The mechanics of /players x

[Thrugg]

This has come up in a discussion on another forum and I realised I didn't know the answer beyond my in-game experience. Would like to get a more robust answer, but that involves more reading of the code than I know how to do.

Basically the question is, exactly what changes if you change /players setting (or if other people join the game) between when a monster spawns and when it is killed?
I assume this comes down to, what is stored in the data structure that is created when a monster spawns?

If the current number of players is stored, then when the monster is killed it would presumably reward (drops and exp) as it "should", relative to how hard it was to kill.
If the current number of players is not stored, then any information that is needed at kill-time would need to be stored, or else the monster will reward based on the setting at the end.
I can imagine the exp value of the monster might get stored at spawn time, but storing a no-drop value seems a bit far-fetched.

I read through the description of the ptUnit structure at Phrozen Keep, but there is too much to take in at once - I may have missed it. I saw that the current number of players is stored in ptGame (obviously) but did not see it in any ptUnit structure.

For the layman, I'm essentially asking if it is possible to spawn eg Baal in a one player game with one-player hit points, sliver him, and then switch to players 8 (or have several people suddenly join you) for the kill, and get 8 player exp and/or drops.

[ShadowHM]

For the layman, I'm essentially asking if it is possible to spawn eg Baal in a one player game with one-player hit points, sliver him, and then switch to players 8 (or have several people suddenly join you) for the kill, and get 8 player exp and/or drops.

AFAIK, the short answer is no.

[Obi2Kenobi]

It's all stored at spawn time.

[Ruvanal]

For the layman, I'm essentially asking if it is possible to spawn eg Baal in a one player game with one-player hit points, sliver him, and then switch to players 8 (or have several people suddenly join you) for the kill, and get 8 player exp and/or drops.

You will get the HP and experience as a one player game and the drop (NoDrop calculation) as an 8 player game. The NoDrop is looked up at the time the drop is being generate from the ptGame structure, not from the ptUnit structure.

[Thrugg]

Thanks Ruvanal, I thought that was most likely the case.
Now I have to decide whether I want to actually answer this question because I have no doubt it will start a wave of people changing settings right before the kill. In 1.09 most boss runners were barbs and sorcs and needed to pay attention right up to the kill. Now that many people use summon necros they are typically sitting around waiting for their minions to do the work and have plenty of time to type things. A shame that this much loved addition to SP play is vulnerable to abuse.

[bigeyedbug]

Guhhh. Another crapcode exploit. Not that most people would care about single-player sleaze anyway. It seems a bit unwieldy to try it on the realms--assuming that it even works the same way.

[Ruvanal]

This exploit has actually been know since the /players X command was first put into v1.09; just not widely known.


Get close enough to do the initial spawning with any character, you do not need to be engaged in combat, then do the switch to /players 8. Against act end bosses, i think that you will find that there is little difference in the amount of items dropped. The base NoDrop value is low to start with and there are 7 picks out of max of 6 allowed to actually end up dropping.

[WarriorWalrus]

[COLOR=blue]

Guhhh.  Another crapcode exploit.   Not that most people would care about single-player sleaze anyway. 

Legitament single players do care, the same way that legitament realm players care about dupes. It is unfortunate that the /players coding oversight is there, along with leaving the -seed and -act5 commands in the final compiled code. :(

[Professor Frink]

Legitament single players do care, the same way that legitament realm players care about dupes.  It is unfortunate that the /players coding oversight is there, along with leaving the -seed and -act5 commands in the final compiled code.  :(

Whoa, slow the crazy train down. Since when is using /players in SP not legitimate?

-- frink

[Jarulf]

This exploit has actually been know since the /players X command was first put into v1.09; just not widely known.

By the way, the scaling for players in game of CB is done at hit time, that is, the ammount of life is initially based on the monsters current HP (which was set based on players in game at time of spawning) but is then modified for number of players in game at the moment you hit it to scale "back" to one player. In that case, spawning with 8 players, and hiting with one, will give you no penalty so to speak. Another sleeze although perhaps hardet to pull off.

[AssA]

Whoa, slow the crazy train down.  Since when is using /players in SP not legitimate?

-- frink

Using it is acceptable, but ABusing it to get better drops isn't.

[Grayloch]

Whoa, slow the crazy train down.  Since when is using /players in SP not legitimate?

-- frink

No one is saying that using the /players command in SP is not legit. The issue being discussed here is spawning a monster at one difficulty setting (i.e. /players 1) and then changing the difficulty setting to a higher one (e.g. /players 8) after the monster is spawned to gain the rewards of the higher setting while dealing with the monster at the difficulty of the lower setting.

-G.

[WarriorWalrus]

Whoa, slow the crazy train down.  Since when is using /players in SP not legitimate?

-- frink

Sorry I wasn't more clear. Using /players is legitimate, I do think that switiching mid fight to boost drops is an exploit that should be avoided.

fair enough?

[Ruvanal]

This exploit has actually been know since the /players X command was first put into v1.09; just not widely known.

By the way, the scaling for players in game of CB is done at hit time, that is, the ammount of life is initially based on the monsters current HP (which was set based on players in game at time of spawning) but is then modified for number of players in game at the moment you hit it to scale "back" to one player. In that case, spawning with 8 players, and hiting with one, will give you no penalty so to speak. Another sleeze although perhaps hardet to pull off.

I am not sure where you are getting crushing blow effects into this. The question was about the life of the monster at spawning (player=1 setting) verses the way the NoDrop value would be set at time of death (player=8).

[adeyke]

As I understand it, that was just an aside about another, similar, quirk with the /players x command. Apparently, if you first set it to /players 8, the monster will have a lot of life. If you CB'd it then, the damage would be scaled down by the same factor as the life was scaled up. However, if you set it to /players 1 before CBing it, it won't scale the CB damage down (as there's no scaling for /players 1), meaning that you'd be doing a lot more damage to the monster.

So if almost all of your damage comes from CB, you could exploit this quirk by giving the monsters the life and experience of /players 8 while still killing them as quickly as with /players 1. This would only be for extra experience, not drops.

[Professor Frink]

Using /players is legitimate, I do think that switiching mid fight to boost drops is an exploit that should be avoided.

Ah, yes, I misunderstood your comment. Sorry.

edit: spelling

[Jarulf]

This exploit has actually been know since the /players X command was first put into v1.09; just not widely known.

By the way, the scaling for players in game of CB is done at hit time, that is, the ammount of life is initially based on the monsters current HP (which was set based on players in game at time of spawning) but is then modified for number of players in game at the moment you hit it to scale "back" to one player. In that case, spawning with 8 players, and hiting with one, will give you no penalty so to speak. Another sleeze although perhaps hardet to pull off.

I am not sure where you are getting crushing blow effects into this. The question was about the life of the monster at spawning (player=1 setting) verses the way the NoDrop value would be set at time of death (player=8).

It was just another side effect of "manipulating" the game through the /players command. CB uses the number of players in the game to scale BACK the ammount of life removed.