Zeal for all character types
#1
I've always been a fan of melee variants, and with 1.10, we have the ultimate weapon for them......Passion. I liked reading MongoJerry's adventures of a melee sorceress in Hell.

Set in a phase blade, it can be quite fast. However, I'd like to know how fast is it?

For a sorceress
http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weapon...hp?lang=english
Character Sorceress
Weapon Phase Blade / Phasenklinge
Skill Standard
IAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 13 1.9
10 % 12 2
24 % 11 2.2
48 % 10 2.5

And for a druid
Character Druid
Weapon Phase Blade / Phasenklinge
Skill Standard
IAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 16 1.5
3 % 15 1.6
13 % 14 1.7
24 % 13 1.9
44 % 12 2
72 % 11 2.2

But what about Zeal? Would I just use the paladins zeal table with no fanatacism, since it originally was a paladin only skill? (well, besides charges on gloves and weapons).

Character Paladin
Weapon Phase Blade / Phasenklinge
Skill Zeal
IAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 6 4.1
13 % 5 5
72 % 4 6.2
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#2
My imprecise observation of my Enchantress indicates that Zeal swing speed isn't any faster than Normal Attack. It's the uninterruptibility that gives it such great value.
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#3
Well, if the game is using the Zeal breakpoints from a paladin, it could make a big difference.

Character Paladin
Weapon Phase Blade / Phasenklinge
Skill Zeal
IAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 6 4.1
13 % 5 5
72 % 4 6.2


Character Paladin
Weapon Phase Blade / Phasenklinge
Skill Standard
IAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 11 2.2
8 % 10 2.5
24 % 9 2.7
54 % 8 3.1


So has anyone looked this up in the game code?
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#4
Yes, I have looked at it some and you may not like the answer much. To be blunt and to the point, the calculators out there have some serious flaws out there for figuring some of the base speeds of using different weapon with certain character to start off with, much less when they are using a special skill like Zeal.

The game uses primarily data from animdata.d2 and certain IAS values for computing what frames to end up displaying (and from that is what you end up using to figure the frames per attack). The problem is that in some cases the data from animdata.d2 does not correctly match up with what is actually happening in the game. The formula that is typically used for figuring the frames per attack is

Frames = {256*(Base + 1)/[(100 + EIAS)*256/100]} - 1
EIAS = IAS/(1+IAS/120) - WSM + SIAS

which was derived emperically along with the Base speeds of different characters using a WSM=0 and IAS=0. From the information that was gained from others that looked at some of the animation routines (like Hammerman) and from decoding the animdata.d2 file, some of the factors were found to be actually the following:

the (Base+1) is FramesPerDirection factor from the animdata.d2 file.

the second 256 foctor in the first formula is actually the AnimationSpeed factor and may not always have a 256 value.

This would make the formulas more correctly be

Frames = {256*(FramesPerDirection)/[(100 + EIAS)*AnimationSpeed/100]} - 1
EIAS = IAS/(1+IAS/120) - WSM + SIAS

Now for the bad part.
A sorceress using a weapon like a sword is using animation type 1hs. From the empirically measured rates this is a 17 frame action. But in the animdata.d2 file we find

CofName_FramesPerDirection_AnimationSpeed_0_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9_10_11_12_13_14_15_16_17_18_19
SOA11HS_20_________________256____________0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0__0__1__0__0__0__0__0__0__0
SOA21HS_20_________________256____________0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0__0__1__0__0__0__0__0__0__0

the other trailing stuff is for when I get to the Zeal usage

The paladins on the other hand is normally listed as having a 14 frame 1hs attack and has his data like this.

CofName_FramesPerDirection_AnimationSpeed_0_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9_10_11_12_13_14
PAA11HS_15_________________256____________0_0_0_0_0_0_0_1_0_0_0__0__0__0__0
PAA21HS_15_________________256____________0_0_0_0_0_0_0_1_0_0_0__0__0__0__0


If you run the numbers the paladins attack will come up correctly, but the sorceress will end up with a 19 frame base attack instead of the 17 frames that can be measured. There is something extra being done in the DLLs to modify either the EIAS value or the AnimationSpeed for some of the characters based on their attack mode. An early look at this was just started at the Phrozen Keep here (about a month after I first noticed the problem).
http://phrozenkeep.it-point.com/forum/view...e76c1704a61bcd9

I only did a good look at three characters at this point; the barbarian, amazon and sorceress. All the barabarian animations seem to match up correctly accross all types of actions. The amazon and sorceress match up for their casting and missile usage animations. But neither of them match correctly for any of their melee animations. It is worth noting to other that have not had a chance to dig through the files that when say an amazon is using a javelin that the same animation is used for both the melee and the throwing of the javelin. Considering that the frames measure out to be 12 and 15 respectively points to how much of an hidden adjustment is being done.

Now for the Zeal aspect. The zeal skill uses a 100% rollback of the animtion counter to do the repeated portions of the strikes. The rollback happens when the game gets to or past the frame on the action that is designated as the action frame for that attack. In the above listing that is what all those trailing 0's and 1's are for; the 1's indicate to the game that the melee attack is to take place at that point in the action. For a paladins 1hs attack this point is at what was empirically derived for the zeal repeat animation factor. For a sorceress the attack frame is considerably latter in the animation (overall and in realative proportion to the total length). But due to not having the correct factors to apply to determine what the actual animations lengths are it is hard to pin down an exact speed for this and in particular just what the IAS breakpoints are going to end up being.

While I had tried some quick 'kludge' factors in the formulas (a hidden SIAS modifier, a percent scaled EIAS and a rescaled AnimationSpeed) they all fell apart the farther I got from WSM=0 and IAS=0 when doing the testing. The best fit came from a hidden SIAS setting, but even that was not too good (off by about 30% at one point in the testing). And the standard formula fared the worst by the way.
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#5
Yeah, I don't like the answer much......... :)

So no guesses as to what the breakpoints might be? Someone over at the battle.net forums said a sorcs zeal speed with a passion phase blade was 10/8/8/8/8. Close, or way off?

Quote:While I had tried some quick 'kludge' factors in the formulas (a hidden SIAS modifier, a percent scaled EIAS and a rescaled AnimationSpeed) they all fell apart the farther I got from WSM=0 and IAS=0 when doing the testing. The best fit came from a hidden SIAS setting, but even that was not too good (off by about 30% at one point in the testing). And the standard formula fared the worst by the way.
I know the formulas fell apart, but I just wish I could get a glimpse of the approximate bp's.
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#6
Oh.....my poor english and computer knowledge got me crazy... :( A simple answer will be better.
thanks in advance.
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#7
I have updated the post at PhrozenKeep with some new information.

Well the game sets the starting frame for Amazon and Sorceress to 1 or 2
This is the table extract from D2Commmon.dll

Table - Starting Frame
WClass.... Ama......... Sor...........Nec..........Pal........... Bar...........Dru.......... Ass
0..............1..............1..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
Bow......... 0..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
1hs...........2..............2..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
1ht...........2..............2..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
stf............2..............2..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
2hs...........2..............2..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
2ht...........0..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0
xbw..........0..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0..............0

Then correct formula (using your naming convention) is
Frames= {256*(FramesPerDirection-StartingFrame)/[(100 + EIAS)*AnimationSpeed/100]} - 1
EIAS = IAS/(1+IAS/120) - WSM + SIAS
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#8
hypothetic answer :D
I try to understand Rollback
2 cases

CASE 1

Ok for sorceress we have the following formula

If Rollback is the same for Sorceress then
Frames-->
Frames= {256*((FramesPerDirection-StartingFrame)*Rollback/100)/[(100 + EIAS)*AnimationSpeed/100]} - 1
Frames= {256*(17)/[(100 + EIAS)*256/100]} - 1
Frames= {256*(17)/[(100 + EIAS)*256/100]} - 1
Rollback is 100% for Zeal

Without IAS AND WSM=0 it's 17
With 100 IAS it's 11
Does it match what you have experimented ?

Case 2
Formula for Zeal is
Frames= {256*((ActionFrame-StartingFrame)*Rollback*/100)/[(100 + EIAS)*AnimationSpeed/100]} - 1
Then formula is
Sorceress Frames={256*(12-2)/[(100 + EIAS)*256/100]} - 1

Without IAS and WSM=0 it's 9 Frames
With 100% IAS it's 6 frames

Is it Better ?
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#9
I haven't really experimented with it yet. I've been playing my melee elummoner druid (very successful in Hell with a Thorns merc), and he's the one that currently has the Passion phase blade. The melee sorc is my next project.

But I really appreciate the feedback
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#10
If I had the spare runes i'd try "Passion" in a Champion sword on a Barbarian. -10 WSM and 25% IAS means he'd hit the last breakpoint if he decided to whirl.

I wonder how fast he'd zeal? According to the german weapon speed calculator he'd have a 13 FPA normal attack / bash / stun. 35 more IAS would get him down to 11 FPA norm attack.

Since I don't have any animation data I have no chance of figuring out how fast this Barb would zeal. Doh!

Out of interest.. what happens if a dual wielding Barb zeals? Does he swing both weapons, or just one.. and if so, which one?

(Edit: Changed whirl to zeal [bolded])
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#11
Quote:Out of interest.. what happens if a dual wielding Barb zeals? Does he swing both weapons, or just one.. and if so, which one?

I think you can be pretty sure that it will only use one weapon, just as when a barb duel wields, and uses the bash skill, only one weapon (the 'primary' weapon) is used.

Of course, I don't exactly recall if the order you equip the weapons, or the slot placement of the weapons determines the 'primary' weapon. Just try it out on a duel wielding barb, with a skill selected. it will only list the damage for one of your (2) weapons, and that is the weapon that will be used when you attack.

I think that yes, you could equip a passion sword in one hand, and say, a beast weapon in the other hand, and zeal with the beast weapon. As long as you pay attention to which weapon is 'primary'. Kind of a waste of the duel weild though, when you could just be frenzying of doubleswinging. Too bad.
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#12
If someone can get me a 4 socket phase blade I would say how well this works on a sorc. I've been hunting for one and cubing nonsocketed ones for my sorc for quite some time now. I've gotten many 2 sockets 3 sockets and 6 sockets but never 4. :angry:
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#13
Sir_Die_Alot - Hey man, good to see your name. I haven't seen you around the Battle.net forums in a while.

I actually got the phase blade for my elummoner from Hell cows. I kept on going in cow games after the timer showed around 10 minutes on the clock, and running around looking for phase blades. I found a normal unsocketed one after about 1-2 hours (yeesh), and used the cube recipe on it.

There's a little caveat in the description of the cube recipe.

1 Ral Rune + 1 Amn Rune + 1 Perfect Amethyst + Normal Weapon = Socketed Weapon of same type
The number of sockets created will vary. The item must be normal and unsocketed. Low-quality items and superior items do not work. The item gets 1-6 sockets, randomly. However, the number of sockets is then restricted by the maximum number of sockets that base item with that ilvl can have. For example, if you have an item that can only have 2 sockets, there's a 5/6 chance of getting 2 sockets and a 1/6 chance of getting 1 socket.

So I'm wondering if a phase blades ilvl in hell cows restricts it to 4 sockets? I dunno, it was only 1 try, but it would be nice if it was true.
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#14
I'm aware of the recipe that's why I said I've attempted to cube one. About 5 of my attempts have been from hell cows. I've even turned up a lightsaber looking for normal phase blades. :wacko: :blink:
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#15
Unfortunately you will not be able to use the game's socket limits effectively here.
Phase Blades have 3/4/6 max sockets, meaning if they have ilvl up to 24 they get 3, up to 40 they get 4, and above they get 6 max.
So it would be ideal to use one between ilvl 25 and 40.
Trouble is, you can't get a white Phase Blade with ilvl so low. No monsters in that range can drop Phase Blades and no recipes that give ilvls of that range will produce a non-magic weapon.
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#16
Minor nit:
The socket brackets are 1-25, 26-40 and 41+. So a phase blade with ilvl 25 would be placed in the first one, not the second one.
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#17
Raziel can you link to that calculator? I finally was able to make a Passion phase blade however the only "german" calculator I know of does not allow you to enter zeal for a non paladin. I'd like to check if their results sit right with my sorceress. :wub:
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