mythic could run long term if it wasnt profitable(or had a bussiness model that promised profit eventually).

Giving the example of a hgame that hasnt even been released is NOT evidense that your business modle is viable - get a clue.



Like I said the MMORP model is definetly not for all players - but the level of quality it provides and many players DO want is not possible with out a fee.


And I almost forgot, based on what that other guy said - yes he was deluded. He actually thought his ability to run a server for 12 people playing a game had a relation to the running a MMORP.