Mana points refreshing...

[Disaster(IB)]

Welcome.
I am writing this post because I need to sort a problem, which is quite common around Polish Diablo I players, who play as a Sorcerors. Basically, Polish players are used to playing duels between Sorcerers without drinking any mana or rejuvenation potions, and using Mana Shield spell. Most of them have above 1100mp, so it is possible to have a good fight :D in this way. But there are many dishonest players, who drink mana potions (so they cheat other, honorable players), and win with them. It is very hard to prove, that the enemy drank a potion, because he's under effect of mana shield spell and it's impossible to see, if he indeed drank the potion. It would be possible using Diablosaver (popular scanner program that shows other players stats, equip etc.), but information about amount of actual (not max, but current) mana points is sent only at the beginning of the game, when players enters it. This makes players very untrusty, because they have no guarantee that the fight with be played honorably. And my question is: is it possible, in any way (changing game files, making dat files and running them with Diablohack) to make opponent's mana points refresh? Actually, I mean, is there anybody who would be able to do such a modification? I can assume, that such program would have to be used by both players, but this is not a problem actually. I only need some technical information and help about that.
Thanks in advance,

[Obi2Kenobi]

There is no sort of hack/cheat support here. Meaning any scanner programs, or Diablohack.

[LemmingofGlory]

If you don't trust someone to play fairly, don't duel them.

-Lem

[Nystul]

There is no sort of hack/cheat support here. Meaning any scanner programs, or Diablohack.

I think it's less about the tools and more about how you use them. DHack is linked from this site, and maybe even played a role in why this site exists. If a scanner were only used for PvP purposes in which all parties use the same scanner and agree to the same set of rules, perhaps that would be considered an acceptable topic for discussion (although people might choose not to be very helpful, knowing that any help given could just be used to cheat).

But as Lemming says, if you can't trust the guy there is no point in dueling him. If someone really wants to cheat without you knowing in Diablo, they can do it pretty easily regardless of how much monitoring is done.

[Disaster(IB)]

It looks you don't get the point. It will be quite difficult to explain it, but I'll try.
Polish D1 scene is as live as it was 2, or more, years ago. There are more than two hundred people playing, there are about 25-30 clans. On weekend evenings there are very often more than 30 people in Diablo POL-1 channel. And most of this people are playing D1 on the net only for dueling. So you can imagine, it's pretty hard just to play duels with members of your clan, and some other that are trusted. Moreover, there ale some tournaments, and clan wars. Actually, this is the main reason for dealing with using too many potions, if the rules say you cannot use them at all (we call it "sucking" :blink: ). As I said, it's hard to show how the situation looks, but basically people want to confront their dueling skills with others (in tournaments or clan wars) and to have clear view of the situation, it would be good to know that your opponent doesn't cheat you (cheating in meaning of playing unfair, not using cheats).
Anyway, my aim is to find someone who can help with doins such modification, that mana points of other palyers would be refreshing and would be visible, on the same basis as hit points are. I don't consider this as cheating, but if noone can help me, I'll try to search somewhere else. Thanks for your anwsers, but they are not a solution for the problem.

[Yogi_Baar]

Use such rules that players aren't allowed to carry any potions, books or money when entering a duel game. Get an impartial judge (or a partial one for each dueler) to scan both parties and make sure they don't talk to any vendors in the game. All 3 (or 4) should enter the desired dungeon level, with the judge(s) clearing the level (or room, or whatever) and picking up any dropped potions. Then the judges cast a guardian and retreat from the level (or leave the game, if that doesn't remove the guardian).

Should work.

But for crying out loud, switch to IronMan tournaments. Dueling is... well, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

[LemmingofGlory]

It looks you don't get the point.

No, because...

Moreover, there ale some tournaments, and clan wars.

...that's pretty much what I assumed you were doing.

basically people want to confront their dueling skills with others ... it would be good to know that your opponent doesn't cheat you.

From what I've seen: If players don't trust each other to not cheat, and they have no clear way of enforcing it, arguments will emerge from sore losers. And even if you have some realiable method of checking that everyone is playing by the rules, some people will insist the judges are corrupt.

If the duels were all in good fun, it shouldn't be necessary to have safeguards against cheating folks. From your description, the duels are being used in the usual manner: "My clan can beat up your clan." Schoolyard mentality. I don't see that anyone gains from that.

If you trust your opponent, you can grow to admire them. If you don't, you're just fighting.

-Lem

[Attika]

Ok, this is pretty low tech, but would this work?

At the start of each duel, have someone ( a third person?) purchase and drop 48 red potions, and do this twice (so, two piles of 48 reds).

Then have each of the two duelers step up and pick up all 48 reds, emptying their inventory of whatever other items they have.

Picking up 48 reds insures that they do not have any blues either in their backpacks or their belts. All they now have is reds.

Then go straight into the dungeon and have the duel, perhaps via the third person's Town Portal?

Work for you?

Attika

[LemmingofGlory]

Picking up 48 reds insures that they do not have any blues either in their backpacks or their belts. All they now have is reds.

They could drink potions as they pick them up. It would have to be something non-consumable. I'd suggest using 10 TFoS instead.

-Lem

[Disaster(IB)]

All the things that were written here are those, that we are using now. And they don't work, because people have learnt how to go over them... There are some people who are still trying to find a way how to know if players obbey the rules, but there will never be 100% guarantee that it works. My main purpose for creating this topic was to find out if someone can help with doing modifications to make mana points refreshing and visible for other players. Believe me or not, we were trying a lot of other precautions (jugdes, particular rules etc.) and it seems that the only thing that can deal with the problem is what I'm looking for.

[Selby]

Diablo is too easy to cheat at for what you are asking. The only way I know for you to ever be able determine that your opponents are not cheating is to have them all sitting in the same room on 4 different computers. Anyone who cheats gets an instant boot to the head from everyone else. That should stop cheating. Not practical, but it's pretty much the only way.

IronMan tournaments are more fun than dueling if you ask me. Or playing Doom or Quake. Diablo just wasn't meant to be a dueling game and to ask how to make it 100% certain that there is no cheating occurring is going to get you nowhere. Either trust the people you are fighting with to fight fair or don't trust them and don't fight with them. This argument goes back to the very beginning of Diablo, only play with people you trust and don't complain when you don't as you know the risks....

[Nick[LOTR]]

Yep, I used to cheat before I went legit, and yep, there was a cheat that showed almost all of the players stats when you highlighted them. Seriously, it showed hp/mp/attributes. I still remember what Dat its on too, but of course, I'm not going to post such information because it would cause mucho flames/ban, I am probablly already going to be flamed for what I am going to say next:

If you want the information, PM me and I can hook you up, but it would to be used just for those purposes of making sure people are honest for your duels. AND I can't gurantee its totally clean, beacause of course, its a hack.

OR

I can just get the dat myself, copy the code, and then send the code to you. All you would have to then is open DHack and run the code(dat).

I have not played diablo in...a year? But, I still lurk pretty constantly and I think this would be a pretty good fix to your troubles.

Admins feal free to delete this if you 'deem' this post inappropriate.

I'm out,
Nick

[LemmingofGlory]

Admins feal free to delete this if you 'deem' this post inappropriate.

If you thought the post was treading on thin ice, why not just PM him and avoid this altogether?

...showed almost all of the players stats when you highlighted them. Seriously, it showed hp/mp/attributes.

This is more of a "utility," perhaps analgous to a dat that'd allow you to view current/max monster hps. I don't think it impacts gameplay significantly, so I see this as fairly benign. If it helps him, good for him.

-Lem

[Nightwind]

If you thought the post was treading on thin ice, why not just PM him and avoid this altogether?



This is more of a "utility," perhaps analgous to a dat that'd allow you to view current/max monster hps. I don't think it impacts gameplay significantly, so I see this as fairly benign. If it helps him, good for him.

-Lem

If he had sent it as a PM, it could have looked like he was avoiding something, a confrontation perhaps.

As it is mild enough to be harmless, and put to a positive use, I also agree he should be able to recive it, e-mailed or such, just not posted here.

And yes, it strikes me as a rather useful tool, that dat, for a few differnt kinds of testing, so I can understand why it was made.

I would say that only ONE person should use the dat in the tourny, and that person be a neutral party, and also serve as judge.

[Yogi_Baar]

I would say that only ONE person should use the dat in the tourny, and that person be a neutral party, and also serve as judge.

... as the loser of the duel would probably (given the usual duelist behaviour) accuse the judge of being partial. I still think that two judges, one for each side, are a must when it comes to such paranoid dueling with a if-you-beat-me-you-were-probably-cheating attitude.

[Jarulf]

All the things that were written here are those, that we are using now. And they don't work, because people have learnt how to go over them... There are some people who are still trying to find a way how to know if players obbey the rules, but there will never be 100% guarantee that it works. My main purpose for creating this topic was to find out if someone can help with doing modifications to make mana points refreshing and visible for other players. Believe me or not, we were trying a lot of other precautions (jugdes, particular rules etc.) and it seems that the only thing that can deal with the problem is what I'm looking for.

No, you can't change your own computer to make the other computer behave in new ways, such as showing accurate non manipulable mana values. It is simply impossible since each person run their own version of the game on their own computers. Seriously, if you can't trust other people not absuing duel "rules", the only way (safe from sitting in the same room) is to not due. No matter what you modify, you have no way to see if the other person actually use the modification and if he do, does not use additional modifications to overcome it. Examples on how to cheat anyway:

Create mana potions at will in inventory (not telling other computers). Modify mana directly (not telling the other computers, I will stop writing this). Having only successfull "hits" actually be transmitted and thus making it impossible to actually "count" spells and mana on other computers to match. Having autotarget spells so that mana is used more efficiently. Having random numbers always be max (not above so it can be detected). And so on. All the above (plus many more straight forward cheats) still rwquire ADDITIONAL modification on your own computer to actually spot it.

To conclude, there is really nothing you can do as the other player have full control of their own computer and game. Either you trust, or you don't. Sad but the truth.